War in Ukraine

[LSU-SIU]

Putin's realities on the ground mean they stay under the thumb of Putin, will of the people be damned.


Let's not pretend the majority of the people in Georgia, Ukraine or any other former satellite want to remain under Russian rule save that of war and possibility of death.

Well, one can make that argument but that is not his stance, which is along the stance of what I said maybe up to a year ago.

So, its your opinion that the Ukraine can be neutral? (I think that is what your disagreement is, I think)

 

[KB5252]

But you are no expressing what that is.... its you're feelings are hurt. If you have a disputed fact or would discuss an opinion or pov, I am here. But saying stuff like "propaganda" seems like version of "conspiracy theory" and "Orange Man Bad".




What am I not comprehending? I have asked you to clarify what your specific issues is.

How are my feelings hurt?

My specific objection to the propaganda you are pushing is in a post above.

If you believe in any way that my feelings are hurt because I find your obliviousness hilarious.

 

[LSU-SIU]

How are my feelings hurt?

My specific objection to the propaganda you are pushing is in a post above.

If you believe in any way that my feelings are hurt because I find your obliviousness hilarious.

I don't know why or how, but you are throwing out stuff like "propaganda" in referring to me, when in fact I think I have been saying the same thing for a year.

They are just saying what is logical, the Ukraine can't be an independent country. If they cease fire and stop the lines where they are, nothing is solved. Same thing I've been saying.

What else is there?

 

[KB5252]

Well, one can make that argument but that is not his stance, which is along the stance of what I said maybe up to a year ago.

So, its your opinion that the Ukraine can be neutral? (I think that is what your disagreement is, I think)

Why does Ukraine need to be neutral to exist? They can believe Putin is a war monger and choose to align with whoever they want so long as they militarily hostile with Russia.

They can choose to believe the US is a war monger and choose to reject them as well. So long as they aren't militarily hostile..... Who gives a damn, their people will decide.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Why does Ukraine need to be neutral to exist? They can believe Putin is a war monger and choose to align with whoever they want so long as they militarily hostile with Russia.

They can choose to believe the US is a war monger and choose to reject them as well. So long as they aren't militarily hostile..... Who gives a damn, their people will decide.

Exactly, which is why Russia floated the idea out long ago that Poland annex western Ukraine.

Basically, Russia is like.... you take them or we blow them up. More or less what I said 1-2 years ago.

The problem is.... NOBODY wants them.

 

[BeardedVol]

Exactly, which is why Russia floated the idea out long ago that Poland annex western Ukraine.

Basically, Russia is like.... you take them or we blow them up. More or less what I said 1-2 years ago.

Lol, Putin has never said that.

In fact, his plan was to take the whole of the country and install Viktor Medvedchuk as Ukraine's Lukashenko after a 3-day blitz into the country which he was convinced by the FSB would be met by millions of Ukrainians wanting to be Russian, causing the collapse of the Ukrainian government.

He was wrong, just like you.

 

[KB5252]

I don't know why or how, but you are throwing out stuff like "propaganda" in referring to me, when in fact I think I have been saying the same thing for a year.

They are just saying what is logical, the Ukraine can't be an independent country. If they cease fire and stop the lines where they are, nothing is solved.

Just because you've been repeating or advancing it for 6 months doesn't absolve it from being propaganda.

Sure they can be an independent country, they weren't a threat militarily to Russia until Russia invaded.

The US was meddling in Ukraine much as Russia is on our southern border. We haven't invaded Mexico and created our own boogie man.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Just because you've been repeating or advancing it for 6 months doesn't absolve it from being propaganda.

Sure they can be an independent country, they weren't a threat militarily to Russia until Russia invaded.

The US was meddling in Ukraine much as Russia is on our southern border. We haven't invaded Mexico and created our own boogie man.

Its not propaganda because logically what they are saying is the only way to view it.

Sure they can be an independent country, they weren't a threat militarily to Russia until Russia invaded.

Or the West sanctions them and cuts them off from trade and travel in the future, and then we're onto round 2 of the war. Long term this doesn't work because the Ukraine can't live on its own.

They can't be independent, meaning it must be assumed they will continue to do what they have been doing and are now starting to do to Georgia.

What Russia is saying, is exactly what I said before they said... why? Logic.

The problem isn't that Russia wants Western Ukraine, the problem is they don't want it... .and nobody else wants it, at least as a full on welfare state.

What Russia is hinting at and I am saying is the West has to take Western Ukraine, or the alternative is Russia has to go to the Polish border. That's not propaganda, that's just logic as the only thing Russia would gain from the first part is peace.

 

[KB5252]

Exactly, which is why Russia floated the idea out long ago that Poland annex western Ukraine.

Basically, Russia is like.... you take them or we blow them up. More or less what I said 1-2 years ago.

The problem is.... NOBODY wants them.

The fact you can't see why this is Russian propaganda is astoundingly hilarious!

It's because Russia was the only one who felt they couldn't be a country.......... Why? Because an independent Ukraine is in their way, he wants the eastern ports. The reason he didn't care about the rest and wanted someone else to take it was to smooth things over and because the west was never in his plans anyway.

 

[KB5252]

Its not propaganda because logically what they are saying is the only way to view it.



Or the West sanctions them and cuts them off from trade and travel in the future, and then we're onto round 2 of the war. Long term this doesn't work because the Ukraine can't live on its own.

They can't be independent, meaning it must be assumed they will continue to do what they have been doing and are now starting to do to Georgia.

What Russia is saying, is exactly what I said before they said... why? Logic.

The problem isn't that Russia wants Western Ukraine, the problem is they don't want it... .and nobody else wants it, at least as a full on welfare state.

What Russia is hinting at and I am saying is the West has to take Western Ukraine, or the alternative is Russia has to go to the Polish border.

They haven't done anything to Georgia...... Compelling people to live under your thumb that funny want to love under your thumb is what happened and is happening in Georgia. Once again your propaganda is showing.

 

[LSU-SIU]

The fact you can't see why this is Russian propaganda is astoundingly hilarious!

It's because Russia was the only one who felt they couldn't be a country.......... Why? Because an independent Ukraine is in good way, he wants the eaten ports. The reason he didn't care about the rest and wanted sometime the to take them was to smooth things over and because the west was never in his plans anyway.

It has nothing to do with Russia, I said, matter of fact I said it more clear cut than them years ago.... which is why I told you it could take a decade or two. Logic.

It's because Russia was the only one who felt they couldn't be a country

It has nothing to do with what Russia thinks but they would have to agree, Ukraine can't exist as a neutral country because they can't survive if they are cut off.

This isn't complex.

 

[LSU-SIU]

They haven't done anything to Georgia...... Compelling people to live under your thumb that funny want to love under your thumb is what happened and is happening in Georgia. Once again your propaganda is showing.

What are you talking about, its the U.S. that is now sanctioning Georgia. Europe is threatening to cut them off even further because Georgia put in laws to track foreign money entering politics.

You keep on saying propaganda, but you don't even seem to have the basic facts of what is going on. This is the equivalent of saying Orange man bad.

The Ukraine can't be held to be independent and neutral because they can be cut off from the West, so simply put.... the Ukraine can't exist in its present form. If anything else is chosen, than the assumption is... you're just delaying instead of fixing the problem.

There is no easy fix.

 

[KB5252]

What are you talking about, its the U.S. that is now sanctioning Georgia. Europe is threatening to cut them off even further because Georgia put in laws to track foreign money entering politics.

Because the preferred, currently Russian installed leadership works against the will of the people..... Hence the unrest.

 

[KB5252]

It has nothing to do with Russia, I said, matter of fact I said it more clear cut than them years ago.... which is why I told you it could take a decade or two. Logic.



It has nothing to do with what Russia thinks but they would have to agree, Ukraine can't exist as a neutral country because they can't survive if they are cut off.

This isn't complex.

Exactly, it isn't complex. Russia wanted the ports and needed pretext to take it if Ukraine decided they didn't want Russian military bases on its soil.

It's literally that simple.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Because the preferred, currently Russian installed leadership works against the will of the people..... Hence the unrest.

No, because Georgia put in laws to track foreign money coming in to do the "coup".

They are just pawns.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Exactly, it isn't complex. Russia wanted the ports and needed pretext to take it if Ukraine decided they didn't want Russian military bases on its soil.

It's literally that simple.

Than see you at the Polish border.

Literally they don't want it, which is what they are saying now. Go annex it, but nobody wants it.

 

[BeardedVol]

They haven't done anything to Georgia......

ROFL

Military occupation of Georgia by Russia | Rulac

Interested whether South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia are occupied?Check RULAC website to know more.

www.rulac.org

 

[LouderVol]

Snowballs lasting long term in hades have a better chance of happening than Putin giving up any ground on his keeping of Crimea.

If this keeps getting insanely escalated by the West the phrase “tactical nuclear artillery” will enter the conversation if Russia truly responds back with conviction.

insanely esclated in what way?

By continuing to use weapons with no nuclear capability?
by using missiles with less range than the farthest struck targets?

the only escalations are in Russian rhetoric, nothing has functionally changed from the west/Ukraine. Russia is just feeling the pressure and has to talk a bigger game to justify their losses. Its a lot easier to sell losing 1000 men a day for years if you get people to believe your enemy is going to use nukes on you. it also lets Russia escalate their own tactics because what they are doing now isn't working.

 

[KB5252]

ROFL

Military occupation of Georgia by Russia | Rulac

Interested whether South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia are occupied?Check RULAC website to know more.

www.rulac.org

I meant Ukraine

 

[LSU-SIU]

I remain doubtful Georgia will exist, but at least they recognize the issue. They have time, maybe 4-5 years.... maybe longer now.

 

[KB5252]

Than see you at the Polish border.

Literally they don't want it, which is what they are saying now. Go annex it, but nobody wants it.

I see, ignore all the pretext, spout Russian propaganda and completely ignore the reason Russia invaded...... Ukraine's ports.

Take away their means to export and yes much of Ukraine does become very difficult to thrive economically. But that was the reason Russia invaded in the first place, to take strategic real estate they wanted.

That sets a very dangerous precedent for world relations.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I see, ignore all the pretext, spout Russian propaganda and completely ignore the reason Russia invaded...... Ukraine's ports.

Take away their means to export and yes much of Ukraine does become very difficult to thrive economically. But that was the reason Russia invaded in the first place, to take strategic real estate they wanted.

That sets a very dangerous precedent for world relations.

Then they'll just take it over once the funding stops and there is no need for Trump to talk to them.

What you are posting is the lie, nobody wants the Western Ukraine. I mean, people will take the land but you need to get those people out of there first. LOL

 

[KB5252]

Then they'll just take it over once the funding stops and there is no need for Trump to talk to them.

What you are posting is the lie, nobody wants the Western Ukraine. I mean, people will take the land but you need to get those people out of there first. LOL

For a man that talks so frequently about the evilness.........

Are you even remotely aware of what is coming out of your mouth here?

Killing off a generation because you want some ports is about as evil as it gets no?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Exactly, which is why Russia floated the idea out long ago that Poland annex western Ukraine.

Basically, Russia is like.... you take them or we blow them up. More or less what I said 1-2 years ago.

The problem is.... NOBODY wants them.

This post wins stupidest hot take of the day

 

[LouderVol]

Its not propaganda because logically what they are saying is the only way to view it.



Or the West sanctions them and cuts them off from trade and travel in the future, and then we're onto round 2 of the war. Long term this doesn't work because the Ukraine can't live on its own.

They can't be independent, meaning it must be assumed they will continue to do what they have been doing and are now starting to do to Georgia.

What Russia is saying, is exactly what I said before they said... why? Logic.

The problem isn't that Russia wants Western Ukraine, the problem is they don't want it... .and nobody else wants it, at least as a full on welfare state.

What Russia is hinting at and I am saying is the West has to take Western Ukraine, or the alternative is Russia has to go to the Polish border. That's not propaganda, that's just logic as the only thing Russia would gain from the first part is peace.

they don't have to go to the Polish border. they could just go back to the Russian border. maybe they keep Crimea if that helps them sleep at night.

Ukraine is a welfare state because Russia invaded. removing Russia removes that problem, and they could go right back to being neutral.

Ukraine was rejected by the west, and forced to stay neutral. the only reason opinion on that has changed, is because Russia changed the math with the invasion. when one side invades you, it is impossible to be neutral with them. if Russia gave a crap about a neutral Ukraine they never should have invaded.

all of Russia's issues in this matter, and Ukraines, was created solely by Russia.

neutral Ukraine is just a cover story used by the Russians to justify their imperialist expansions.