War in Ukraine

[Velo Vol]

Because they are getting wealthy off the war, if things go south they’ll simply escape the country with their accumulated riches, take asylum in a western country and live life comfortably.

If this is a simple "get rich" scheme, why don't we see it happening all over the world?

 

[MontyPython]

Are you really that uninformed? Russian/USSR forces were as far west as Suhl during the Cold War.

So you supported funding the US military during the cold war to defeat Russia if it invaded Europe, but do not support the US funding Europe when it is actually invaded by Russia.

Got it.

Neville Chamberlain would be proud of you.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[LouderVol]

Did you support the US military build up during the cold war?

moving goal posts a good bit aren't you?

Our military build up is different than building up Ukraine's. Still wasting a ton of money, but at least its wasting money on Americans.

I am ok with the spending that stayed at home. But how much of that military build up resulted in our involvement in Korea and Vietnam? Plus a dozen other fights we didn't need to be in. The military had to justify their exorbitant budget somehow, and the only way they could was to get involved in every crapfest we could find, and it got a bunch of Americans dead and created a lot of our problems today.

My ideal spending cuts would equally hit our military too. way too much wasted money.

 

[LouderVol]

I doubt he was alive during the cold war but in any case, Russia was a legitimate threat to us and western Europe from the 50s on into the mid 80s.

I was. way too young to remember any of it.

 

[LouderVol]

So you supported funding the US military during the cold war to defeat Russia if it invaded Europe, but do not support the US funding Europe when it is actually invaded by Russia.

Got it.

Neville Chamberlain would be proud of you.

Neville Chamberlain gave money and weapons to the Poles. you really need to drop that argument.

Churchills involvement lost them France way too early trying to save the low countries, and then even after most of the French returned to France after escaping Dunkirk, Churchill kept the rescued Brits in Britain.

The allies were in no condition to fight the Germans in 1936, and it probably would have caused France to go communist.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[MontyPython]

moving goal posts a good bit aren't you?

Our military build up is different than building up Ukraine's. Still wasting a ton of money, but at least its wasting money on Americans.

I am ok with the spending that stayed at home. But how much of that military build up resulted in our involvement in Korea and Vietnam? Plus a dozen other fights we didn't need to be in. The military had to justify their exorbitant budget somehow, and the only way they could was to get involved in every crapfest we could find, and it got a bunch of Americans dead and created a lot of our problems today.

My ideal spending cuts would equally hit our military too. way too much wasted money.

Name a conflict since the end of WWII that the US has been in that you supported.

 

[MontyPython]

Neville Chamberlain gave money and weapons to the Poles. you really need to drop that argument.

Churchills involvement lost them France way too early trying to save the low countries, and then even after most of the French returned to France after escaping Dunkirk, Churchill kept the rescued Brits in Britain.

The allies were in no condition to fight the Germans in 1936, and it probably would have caused France to go communist.

Chamberlain *gave* Czechoslovakia to Hitler. He did so because he believed Hitler when he said that that was the only land that Germany wanted. Hitler lied. *shocking*

Appeasement then is appeasement today.

Putin's record clearly demonstrates that he won't stop if we were to "give" him Ukraine. Further, Putin's on the record as clearly stating that he wants the former Balkan states to return to Russia's property.

 

[evillawyer]

 

[evillawyer]

Chamberlain *gave* Czechoslovakia to Hitler. He did so because he believed Hitler when he said that that was the only land that Germany wanted. Hitler lied. *shocking*

Appeasement then is appeasement today.

Putin's record clearly demonstrates that he won't stop if we were to "give" him Ukraine. Further, Putin's on the record as clearly stating that he wants the former Balkan states to return to Russia's property.

Putin has pretty much said he wants to put the old Soviet Union back together. Ukraine is step one. The Baltic states and/or Georgia would be step two.

 

[hog88]

If this is a simple "get rich" scheme, why don't we see it happening all over the world?

We do.

 

[hog88]

So you supported funding the US military during the cold war to defeat Russia if it invaded Europe, but do not support the US funding Europe when it is actually invaded by Russia.

Got it.

Neville Chamberlain would be proud of you.

This is a pretty dumb take on my post. The USSR threatened more than just Europe during the cold war, it threatened US soil with it's land and sea based nuclear weapons. Not to mention The USSR already occupied almost 1/2 of Europe during the cold war, made inroads into central and south America and of course had Cuba as a puppet state. As of today Russia hasn't invaded Europe, it has invaded 1 European country and IMO that is a Europe problem, western Europe has been living under the umbrella of our tax payer funded protection since the 40s it's time they step up and spend their money to protect their backyard.

If Russia were to ever attack a NATO member there would be no question on whether we should get involved but they haven't.

 

[hog88]

On the surface that sounds like a reasonable plan.

 

[hog88]

Chamberlain *gave* Czechoslovakia to Hitler. He did so because he believed Hitler when he said that that was the only land that Germany wanted. Hitler lied. *shocking*

Appeasement then is appeasement today.

Putin's record clearly demonstrates that he won't stop if we were to "give" him Ukraine. Further, Putin's on the record as clearly stating that he wants the former Balkan states to return to Russia's property.

What was Chamberlin going to do to stop Hitler from taking Czechoslovakia? GB couldn't stand toe to toe with Germany.

 

[MontyPython]

This is a pretty dumb take on my post. The USSR threatened more than just Europe during the cold war, it threatened US soil with it's land and sea based nuclear weapons. Not to mention The USSR already occupied almost 1/2 of Europe during the cold war, made inroads into central and south America and of course had Cuba as a puppet state. As of today Russia hasn't invaded Europe, it has invaded 1 European country and IMO that is a Europe problem, western Europe has been living under the umbrella of our tax payer funded protection since the 40s it's time they step up and spend their money to protect their backyard.

If Russia were to ever attack a NATO member there would be no question on whether we should get involved but they haven't.

You say, "The USSR threatened more than just Europe during the cold war, it threatened US soil with it's land and sea based nuclear weapons".

What - pray tell - is different today?

Russia still spans 11 time zones.

Russia still has land and sea based nuclear weapons.

Russia's former President Medvedev and current Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of Russia has repeatedly threatened the United States with nuclear destruction over the past year.

NOTHING has changed in terms of its threats (as you state them). If anything, Russia is more of a threat today than during the Cold War.

 

[Septic]

On the surface that sounds like a reasonable plan.

It sounds reasonable to stab an ally in the back - showing the world the US can't be trusted while rewarding Putin with stolen land? Re-energizing their economy after they've threaten the west and all of their neighbors with nukes?

Are you high?

 

[hog88]

You say, "The USSR threatened more than just Europe during the cold war, it threatened US soil with it's land and sea based nuclear weapons".

What - pray tell - is different today?

Russia still spans 11 time zones and still has nuclear weapons.

NOTHING has changed in terms of its threats (as you state them).

The vast majority of Russia's land based nuclear arsenal is inoperable today, and only about 5 ballistic submarines can be deployed at any one time. They are a paper tiger in that regard.

Plus why are you skipping over this part:

Not to mention The USSR already occupied almost 1/2 of Europe during the cold war, made inroads into central and south America and of course had Cuba as a puppet state. As of today Russia hasn't invaded Europe, it has invaded 1 European country and IMO that is a Europe problem, western Europe has been living under the umbrella of our tax payer funded protection since the 40s it's time they step up and spend their money to protect their backyard.

 

[hog88]

It sounds reasonable to stab an ally in the back - showing the world the US can't be trusted while rewarding Putin with stolen land? Re-energizing their economy after they've threaten the west and all of their neighbors with nukes?

Are you high?

When exactly has Ukraine been an ally?

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[MontyPython]

What was Chamberlin going to do to stop Hitler from taking Czechoslovakia? GB couldn't stand toe to toe with Germany.

Plenty. Prepped balls to the wall for war, for starters. Convinced France to support the Czechs for seconds.

But the bottom line is you obviously just don't get it. *Principle matters*. Sadly, you clearly would have been too scared to stand on principle. Instead of doing the right thing, you would opt to betray an ally rather than fight for an ally.

As I've told you before, our Founding Fathers would piss in your general direction.

 

[hog88]

Plenty. Prepped balls to the wall for war, for starters. Convinced France to support the Czechs for seconds.

But the bottom line is you obviously just don't get it. *Principle matters*. Sadly, you clearly would have been too scared to stand on principle. Instead of doing the right thing, you would instead betray an ally rather than fight for an ally.

As I've told you before, our Founding Fathers would piss in your general direction.

When has Ukraine been an ally?

The rest of your post is simple hysteria born of ignorance.

 

[Septic]

When exactly has Ukraine been an ally?

When have they not been?

You don't think Zelensky and the Ukrainian people are super-pro US/west at this point?

Vivek's plan of "awarding" the land to Putin is asinine and would embolden Russia to keep doing it. Taiwan? Done.

This guy's foreign policy platform is utterly disqualifying as an alternative. Of course, I'm sure it's mainly an appeal to the Trumper nationalists - he's trying to peel them away.

 

[MontyPython]

When has Ukraine been an ally?

The rest of your post is simple hysteria born of ignorance.

I bow to your rightful crown of uber-ignorance, sir.

Per the CATO Institute:

Since When Did Ukraine Become an Important U.S. “Ally?”​

 

[Septic]

The vast majority of Russia's land based nuclear arsenal is inoperable today, and only about 5 ballistic submarines can be deployed at any one time. They are a paper tiger in that regard.

Plus why are you skipping over this part:

How tf would you possibly know that? Also, how many need to be operable to destroy the world?

You're into the sauce a little early today.