War in Ukraine

[AM64]

You need to read this. I posted this story last year when it first came out. This is from a British website (Royal United Services Institute).

The Return of Industrial Warfare

Here's another interesting look. The problems go back a very long time. Carter, Reagan, and Clinton administrations were up to their eyeballs in screwing stuff up. Reagan had some good ideas but went off in stupid directions sometimes with deregulation - perhaps his declining mental skills couldn't cope with renegades in the administration. Especially beginning with McNamara under LBJ there have been some real clowns involved with evolving military weapons systems and their purchasing. Seems like the process has lost all touch with reality and is completely unsustainable. Congrats to the US military for making war too expensive to fight ... unfortunately not so much for the other guys.

 

[AM64]

How many shells did they have to start with?

Do the WW1 variety count?

 

[Firebirdparts]

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I recall picking up a mag in a doctor's office about Y2K that had an article predicting various things and it said based on economic conditions, expect a war. For the USA, it was just right around the corner.

But for sure, the government has lost all reason wrt paying money. It's unconscionable and unsustainable and some of it of course is abusive to people at home and abroad. When I was a boy, people in congress literally feared their constituency. They really did. Not anymore.

P.S. I have been trying for some time to understand WWII better as it was fought in Russia. I just got through reading a two volume diary called "Mortar gunner on the Eastern Front" and that was really worth reading. I've read 4 books on Operation Barbarossa but having not fought in world war 2, I wasn't really able to understand what the real limitations were. Ammunition was a serious problem for the nazis all the time. Even if you had plenty of it in a supply dump, just getting it up to the front line during battle was a huge deal. but in Russia, the war went so fast, there weren't any supply dumps until a long time later.

In World War 1 they built little railroads on the battlefield, but the lines were stationary for a long time. I have a great book on the causes of WW1 by Margaret McMillen and in there it says that nobody thought the planned expenditure of shells would be sustainable for a long war. They found a way somehow.

 

[AM64]

To quote Eddie Murphy:

Popov Munitions Storage Facility?

 

[Firebirdparts]

So now the narrative is that they are not only running out of shells, but running out of tanks?

I don't care about all the moron stuff here, but clearly that's a dumb idea. The idea that a country the size of Russia "can produce 200 tanks a year" is something that no sane person would believe.

I don't mean that in the "the world is run by lizard people" blubbering idiot kind of way. I just mean Russia's a big country and they can build tanks if they need to.

 

[AM64]

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I recall picking up a mag in a doctor's office about Y2K that had an article predicting various things and it said based on economic conditions, expect a war. For the USA, it was just right around the corner.

But for sure, the government has lost all reason wrt paying money. It's unconscionable and unsustainable and some of it of course is abusive to people at home and abroad. When I was a boy, people in congress literally feared their constituency. They really did. Not anymore.

P.S. I have been trying for some time to understand WWII better as it was fought in Russia. I just got through reading a two volume diary called "Mortar gunner on the Eastern Front" and that was really worth reading. I've read 4 books on Operation Barbarossa but having not fought in world war 2, I wasn't really able to understand what the real limitations were. Ammunition was a serious problem for the nazis all the time. Even if you had plenty of it in a supply dump, just getting it up to the front line during battle was a huge deal. but in Russia, the war went so fast, there weren't any supply dumps until a long time later.

In World War 1 they built little railroads on the battlefield, but the lines were stationary for a long time. I have a great book on the causes of WW1 by Margaret McMillen and in there it says that nobody thought the planned expenditure of shells would be sustainable for a long war. They found a way somehow.

As I recall the German rail lines were a different gauge than those continuing on into Russia which didn't help matters. Beyond that Russia is a huge country - the further the battle lines go the longer the logistics trail. That means transporting munitions and weapons a long way into a partially destroyed and unfriendly country. Infrastructure like roads, rail lines, and bridges would have been damaged and fuel to move anything else would also have to be transported. The deeper you go the the need for more fuel would replace space allocation for weapons and munitions. Russians still had insurgents/partisans fighting behind lines disrupting logistics, and airpower flying short distances to bomb German shipping. Invading a country like Russia would seem like punching a pillow; it just absorbs the blow and collapses around you. Just not the place you want to invade - complete nightmare.

 

[AM64]

I don't care about all the moron stuff here, but clearly that's a dumb idea. The idea that a country the size of Russia "can produce 200 tanks a year" is something that no sane person would believe.

I don't mean that in the "the world is run by lizard people" blubbering idiot kind of way. I just mean Russia's a big country and they can build tanks if they need to.

I believe some of the issue isn't the hardware as much as the electronics part of the tanks - not absolutely sure about that. A lot like our assembly lines could crank out cars and trucks during Covid but didn't have the necessary integrated circuits to complete assembly. That can also affect the machinery to build the tanks if parts to maintain the automated process are unavailable. Sanctions really can cause disruption even if there's leakage. A lot has to happen behind the scenes to make things go right ... the "for want of a nail" kind of thing.

 

[TVOLS]

The Drive had a article about Hurricanes found in Ukraine. Then went on to talk about lend leases and how much the US and Britain supplied Russian during WWII.

Hurricane Fighters From WWII Unearthed In Ukrainian Forest (thedrive.com)

 

[evillawyer]

Did anybody else see the compressed cube the Russians made of their dead soldiers to compact them for easy transport?

"If we could just be more like them." -- Ras

 

[AM64]

The Drive had a article about Hurricanes found in Ukraine. Then went on to talk about lend leases and how much the US and Britain supplied Russian during WWII.

Hurricane Fighters From WWII Unearthed In Ukrainian Forest (thedrive.com)

When I read the article yesterday what stuck out was this:

Lend-Lease aid arrived free of charge, with arms to be used until returned or destroyed. In practice, most of the equipment was destroyed, but anything retained after the end of the agreement had to be paid for. It’s almost certain that the Hurricanes were concealed in the forest after the war to avoid these costs.

I hadn't realized there was a way out of the debt except potentially forgiveness or sloppy records, and, of course, the Russians would take advantage - likely not the only people to do so. The Drive has some very good articles.

 

[Hunerwadel]

I don't care about all the moron stuff here, but clearly that's a dumb idea. The idea that a country the size of Russia "can produce 200 tanks a year" is something that no sane person would believe.

I don't mean that in the "the world is run by lizard people" blubbering idiot kind of way. I just mean Russia's a big country and they can build tanks if they need to.

After what we have seen in the last year and a half I wouldn't overestimate Russia.

 

[Sandman 423]

What affect would Russia taking the Ukraine have on the rest of the world us?

 

[NorthDallas40]

I don't care about all the moron stuff here, but clearly that's a dumb idea. The idea that a country the size of Russia "can produce 200 tanks a year" is something that no sane person would believe.

I don't mean that in the "the world is run by lizard people" blubbering idiot kind of way. I just mean Russia's a big country and they can build tanks if they need to.

As long as they can get parts and have the labor they likely could. I’d guess 200 isn’t a big number for Russia under normal circumstances. However right now they can’t get parts and they don’t have the labor either not like prior to the war anyway. There are confirmed instances of T-72’s showing up with their old gen analog thermal sights because Thales won’t sell them the focal planes used in their newest generation sights

 

[NorthDallas40]

What affect would Russia taking the Ukraine have on the rest of the world us?

Probably not a bit. So going forward we should avoid making commitments to assist defense of their territory and sovereignty if we have no intention of backing that up right?

 

[evillawyer]

 

[Septic]

 

[evillawyer]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol, please lecture us again about the morally moribund west.

 

[KB5252]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol, please lecture us again about the morally moribund west.

Those were obviously gay Nazis who's heads were dislodged from their bodies due to excessive drug use.

 

[evillawyer]

Pardon the pun, but I guess not everything is copacetic

 

[Burhead]

The US will announce cluster munitions to Ukraine tomorrow.

 

[evillawyer]

The US will announce cluster munitions to Ukraine tomorrow.

Mega sads from @Rasputin_Vol. Should we see if we can get a wellness check ordered for him?

 

[Burhead]

 

[AM64]

While looking up info about the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Plant, I came across this International Atomic Energy Agency website. The last few updates have been daily. The IAEA apparently has a team near the site, they have inspected recently, and they have requested access for further inspections.

International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) experts present at Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) have in recent days and weeks inspected parts of the facility – including some sections of the perimeter of the large cooling pond – and have also conducted regular walkdowns across the site, so far without observing any visible indications of mines or explosives, Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said today.

The IAEA experts have requested additional access that is necessary to confirm the absence of mines or explosives at the site, Director General Grossi said. In particular, access to the rooftops of reactor units 3 and 4 is essential, as well as access to parts of the turbine halls and some parts of the cooling system at the plant, he added.

Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine | IAEA

 

[tvolsfan]

 

[AM64]

The building with the white blobs would hold secondary side equipment, control room, and the turbine generator. The turbine generator will be oriented along the building's long axis which puts the axis perpendicular to the containment building (the round structure at the end). The containment building houses the reactor, steam generators, pressurizer, and reactor coolant pumps and associated primary coolant system equipment. Roughly equivalent to a US Pressurized Water Reactor with the exception that our steam generators are upright and the VVER1000 steam generators are horizontal. Unless there is a steam generator tube leak, the turbine building will be pretty much free of contamination.