War in Ukraine

#68,627
#68,627
NorthDallas40 said:
I do think Europe would be leading the whole effort here. They are reaping decades of letting the US handle their defense via their under funding of NATO I believe. Going forward they should correct that. And we saw the shift in funding contrasted in a graph here in the last couple of days. But the major economies of Europe should do more it’s their continent after all
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You find no disagreement here. The fall of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact and the peace dividend that followed which allowed for Western Europe to disarm is one the most tragic events that have lead us to this point.
 
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#68,628
#68,628
Burhead said:
I would be. We can't allow the rules based international order that existed since the end of the Second World War to go away. It will lead to more instability, more wars, more economic issues, and eventually larger conflicts.
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Quite a few catastrophic wars and massacres have occurred because of lack of respect for Eastern Europeans and their land.
 
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#68,629
#68,629
NorthDallas40 said:
I do think Europe would be leading the whole effort here. They are reaping decades of letting the US handle their defense via their under funding of NATO I believe. Going forward they should correct that. And we saw the shift in funding contrasted in a graph here in the last couple of days. But the major economies of Europe should do more it’s their continent after all
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Why didn’t they get their **** together after Georgia?
you know good and well after this is over they go back to cut mode if they even ever hit the 2%, sans the former Eastern bloc nations
 
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#68,630
#68,630
NorthDallas40 said:
Top two hits on my google. Admittedly one is Politico which I know will Homer fairly left. But the Hill is going to be more centric.

No, Trump would not have stopped Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

Opinion | Why Didn’t Putin Invade Under Trump? It Wasn’t Personal.

And on the point you ducked why didn’t Trump act in 2016 to evict the invaders per the agreement we entered in 1994?
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Here is one that proposes both could have been true. However it seems more like they are digging around the original comments. The original comments that I have been asserting is from a former Russian Ambassador that was well schooled on Putin. Either way, Putin did not act with Trump for some reason.

https://theweek.com/politics/101047...played-a-pussycat-during-the-trump-presidency
 
#68,631
#68,631
Orangeburst said:
Why didn’t they get their **** together after Georgia?
you know good and well after this is over they go back to cut mode if they even ever hit the 2%, sans the former Eastern bloc nations
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I can’t say you’re wrong and history in fact sides with your view. But one thing that has shifted is the US desire to stomach the defense of Europe single handedly. We need to stick to our position on funding going forward. If Europe doesn’t respond to guarantee their own security that’s their own damn fault.
 
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#68,632
#68,632
NorthDallas40 said:
I can’t say you’re wrong and history in fact sides with your view. But one thing that has shifted is the US desire to stomach the defense of Europe single handedly. We need to stick to our position on funding going forward. If Europe doesn’t respond to guarantee their own security that’s their own damn fault.
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To be frank, with how inept the Russian military looks, I think Europe could defeat them with the United States
 
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#68,633
#68,633
volbound1700 said:
Here is one that proposes both could have been true. However it seems more like they are digging around the original comments. The original comments that I have been asserting is from a former Russian Ambassador that was well schooled on Putin. Either way, Putin did not act with Trump for some reason.

https://theweek.com/politics/101047...played-a-pussycat-during-the-trump-presidency
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My own opinion is closer to the Hill’s op-Ed. Putin didn’t need to as there was enough strife between Trump and the European leaders that he wasn’t compelled to act then. And I also agreed with a lot of what Trump was pushing on them about especially on NATO funding. But regardless the situation was getting worse not better on Ukraine defense under Trump and Putin had more time to reinforce and collect his prior gains during that time. That’s it.

And frankly Putin was a moron for pushing in 2022. Absolutely nothing was going to be different under the Biden admin. But Putin’s invasion forced that hand. I believe eve handled the whole situation horribly since 2014
 
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#68,635
#68,635
NorthDallas40 said:
Easy. We signed a horribly written open ended agreement we never thought we’d have to back up. That’s our own damn fault.
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How far should we go, cripple this country? Bankrupt future generations? Institute a draft and sacrifice the sons and daughters of Americans? How’s it doing for Ukraine so far? The longer it goes the worse it is for the people there.
 
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#68,636
#68,636
NorthDallas40 said:
My own opinion is closer to the Hill’s op-Ed. Putin didn’t need to as there was enough strife between Trump and the European leaders that he wasn’t compelled to act then. And I also agreed with a lot of what Trump was pushing on them about especially on NATO funding. But regardless the situation was getting worse not better on Ukraine defense under Trump and Putin had more time to reinforce and collect his prior gains during that time. That’s

And frankly Putin was a moron for pushing in 2022. Absolutely nothing was going to be different under the Biden admin. But Putin’s invasion forced that hand. I believe eve handled the whole situation horribly since 2014
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I think this was a well informed post. I disagree and but I think it was well argued. Only Putin truly knows. However, I do feel like Trump probably got other world leaders anxious. Now had he beat Biden, Putin may have gotten more bold, even with Trump, and gone into Ukraine. Eventually you challenge even the unpredictable guy.

I don't buy the Putin/Trump were buddies talk. It just doesn't fit with their personalities. Trump was too much of an egotists to be a pawn of Putin. That is just left wing propaganda.
 
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#68,637
#68,637
tnmarktx said:
How far should we go, cripple this country? Bankrupt future generations? Institute a draft and sacrifice the sons and daughters of Americans? How’s it doing for Ukraine so far? The longer it goes the worse it is for the people there.
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It isn’t going to “cripple this country” regardless of how it goes and I roll my eyes at that kind of hysterics. And absolutely nobody is advocating for US military direct intervention. Nor am I moved by the WW3 hysterics. Russia couldn’t close the deal with an outgunned Ukraine and close it early. So now they’re gonna jump on Europe directly or start a nuclear war? Honestly if we think they would make that kind of a play it’s more reason to act now and do away with them as far as I’m concerned.

And as long as Ukraine wants to fight to defend their country I’m not really moved by our advocating for them to give up their fight either. That’s their choice.
 
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#68,638
#68,638
volbound1700 said:
I think this was a well informed post. I disagree and but I think it was well argued. Only Putin truly knows. However, I do feel like Trump probably got other world leaders anxious. Now had he beat Biden, Putin may have gotten more bold, even with Trump, and gone into Ukraine. Eventually you challenge even the unpredictable guy.

I don't buy the Putin/Trump were buddies talk. It just doesn't fit with their personalities. Trump was too much of an egotists to be a pawn of Putin. That is just left wing propaganda.
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Disagreement is fine. And I’d add that regardless of what Trump says now I’d bet all my VNPF bucks that he continues to fund the Ukraine war just as Biden did. Just like Biden maintained the status quo of his predecessor
 
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#68,641
#68,641
NorthDallas40 said:
It isn’t going to “cripple this country” regardless of how it goes and I roll my eyes at that kind of hysterics. And absolutely nobody is advocating for US military direct intervention. Nor am I moved by the WW3 hysterics. Russia couldn’t close the deal with an outgunned Ukraine and close it early. So now they’re gonna jump on Europe directly or start a nuclear war? Honestly if we think they would make that kind of a play it’s more reason to act now and do away with them as far as I’m concerned.

And as long as Ukraine waits to fight to defend their country I’m not really moved by our advocating for them to give up their fight either. That’s their choice.
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Sure, if Ukraine wants to sacrifice their people and go down as the biggest debacle in their history, it’s on them. Just don’t expect people to support that with their tax dollars.
 
#68,642
#68,642
tnmarktx said:
The fact that they are weak militarily, shouldn’t have surprised anybody. There’s no USSR anymore. They are just too poor.
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The USSR wasn't that strong after Stalin left anyways. Their claim to fame was beating Nazi Germany but they basically got bled to death to do it losing 2x the soldiers Germany did. They also had Zudkov who was a great Commander and a lot of resources and material support from USA and UK that even Stalin cited as critical.

USSR was stronger than Russia just off fact it had more land and people (It is 15 nations today) but had it survived, it would be struggling as well.

Russia's best move would have been to have copied China and become economic factory of low costs goods and labor.
 
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#68,644
#68,644
tnmarktx said:
Sure, if Ukraine wants to sacrifice their people and go down as the biggest debacle in their history, it’s on them. Just don’t expect people to support that with their tax dollars.
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I completely understand the unwillingness to spend money on somebody else’s war truly I do. We’re broke. As I’ve stated earlier today and multiple times before I believe we are obligated to do so in this case. And that’s our own fault for meddling in 1994. We never should have forced that agreement. But it’s too late for that now
 
#68,645
#68,645
tnmarktx said:
You’ve obviously been wrong before. Did you believe politicians on both sides when they stated that Russia was our biggest threat? I’ve heard that lie for years now.
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The USSR/Russia was our biggest threat. That didn’t end immediately in 1991 it persisted for a bit. But today China is clearly our largest geopolitical foe. I’ve never said otherwise.
 
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#68,646
#68,646
tnmarktx said:
Sure, if Ukraine wants to sacrifice their people and go down as the biggest debacle in their history, it’s on them. Just don’t expect people to support that with their tax dollars.
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The biggest debacle in their history would be allowing Putin to take over the country. In fact, it would probably directly lead to the end of “Ukrainian” history.
 
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#68,647
#68,647
NorthDallas40 said:
The USSR/Russia was our biggest threat. That didn’t end immediately in 1991 it persisted for a bit. But today China is clearly our largest geopolitical foe. I’ve never said otherwise.
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Regardless, if this war goes on for years at this rate Ukraine’s infantry will be decimated. There are big losses on both sides and it can be debated who’s actually winning. Ukraine’s economy is already devastated. The people have already lost.
 
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