War in Ukraine

#68,576
#68,576
Burhead said:
And show me where you condemned Russian artillery fire that destroyed town after town and resulted in civilians being killed. I must have missed that.
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Any civilians that died as a result of shelling is a tragedy. I'm not sitting here saying that the Russians haven't killed ANY civilians. My 2 points are that:
1. The Russians are calling this a "special military operation" partly because they are trying to minimize civilian casualties. These are people that they are trying to liberate in the east and south. Plus, if they had their way, they would not want to level these cities because it is more to rebuild and you disperse the populations.
2. The Kyiv regime HAS been targeting civilian targets in Donbas since 2014, to the tune of close to 15k killed. In addition to them after the SMO using apartment buildings, hospitals, schools, malls, etc as military staging grounds (human shield tactics). We saw that clearly in Mariupol. I posted the videos and news articles.

So you can GTFOH with you finger wagging. I think this entire thing could have been avoided had the US/NATO stayed out of Ukraine.
 
#68,577
#68,577
Rasputin_Vol said:
Also, are the Russians "targeting" civilians, or are they targeting legitimate military positions that are being established in a manner that makes them "human shields"?

Also, I don't see this same passion when it comes to the US and Israel bombing wedding parties and goatherders.
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First, nice whataboutism at the end. Russians famously perfected that howler of a rhetorical move, so I'm not surprised your little pea brain has sopped it up like Texas toast on gravy. Nice work, comrade!

Second, Russia claims it targeted lviv with precision weapons, so yes, I do think they "targeted" civilians. Or maybe their weapons just aren't worth sh*t and they shouldn't be sending them into heavily populated areas if they don't know what they're gonna hit.
 
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#68,578
#68,578
evillawyer said:
Did they hit an ammo depot? Did they take out military advisors? No and no. They just did their typical Russian terrorism on the civilian population, a campaign that you continue to support because Russia doesn't tolerate gays.
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The Russians stepped up their bombing campaign after last September's Ukrainian counteroffensives and the bombing of the Kerch Bridge and Nordstream pipelines. Since October, they have had continuous bombing. For you to be singling out this one event indicates very clearly that this is a rare event. Because if it was more common, you would have far, far more examples and receipts. And even with your receipts, you have to question them.
 
#68,579
#68,579
evillawyer said:
First, nice whataboutism at the end. Russians famously perfected that howler of a rhetorical move, so I'm not surprised your little pea brain has sopped it up like Texas toast on gravy. Nice work, comrade!
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That comment was in response to the whataboutism @Burhead threw out there about Mariupol and Artemovsk (Bakhmut) when I was talking about cluster munitions. It wasn't a conversation me and you were having. So mind your business.

evillawyer said:
Second, Russia claims it targeted lviv with precision weapons, so yes, I do think they "targeted" civilians. Or maybe their weapons just aren't worth sh*t and they shouldn't be sending them into heavily populated areas if they don't know what they're gonna hit.
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I'll say 2 things:
1. Even with precision weapons, mistakes can happen. Lets not pretend this hasn't happened with the US
2. Maybe the missiles hit their targets as intended for a legitimate military reason. I've shown plenty of examples of the Kyiv regime using civilian buildings for military purposes
 
#68,580
#68,580
Orangeburst said:
At least they are trying to negotiate a peace, which is more than the dipshits in the current administration

And wtf you just had to make it about Trump.
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I did not make it about Trump. It's about the changes in the Repub party since Trump. To deny that is stupid. Repubs were totally Eurocentric through W's administration but that has changed. There is a strong wing in the Repub party now that is actually rooting for Russia in this (see Steve Bannon). That would never have happened in the early 2000s. Did Trump trigger it, yes. But it's become its own school of thought now. That's what Progressive movements do. They coalesce around a person (Huey Long) or concept, but in a short time they fracture over secondary, but real, issues.
 
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#68,581
#68,581
Rasputin_Vol said:
I found out yesterday why they are sending them. Apparently, they are the only 155mm shells they have left to give Ukraine. And you are correct. Many of the bomblets do not explode on initial impact, but are left behind... waiting to be exploded later on by children, civilians, livestock, etc.
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"Vlad... not the livestock."

 
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#68,585
#68,585
Rasputin_Vol said:
That comment was in response to the whataboutism @Burhead threw out there about Mariupol and Artemovsk (Bakhmut) when I was talking about cluster munitions. It wasn't a conversation me and you were having. So mind your business.


I'll say 2 things:
1. Even with precision weapons, mistakes can happen. Lets not pretend this hasn't happened with the US
2. Maybe the missiles hit their targets as intended for a legitimate military reason. I've shown plenty of examples of the Kyiv regime using civilian buildings for military purposes
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Certainly reads like a who's who of Ukrainian military brass, amirite?

 
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#68,588
#68,588
WBO said:
I did not make it about Trump. It's about the changes in the Repub party since Trump. To deny that is stupid. Repubs were totally Eurocentric through W's administration but that has changed. There is a strong wing in the Repub party now that is actually rooting for Russia in this (see Steve Bannon). That would never have happened in the early 2000s. Did Trump trigger it, yes. But it's become its own school of thought now. That's what Progressive movements do. They coalesce around a person (Huey Long) or concept, but in a short time they fracture over secondary, but real, issues.
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Bannon isn’t pro Russia..Trumpers are not pro Russia, just anti globalists and don’t want us involved. Very Busheque in this thought process that one must be with us or against us.
We have leftists in here actually siding with Lindsey Graham and other war hawks and that is as much fundamental change. The left has become what they hated.
 
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#68,589
#68,589
KB5252 said:
Still no foreign troops. It's an important distinction although inconvenient to the agenda your attempting to push.
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As stated, many Democratic nations including US and UK have held elections during war time. Ukraine could find a way. UK was definitely under attack during WW2 and still held elections.
 
#68,590
#68,590
Orangeburst said:
Bannon isn’t pro Russia..Trumpers are not pro Russia, just anti globalists and don’t want us involved. Very Busheque in this thought process that one must be with us or against us.
We have leftists in here actually siding with Lindsey Graham and other war hawks and that is as much fundamental change. The left has become what they hated.
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I am not a Trumper and have fought against the isolanists on here but the anti-Trumoers consider one because I have shown multiple articles citing how Putin would not act under Trump out of fear. They are in denial now so go figure. I don't have dog in fight, I just wanted to set facts straight.
 
#68,592
#68,592
Rasputin_Vol said:
Any civilians that died as a result of shelling is a tragedy. I'm not sitting here saying that the Russians haven't killed ANY civilians. My 2 points are that:
1. The Russians are calling this a "special military operation" partly because they are trying to minimize civilian casualties. These are people that they are trying to liberate in the east and south. Plus, if they had their way, they would not want to level these cities because it is more to rebuild and you disperse the populations.
2. The Kyiv regime HAS been targeting civilian targets in Donbas since 2014, to the tune of close to 15k killed. In addition to them after the SMO using apartment buildings, hospitals, schools, malls, etc as military staging grounds (human shield tactics). We saw that clearly in Mariupol. I posted the videos and news articles.

So you can GTFOH with you finger wagging. I think this entire thing could have been avoided had the US/NATO stayed out of Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Take some of your own advice you hypocrite troll
 
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#68,593
#68,593
volbound1700 said:
As stated, many Democratic nations including US and UK have held elections during war time. Ukraine could find a way. UK was definitely under attack during WW2 and still held elections.
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That's false. The Brits didn't have elections until after the conclusion of both World Wars.
 
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#68,595
#68,595
Orangeburst said:
Bannon isn’t pro Russia..Trumpers are not pro Russia, just anti globalists and don’t want us involved. Very Busheque in this thought process that one must be with us or against us.
We have leftists in here actually siding with Lindsey Graham and other war hawks and that is as much fundamental change. The left has become what they hated.
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A whole bunch of Trumpers are absolutely pro Russia. Definitely not all, but quite a few people clearly are. And more would say it openly if it was socially acceptable to do so.
 
#68,597
#68,597
volbound1700 said:
I am not a Trumper and have fought against the isolanists on here but the anti-Trumoers consider one because I have shown multiple articles citing how Putin would not act under Trump out of fear. They are in denial now so go figure. I don't have dog in fight, I just wanted to set facts straight.
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The issue with the assertion is it assumes a correlation not proven. That’s it. And pardon me for not taking the word of Trump that he was the driver in the lack of invasion from 2016 - 2020.

But what is absolutely clear is none of the prior three admins made any real effort to curb s full out invasion until it occurred after we witnessed the initial aggression in 2014. If it is worth pushing the invaders out in 2022 then it was worth pushing them out in 2014.
 
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#68,598
#68,598
volbound1700 said:
As stated, many Democratic nations including US and UK have held elections during war time. Ukraine could find a way. UK was definitely under attack during WW2 and still held elections.
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No, the UK had a “government of national unity” during World War II and didn’t hold an election until Germany was defeated. And they weren’t under threat in remotely the same way that Ukraine is under threat.
 
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