War in Ukraine

[BeardedVol]

You took a current poll from the Ukrainian people about the war?

Beyond the counteroffensive: 84% of Ukrainians are ready for a long war

84% of Ukrainians reject any compromise with Russia and are ready for a long war if necessary in order to fully de-occupy their country. Most simply see no middle ground between genocide and national survival, writes Peter Dickinson.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Press releases and reports - Dynamics of readiness for territorial concessions for the earliest possible end of the war: results of a telephone survey conducted May 26-June 5, 2023

kiis.com.ua

 

[tnmarktx]

Last time I checked, they were following their constitution.

Wartime Elections in Ukraine Are Impossible

Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.

foreignpolicy.com

Terrible thing to have in a constitution. Gives a dictator the green light to stay in power forever.

 

[BeardedVol]

Elections are suspended. Has already been stated.

They are following their longstanding law, that does not allow for elections during a time of war.

Про правовий режим воєнного стану

Закон України від 12.05.2015 № 389-VIII

zakon.rada.gov.ua

 

[KB5252]

When did I ever express dislike for the Ukrainian people? Now you're just joining the Ukrainiac group think.

Everything you've stated thus far in the banter is the anti Ukrainian position. You've stated repeatedly your dislike for the Ukrainian government. It's the government the Ukrainian people elected to represent them.

You can't claim to be pro Ukrainian public here when you explicitly reject and express contempt for the government they freely elected.

 

[hog88]

They are being forced to die for a losing cause.

No they're not. If there were enough Ukrainian soldiers that felt that way they could throw down their arms and surrender, turn their guns on the few forcing them to fight or just desert. Ship men halfway around the world you can force them to fight, you can't force men to fight when they are in walking distance of home.

 

[tnmarktx]

Beyond the counteroffensive: 84% of Ukrainians are ready for a long war

84% of Ukrainians reject any compromise with Russia and are ready for a long war if necessary in order to fully de-occupy their country. Most simply see no middle ground between genocide and national survival, writes Peter Dickinson.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Press releases and reports - Dynamics of readiness for territorial concessions for the earliest possible end of the war: results of a telephone survey conducted May 26-June 5, 2023

kiis.com.ua

Is this poll the same as your bogus poll about the majority of Americans supporting a blank check for Ukraine?

 

[KB5252]

Elections are suspended. Has already been stated.

It's the government the people (Ukrainians) elected..... Following Ukrainian law.

Your contempt for them is showing through again.....

 

[tnmarktx]

Everything you've started this far in the banter is the anti Ukrainian position. You've stated repeatedly your dislike for the Ukrainian government. It's the government the Ukrainian people elected to represent them.

You can't claim to be pro Ukrainian public here when you explicitly reject and express contempt for the government they freely elected.

That's BS. Our gov is amongst the worst that exists. I'm I anti American? Give me a break!

 

[tnmarktx]

It's the government the people (Ukrainians) elected..... Following Ukrainian law.

Your contempt for them is showing through again.....

It's a terrible law, you disagree?

 

[hog88]

The fault in that logic is that the world is a much much smaller place than it was even during WW2 when Europe's problem became our problem, too. There are a few bullies around the world, and two serious ones in particular. Russia is attempting to expand territory which gives them more access to industry, people, and resources for weaponry, strategic access to oceans, and military manpower. We still have space between us and our enemies; don't really believe the Cold War ever ended; it just paused while the other guys are getting their act together again. As Russia and China continue to subvert governments in our hemisphere, we don't even have as much ocean for isolation. This article opens up a bit of that thinking - could be alarmist thinking or could be bureaucracies protecting their turf, but I think there is something to it; and it doesn't really even address our vulnerability to cyberwarfare.



SAM Sites Could Return To Critical Locales Across U.S.

And while we are sending billions of dollars worth of cash and material to Ukraine our military is degrading, what good is weakening Russia through supporting Ukraine if we're weakening ourselves?

 

[BeardedVol]

Is this poll the same as your bogus poll about the majority of Americans supporting a blank check for Ukraine?

So the poll is "bogus"?

What part of their methodology do you disagree with to the point of it being nonrepresentative or the sentiments of the populace?

Press releases and reports - Dynamics of readiness for territorial concessions for the earliest possible end of the war: results of a telephone survey conducted May 26-June 5, 2023

kiis.com.ua

Methodology is listed near the end.

 

[norrislakevol]

They are being forced to die for a losing cause.

If they hadn't have fought, Kiev and the the rest of the country would be over run. Now, Russia will be unable to over run the rest of the country. I have little confidence that Ukraine will have the ability to retake lands in the east where the Russians are firmly dug in in this trench, World War I type of war, but the loss of significant portions of Ukrainian land in the future to the hands of the Russians will likely not occur. If Ukraine is smart, they will hold what they have, take about 10 years to build up a huge, advanced military, and then invade the lands that Russia has taken in this conflict when they have much greater strength and weapons. If Russia would be foolish enough to invade another neighbor (they probably would), then that is when Ukraine could strike. That's what I'd do at least.

 

[KB5252]

That's BS. Our gov is amongst the worst that exists. I'm I anti American? Give me a break!

If you don't at least respect the government and will of the people in this country then yes.......... You are anti American.

You can gripe and complain about it all you want. Hell I do. But if you have the same contempt and prejudice against this government as you appear to have of Ukraine's...... Then yes, anti American would describe you well.

 

[AM64]

Ok, so tell me why a country with a government corruption rank lower than Mexico, shouldn't defend itself from being invaded by their genocidal neighbor?

Wait, why does the government corruption factor in at all, on whether or not Ukrainians should defend their country from invasion?

View attachment 577142
View attachment 577144

2022 Corruption Perceptions Index: Explore the results

How does your country measure up in the 2022 Corruption Perceptions Index?

www.transparency.org

The real eyeopener in that list - Mexico - should scare the crap out of people. Not that Mexico is viewed as extremely corrupt (seems like most African nations actually did better) - that's reasonably well known, but that we have an open and porous border with Mexico and aren't doing anything to fix the border.

 

[tnmarktx]

So the poll is "bogus"?

What part of their methodology do you disagree with to the point of it being nonrepresentative or the sentiments of the populace?

Press releases and reports - Dynamics of readiness for territorial concessions for the earliest possible end of the war: results of a telephone survey conducted May 26-June 5, 2023

kiis.com.ua

Methodology is listed near the end.

You posted an earlier post with a poll that states that the majority of Americans support a blank check for Ukraine. Have you backed off the validity of that Poll? Because that clearly isn't true. For arguments sake, this one could actually be valid. But, 99% of reports about how Ukraine is handily whipping the Russian's are not true.

 

[hog88]

If you don't at least respect the government and will of the people in this country then yes.......... You are anti American.

You can gripe and complain about it all you want. Hell I do. But if you have the same contempt and prejudice against this government as you appear to have of Ukraine's...... Then yes, anti American would describe you well.

That is some serious horse shizz right there.

 

[KB5252]

It's a terrible law, you disagree?

No, I don't agree. If one third of this state TN were occupied by an invading force and there were active war zones would you feel it appropriate, or good practice to hold state elections?

 

[tnmarktx]

If you don't at least respect the government and will of the people in this country then yes.......... You are anti American.

You can gripe and complain about it all you want. Hell I do. But if you have the same contempt and prejudice against this government as you appear to have of Ukraine's...... Then yes, anti American would describe you well.

Do you support a 22 year prison sentence for an individual for seditious conspiracy that wasn't even present at the capital on Jan 6? If you support that, which is what our gov is up to now, that's far more anti American.

 

[KB5252]

That is some serious horse shizz right there.

Wording was off for sure, went a little too far. My true feelings are the next paragraph you didn't highlight.

 

[KB5252]

Do you support a 22 year prison sentence for an individual for seditious conspiracy that wasn't even present at the capital on Jan 6? If you support that, which is what our gov is up to now, that's far more anti American.

No I don't. But I see where you are attempting to take this.


Edit:

I reached too quickly, I don't know the particulars of the case. So I cannot comment.... But I will stand behind a separate reply.

And no need to post the particulars here. It would only further derail this thread.

 

[BeardedVol]

You posted an earlier post with a poll that states that the majority of Americans support a blank check for Ukraine. Have you backed off the validity of that Poll? Because that clearly isn't true. For arguments sake, this one could actually be valid. But, 99% of reports about how Ukraine is handily whipping the Russian's are not true.

Why are you trying to pivot away from your earlier statement?

You said the poll is bogus, tell me why it is bogus.

The poll was not asking the Ukrainian people if they thought they were "winning", it asked them if they were prepared for a longer war to take back the lands that Russia is occupying, and 84% answered in the affirmative.

 

[tnmarktx]

No I don't. But I see where you are attempting to take this.

No you don't. To answer your question, I have far more disdain for this gov than I'll ever have for the Ukrainian gov.

 

[KB5252]

Do you support a 22 year prison sentence for an individual for seditious conspiracy that wasn't even present at the capital on Jan 6? If you support that, which is what our gov is up to now, that's far more anti American.

I think the people that went to the capital that day were fine in expressing their frustration. Many took it too far.

I also believe the government has overreacted in many of the instances of those that went too far and overcharged.

 

[tnmarktx]

Why are you trying to pivot away from your earlier statement?

You said the poll is bogus, tell me why it is bogus.

The poll was not asking the Ukrainian people if they thought they were "winning", it asked them if they were prepared for a longer war to take back the lands that Russia is occupying, and 84% answered in the affirmative.

View attachment 577214
View attachment 577215

I have a hard time believing anything regarding any Poll to be perfectly honest. I don't believe anything that's posted either for or against Ukraine or Russia in regards to the war. The fact that Ukraine is conscripting their women to fight is eye opening.

 

[tnmarktx]

I think the people that went to the capital that day were fine in expressing their frustration. Many took it too far.

I also believe the government has overreacted in many of the instances of those that went too far and overcharged.

Being pro american, you should be outraged. I'd personally vote for anyone running on the fact that they'd completely scrap and dismantle the DOJ and all releated agencies involved.