War in Ukraine

Wow. A wrecked conspiracy theorist quoting another conspiracy theorist. And you lap it all up.

There's no fixing stupid.
DId you watch the video and hear Biden brag about expanding NATO???
Biden said what I gave said all along, the Dems started this war by trying to expand NATO into Ukraine. There should have never been any talk about adding Uhriane to NATO. Ukraine should have been left neutral and there would have been no war.
 
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DId you watch the video and hear Biden brag about expanding NATO???
Biden said what I gave said all along, the Dems started this war by trying to expand NATO into Ukraine. There should have never been any talk about adding Uhriane to NATO. Ukraine should have been left neutral and there would have been no war.

There was no serious talk of expanding NATO to Ukraine before the invasion. That is bull$hit. Russia started the war by invading a sovereign
country---period, end of story.
 
DId you watch the video and hear Biden brag about expanding NATO???
Biden said what I gave said all along, the Dems started this war by trying to expand NATO into Ukraine. There should have never been any talk about adding Uhriane to NATO. Ukraine should have been left neutral and there would have been no war.
So by your 'logic', Russia should also invade Finland because it *actually* joined NATO and shares a 1,000 km border with Russia.

Face it, you're just regurgitating Kremlin manufactured bullsh*t they use to justify their attempted land grab. Wake up and smell the coffee man.

Also, do us all a favor and brush up on your history while you're at it. Google Winter War 1939. Educate yourself about who has always been the real threat to invade neighboring countries.
 
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So by your 'logic', Russia should also invade Finland because it *actually* joined NATO and shares a 1,000 km border with Russia.

Face it, you're just regurgitating Kremlin manufactured bullsh*t they use to justify their attempted land grab. Wake up and smell the coffee man.
It's never been about NATO. This is Russian imperialism 100%. The whole reason NATO even exists is Russia can't keep its hands off other countries. Putin's rambling essay never mentions NATO. It's all about Ukraine really being Russia.

 
DId you watch the video and hear Biden brag about expanding NATO???
Biden said what I gave said all along, the Dems started this war by trying to expand NATO into Ukraine. There should have never been any talk about adding Uhriane to NATO. Ukraine should have been left neutral and there would have been no war.
Finland and Sweden spurned offers of NATO membership for nearly 80 years, and what was it that made them do a complete 180 and petition to join?

Hint: it was not Joe Biden.
 
Yeah except for the fact the Ukraine was denied a MAP back in 2008, and NATO membership for them was pretty much never brought back up until Russia escalated their 8 year old invasion in 2022.


Dec 2021

Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says​


June 2021 talks about Uktraine joining NATO

Jan 2022

"When tens of thousands of Russian troops started moving toward the Ukrainian border late last year, Russian President Vladimir Putin effectively issued an ultimatum: They won’t go home until he had “concrete agreements prohibiting any further eastward expansion of NATO.”

"This week, as the US and Russia exchange formal diplomatic letters, Secretary of State Antony Blinken emphasized that “NATO’s door is open, remains open, and that is our commitment.”

“The open-door policy is the one that maximizes friction with Russia, which has culminated in the crisis we have now,” said Mary Sarotte, a historian of international relations at Johns Hopkins University. “I don’t think Vladimir Putin is primarily interested in historical accuracy, but I believe he is genuinely aggrieved at the way the post–Cold War order includes no stake for Russia.”


"In May of 2021, Ukraine recklessly hosted the biggest NATO war games in years in eastern Ukraine near the front of the ongoing war in the Donbass. 20 Western countries joined in these war games. This was just a month after Kiev petitioned NATO to accelerate its “Membership Action Plan”.

In August of 2021,  Zelensky began engaging in peace talks with Russia over the war in the Donbass. Neo-Nazis staged an armed riot in Kiev, trashing the Presidential office building. Luckily, Zelensky wasn’t there that day, but the message was received all the same: No negotiations. No compromise."

A month later, in September, Ukraine again hosted NATO war games near the front in the Donbass. Again, 20 countries took part in these war games, in a wildly provocative escalation."


joint military operations between US and Ukraine in 2021


"U.S. President Joe Biden has said for years that Ukraine will one day become a member of NATO. In fact, he was asserting this before most Ukrainians had any desire to join the alliance. “If you choose to be part of Euro-Atlantic integration, which I believe you have, then we strongly support that,” he announced on a trip to Kyiv as vice president in 2009. In Ukraine that year, only 28 percent favored NATO membership for their country, while 51 percent opposed it. Biden has remained committed to the idea in principle. “Ukraine’s future lies at NATO,” he insisted again in Vilnius, Lithuania, last summer."
 
Dec 2021

Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says​


June 2021 talks about Uktraine joining NATO

Jan 2022

"When tens of thousands of Russian troops started moving toward the Ukrainian border late last year, Russian President Vladimir Putin effectively issued an ultimatum: They won’t go home until he had “concrete agreements prohibiting any further eastward expansion of NATO.”

"This week, as the US and Russia exchange formal diplomatic letters, Secretary of State Antony Blinken emphasized that “NATO’s door is open, remains open, and that is our commitment.”

“The open-door policy is the one that maximizes friction with Russia, which has culminated in the crisis we have now,” said Mary Sarotte, a historian of international relations at Johns Hopkins University. “I don’t think Vladimir Putin is primarily interested in historical accuracy, but I believe he is genuinely aggrieved at the way the post–Cold War order includes no stake for Russia.”


"In May of 2021, Ukraine recklessly hosted the biggest NATO war games in years in eastern Ukraine near the front of the ongoing war in the Donbass. 20 Western countries joined in these war games. This was just a month after Kiev petitioned NATO to accelerate its “Membership Action Plan”.

In August of 2021,  Zelensky began engaging in peace talks with Russia over the war in the Donbass. Neo-Nazis staged an armed riot in Kiev, trashing the Presidential office building. Luckily, Zelensky wasn’t there that day, but the message was received all the same: No negotiations. No compromise."

A month later, in September, Ukraine again hosted NATO war games near the front in the Donbass. Again, 20 countries took part in these war games, in a wildly provocative escalation."


joint military operations between US and Ukraine in 2021


"U.S. President Joe Biden has said for years that Ukraine will one day become a member of NATO. In fact, he was asserting this before most Ukrainians had any desire to join the alliance. “If you choose to be part of Euro-Atlantic integration, which I believe you have, then we strongly support that,” he announced on a trip to Kyiv as vice president in 2009. In Ukraine that year, only 28 percent favored NATO membership for their country, while 51 percent opposed it. Biden has remained committed to the idea in principle. “Ukraine’s future lies at NATO,” he insisted again in Vilnius, Lithuania, last summer."

Did NATO give Ukraine a MAP in 2021?

No?

Then they weren't joining NATO.

1720274798920.png

No MAP, no membership.
 
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It's never been about NATO. This is Russian imperialism 100%. The whole reason NATO even exists is Russia can't keep its hands off other countries. Putin's rambling essay never mentions NATO. It's all about Ukraine really being Russia.

Well you know that, I know that and most people in the world know that, yet somehow there are those here that are willfully ignorant, it seems.
 
Well you know that, I know that and most people in the world know that, yet somehow there are those here that are willfully ignorant, it seems.

It's mind boggling isn't it?

Even if a person doesn't support aiding Ukraine in helping them defend their country from Russia's invasion, it doesn't explain the need some of them feel to try to justify Russia's naked imperialism and attempted genocide.
 
It's never been about NATO. This is Russian imperialism 100%. The whole reason NATO even exists is Russia can't keep its hands off other countries. Putin's rambling essay never mentions NATO. It's all about Ukraine really being Russia.


That's not what Russia said 28+ years ago which is what the U.S. military briefed Congress on. The Congressional Record was previously provided in this very thread probably a year or two ago. The U.S. military was warning Congress that expansion of the U.S. and NATO would lead to additional aggression and additional responses from Russia.

All of that is pretty meaningless going forward. At this point its about killing the people that elect to not move West. They might have to all go.
 
That's not what Russia said 28+ years ago which is what the U.S. military briefed Congress on. The Congressional Record was previously provided in this very thread probably a year or two ago.

At this point its about killing the people that elect to not move West. All of that is pretty meaningless going forward.
What does what was said 28 years ago have to do with what Putin said in his ghostwritten essay in 2021. He said nothing about NATO. He said Ukraine had land that was Russian land and Ukraine and Russia were one people.
 
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What does what was said 28 years ago have to do with what Putin said in his ghostwritten essay in 2021. He said nothing about NATO. He said Ukraine had land that was Russian land and Ukraine and Russia were one people.

Well there are two reasons, expansion of NATO/west and what they view as ethnic cleansing of what was historic Russia land from their POV.

Russia really doesn't want the rest of the Ukraine for obvious reasons, but at this point I think they just need to reduce it all to rumble i.e one big ass parking lot. It appears to be the only way now. Russia was hoping for a settlement whereas Poland basically takes over the Western side, that doesn't seem like its in the cards.
 
Russia really doesn't want the rest of the Ukraine for obvious reasons, but at this point I think they just need to reduce it all to rumble i.e one big ass parking lot. It appears to be the only way now. Russia was hoping for a settlement whereas Poland basically takes over the Western side, that doesn't seem like its in the cards.
And then what will happen to all of those Ukrainian "nationalists"? They'll have to move to The West.
 
Did NATO give Ukraine a MAP in 2021?

No?

Then they weren't joining NATO.

View attachment 656788

No MAP, no membership.
1) Biden was illegally installed as President and he had for years said he wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO

2) leading up to and BEFORE the war in Ukraine the US was sending military aide to Ukraine.

3) beginning of 2021 US military began having military training exercises with Ukraine troops.

4) latter part of 2021 Ukraine participated in NATO war games in Ukraine Donbas region.

What was Putin to think? You act like NOTHING was going on prior to the war. Ukraine may not have been an "official" member of NATO but just prior to the war they were being treated as if they were. I am not siding with Russia but US/Biden had much to do with war in Ukraine. Biden's weakness and incompetence had a lot with Russia being aggressive when they would not have done so if Trump were the President.
 
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1) Biden was illegally installed as President and he had for years said he wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO

2) leading up to and BEFORE the war in Ukraine the US was sending military aide to Ukraine.

3) beginning of 2021 US military begin having military training exercises with Ukraine troops.

4) latter part of 2021 Ukraine participated in NATO war games in Ukraine Donbas region.

What was Putin to think? You act like NOTHING was going on prior to the war. Ukraine may not have been an "official" member of NATO but just prior to the war they were being treated as if they were. I am not siding with Russia but US/Biden had much to do with war in Ukraine. Biden's weakness and incompetence had a lot with Russia being aggressive when they would not have done so if Trump were the President.
1) This is a moronic position, and it was George Bush who made the strongest push for Ukraine to be invited to NATO, and still Merkel vetoed him, and it wasn't brought up again until Putin escalated the 2014 invasion.

2) The US didn't start sending aid to Ukraine until Russia invaded in 2014, and then it was only small arms, training, and some javelins, to the time of $2.8 billion from 2014-2021. Basically nothing when it comes to weapon systems.

3)We started providing additional training to Ukraine in 2021 because we knew if Russia's imminent escalation that Putin lied about till the very day he launched it.

4) There were no "NATO war games" in Donbas in 2021. Rapid Trident has occurred every year since 2006, and takes place at Yavoriv military training ground, which is 15 miles from Lviv in western Ukraine. Your willful ignorance rivals that of @LSU-SIU.

Your entire post is a regurgitation of Kremlin nonsense and misinformation.
 
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1) This is a moronic position, and it was George Bush who made the strongest push for Ukraine to be invited to NATO, and still Merkel vetoed him, and it wasn't brought up again until Putin escalated the 2014 invasion.

2) The US didn't start sending aid to Ukraine until Russia invaded in 2014, and then it was only small arms, training, and some javelins, to the time of $2.8 billion from 2014-2021. Basically nothing when it comes to weapon systems.

3)We started providing additional training to Ukraine in 2021 because we knew if Russia's imminent escalation that Putin lied about till the very day he launched it.

4) There were no "NATO war games" in Donbas in 2021. Rapid Trident has occurred every year since 2006, and takes place at Yavoriv military training ground, which is 15 miles from Lviv in western Ukraine. Your willful ignorance rivals that of @LSU-SIU.

Your entire post is a regurgitation of Kremlin nonsense and misinformation.
What Biden/US was doing in the Ukraine was the perfect excuse Putin needed to go into Ukraine. Kind of like when the Capitol Police open the doors of the US Capitol building letting protestors inside then call it an insurrection.

Again,

The USA Caused the War in Ukraine, and Only the USA Can End It

"In May of 2021, Ukraine recklessly hosted the biggest NATO war games in years in eastern Ukraine near the front of the ongoing war in the Donbass. 20 Western countries joined in these war games. This was just a month after Kiev petitioned NATO to accelerate its “Membership Action Plan”.

In August of 2021,  Zelensky began engaging in peace talks with Russia over the war in the Donbass. Neo-Nazis staged an armed riot in Kiev, trashing the Presidential office building. Luckily, Zelensky wasn’t there that day, but the message was received all the same: No negotiations. No compromise."

A month later, in September,
Ukraine again hosted NATO war games near the front in the Donbass. Again, 20 countries took part in these war games, in a wildly provocative escalation."
 
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What Biden/US was doing in the Ukraine was the perfect excuse Putin needed to go into Ukraine. Kind of like when the Capitol Police open the doors of the US Capitol building letting protestors inside then call it an insurrection.

Again,

The USA Caused the War in Ukraine, and Only the USA Can End It

"In May of 2021, Ukraine recklessly hosted the biggest NATO war games in years in eastern Ukraine near the front of the ongoing war in the Donbass. 20 Western countries joined in these war games. This was just a month after Kiev petitioned NATO to accelerate its “Membership Action Plan”.

In August of 2021,  Zelensky began engaging in peace talks with Russia over the war in the Donbass. Neo-Nazis staged an armed riot in Kiev, trashing the Presidential office building. Luckily, Zelensky wasn’t there that day, but the message was received all the same: No negotiations. No compromise."

A month later, in September,
Ukraine again hosted NATO war games near the front in the Donbass. Again, 20 countries took part in these war games, in a wildly provocative escalation."

You can quote codepink (lol) all you want, that still won't make "NATO war games" to have occurred in Ukraine in May of 2021. Feel free to provide corroborating sources though.

As I already showed you, Rapid Trident happened for years in Ukraine, and takes place in the west, nowhere near Donbas, but even if it did, Donbas if part of Ukraine, and if Ukraine wanted to hold military exercises there, it's their right to do so.

Russian soldiers were already in Ukraine, and had been for 7 years by 2021. Putin escalated because he thought he could take the entirety of Ukraine with little to no resistance, because his 'yes men' in the 5th services branch of the FSB lied to him about how Ukraine would collapse and Russia would be welcomed.

 
What Biden/US was doing in the Ukraine was the perfect excuse Putin needed to go into Ukraine. Kind of like when the Capitol Police open the doors of the US Capitol building letting protestors inside then call it an insurrection.

Again,

The USA Caused the War in Ukraine, and Only the USA Can End It

"In May of 2021, Ukraine recklessly hosted the biggest NATO war games in years in eastern Ukraine near the front of the ongoing war in the Donbass. 20 Western countries joined in these war games. This was just a month after Kiev petitioned NATO to accelerate its “Membership Action Plan”.

In August of 2021,  Zelensky began engaging in peace talks with Russia over the war in the Donbass. Neo-Nazis staged an armed riot in Kiev, trashing the Presidential office building. Luckily, Zelensky wasn’t there that day, but the message was received all the same: No negotiations. No compromise."

A month later, in September,
Ukraine again hosted NATO war games near the front in the Donbass. Again, 20 countries took part in these war games, in a wildly provocative escalation."

It will eventually end and most probably it won't have anything to do with the U.S.
 
You can quote codepink (lol) all you want, that still won't make "NATO war games" to have occurred in Ukraine in May of 2021. Feel free to provide corroborating sources though.

As I already showed you, Rapid Trident happened for years in Ukraine, and takes place in the west, nowhere near Donbas, but even if it did, Donbas if part of Ukraine, and if Ukraine wanted to hold military exercises there, it's their right to do so.

Russian soldiers were already in Ukraine, and had been for 7 years by 2021. Putin escalated because he thought he could take the entirety of Ukraine with little to no resistance, because his 'yes men' in the 5th services branch of the FSB lied to him about how Ukraine would collapse and Russia would be welcomed.



Dec 2021

"Ukraine says it is planning ten military exercises for next year with the participation of thousands or foreign troops, in yet another move that raises the risk of a military confrontation with Russia.

The Ukrainian parliament approved a draft law on Tuesday allowing the participation of foreign troops in military exercises in 2022.

According to the law, sent by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, Ukraine plans to hold 10 large military exercises next year.

Before the vote, Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister Anatoliy Petrenko told parliament that 11,500 troops from the United States, Britain, Poland, Romania, and other countries would participate in the exercises, along with 21,000 Ukrainian troops.

The war games would be carried out on land, at sea, and in the air, according to Petrenko......

Ukraine, which is not a member of NATO, has stepped up military cooperation with Western countries in recent weeks.....

Russian President Vladimir Putin warned on Monday against the expansion of NATO military activity to Ukraine, saying the activities would constitutes a "direct threat" to the security of his country.

Putin emphasized the need for immediate talks with the West to come up with a clear, international legal agreement that would prevent NATO's further expansion east and the deployment of weapons that threaten Russia to its neighboring states, primarily Ukraine, the Kremlin said in a statement.

The United States, its NATO allies, and Ukraine accuse Moscow of amassing troops near Ukraine's border for a possible invasion. Russia says there is no such plan. Moscow also says Washington is involved in aggressive moves in the Black Sea, where Ukraine and the US have held military drills recently.
 
Dec 2021

"Ukraine says it is planning ten military exercises for next year with the participation of thousands or foreign troops, in yet another move that raises the risk of a military confrontation with Russia.

The Ukrainian parliament approved a draft law on Tuesday allowing the participation of foreign troops in military exercises in 2022.

According to the law, sent by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, Ukraine plans to hold 10 large military exercises next year.

Before the vote, Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister Anatoliy Petrenko told parliament that 11,500 troops from the United States, Britain, Poland, Romania, and other countries would participate in the exercises, along with 21,000 Ukrainian troops.

The war games would be carried out on land, at sea, and in the air, according to Petrenko......

Ukraine, which is not a member of NATO, has stepped up military cooperation with Western countries in recent weeks.....

Russian President Vladimir Putin warned on Monday against the expansion of NATO military activity to Ukraine, saying the activities would constitutes a "direct threat" to the security of his country.

Putin emphasized the need for immediate talks with the West to come up with a clear, international legal agreement that would prevent NATO's further expansion east and the deployment of weapons that threaten Russia to its neighboring states, primarily Ukraine, the Kremlin said in a statement.

The United States, its NATO allies, and Ukraine accuse Moscow of amassing troops near Ukraine's border for a possible invasion. Russia says there is no such plan. Moscow also says Washington is involved in aggressive moves in the Black Sea, where Ukraine and the US have held military drills recently.

Where exactly does this support your assertion that Ukraine held "provocative" NATO exercises in the Donbas in 2021, which you believe justified Russia escalating their 8-year old invasion into an attempt at total conquest of Ukraine?

Need you be reminded for a third time, that NATO had been holding exercises with Ukraine since 2006?
The Tennessee national guard even participated in 2018.
 

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