War in Ukraine

[LSU-SIU]

I don't think they wanted to "take" the whole country, just get a government installed that would be either neutral at a minimum or their ally like in Belarus.

But they did and do not want Ukraine in NATO at all.

I agree they don't want it all but there is no easy offramp...they were hoping early in the war that Poland would annex the west. But nobody wants it.

We're at the same place as we were 2.5 years ago.

Since the Ukraine and Europe don't want to talk with them....only one choice....push the Ukrainians into Poland or lose all of Russia.

Russia is all in, if they need 5 million troops they'll get them.

 

[Grand Vol]

I agree they don't want it all but there is no easy offramp...they were hoping early in the war that Poland would annex the west. But nobody wants it.

We're at the same place as we were 2.5 years ago.

Since the Ukraine and Europe don't want to talk with them....only one choice....push the Ukrainians into Poland or lose all of Russia.

Russia is all in, if they need 5 million troops they'll get them.

Poland had zero reason for a land grab (though there are some historical claims for that region).

 

[Grand Vol]

This is what it's come to for Zelensky and the EU...

 

[MontyPython]

So risk an actual nuclear war is your answer to Ukraine winning the war?

You’re absolutely correct in that Russia has no hope of winning a conventional war against NATO/US forces and Putin knows this. But are we sure Putin is stable enough to not go nuclear or he gives enough of a flock about the world not to?

The paradoxical question: Are we incapable of engaging in conventional warfare because we’re too afraid that it would result in nuclear war?

 

[Grand Vol]

And here we go lol

 

[MontyPython]

So are there only two scenarios in this war from your viewpoint? Either Russia is pushed back to the original borders or Russia takes over all of Ukraine? No gray area is not even to be considered?

Never suggested that. Freeze the front lines where they are. Ukraine wouldn’t be happy, but having 80% of their country beats 100% of nothing.

 

[MontyPython]

They gonna pony up the money for that? Actual real money? Do they have it?

Make Mexico pay for it… along with the wall *cough*

$300B of Russian money still frozen in US and European banks. Hmmm…

 

[hog88]

Go nuclear over the Ukraine? He gets removed by the Politburo/military before it gets close to that and I don’t think he anywhere close to being insane or suicidal.

You have more faith in his underlings than I do. I doubt there are many left in his inner circle that will stand up to him.

 

[MontyPython]

No on NATO. That's what Russia claims started this whole mess (and they do have a point).

I remember this meme a few years ago with something about "how dare Iran put their country in the middle of all our bases" with a map showing how all our bases in the Middle East and Central Asia surrounded Iran. While tongue in cheek, there is some truth when it comes to NATO continuing to move east to the Russian border (even before Finland joined).

Russians, by and large, are paranoid people. History shows they've been invaded and stabbed in the back for over a thousand years. They are distrustful of anyone that could be a threat on their border. Now we plop the same "enemy" they feared since pretty much WWII on almost their entire western border. How do you think they were going to react? Or will react if it happens?

Russia needs and wants a "buffer" on their western border that's not aligned with NATO. I think admitting Ukraine to NATO would be a huge mistake.

Stopped after your 1st sentence. Finland just joined NATO. That’s 830 miles of new NATO border directly abutting Russia.

Yet… crickets from Russia.

 

[apevol]

You have more faith in his underlings than I do. I doubt there are many left in his inner circle that will stand up to him.

there probably aren't

 

[MontyPython]

No on NATO. That's what Russia claims started this whole mess (and they do have a point).

I remember this meme a few years ago with something about "how dare Iran put their country in the middle of all our bases" with a map showing how all our bases in the Middle East and Central Asia surrounded Iran. While tongue in cheek, there is some truth when it comes to NATO continuing to move east to the Russian border (even before Finland joined).

Russians, by and large, are paranoid people. History shows they've been invaded and stabbed in the back for over a thousand years. They are distrustful of anyone that could be a threat on their border. Now we plop the same "enemy" they feared since pretty much WWII on almost their entire western border. How do you think they were going to react? Or will react if it happens?

Russia needs and wants a "buffer" on their western border that's not aligned with NATO. I think admitting Ukraine to NATO would be a huge mistake.

Stopped after your 1st sentence. Finland just joined NATO. That’s 830 miles of new NATO border directly abutting Russia.

Yet… crickets from Russia.

 

[MontyPython]

at that point NK fully gets involved along with China and Iran and all of their terrorist proxy's begin attacks all over the world.

What’s preventing them from doing that now?

Also of note, Great Britain signed a $2.3 billion loan for Ukrainian military supplies today that will be repaid using profits from frozen Russian assets.

 

[Grand Vol]

Stopped after your 1st sentence. Finland just joined NATO. That’s 830 miles of new NATO border directly abutting Russia.

Yet… crickets from Russia.

Finland joined NATO in response to what?

They were happily neutral until the Ukraine invasion. Same with Sweden. And frankly, neither needed to as Russia wasn't a threat to them. The Winter War of 1940 showed how it was almost impossible for an invasion to succeed in that place.

But Russia was pretty pissed about it when it happened. But the major difference is nobody has invaded Russia from that direction since the Vikings. At least not in force. But how many times have they been invaded from Eastern Europe in the last 200 years?

Dismiss the post all you want. You can't argue against it.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Poland had zero reason for a land grab (though there are some historical claims for that region).

It's not really about getting the land, it's about controlling the people....but nobody wants them. Now on the present course they would be refugees in poland.

 

[Orange_Crush]

And here we go lol

That is hillarious.

Translation: "Ukraine, get in and negotiate, or we will."

 

[Grand Vol]

It's not really about getting the land, it's about controlling the people....but nobody wants them. Now on the present course they would be refugees in poland.

Poland also knew better than to poke the proverbial bear. With the exception of the Kaliningrad Oblast, they don't have a border with Russia any longer.

Doubt they want one either...

 

[KB5252]

The paradoxical question: Are we incapable of engaging in conventional warfare because we’re too afraid that it would result in nuclear war?

I don't know if the bull in the pasture across from my house would gore me........... But I'm not going to kick him in the nuts to find out.

 

[C-south]

The paradoxical question: Are we incapable of engaging in conventional warfare because we’re too afraid that it would result in nuclear war?

Is it worth risking nuclear war over a tiny little entitled man and his country?

 

[Grand Vol]

That is hillarious.

Translation: "Ukraine, get in and negotiate, or we will."

Or Putin is trying to out-troll Trump.

 

[Grand Vol]

Is it worth risking nuclear war over a tiny little entitled man and his country?

Russia isn't dumb enough to start a nuclear war over Ukraine.

I'm not sure our MIC isn't dumb enough to think we could start one and come out winning.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Poland also knew better than to poke the proverbial bear. With the exception of the Kaliningrad Oblast, they don't have a border with Russia any longer.

Doubt they want one either...

The Russians floated the idea early in the war but that isn't going to happen. A Russian on the Duran show the other day said they would like the Baltics to come in and secure their historic portions....doubt it happens. We're still on the course that the Russians will need to push all the Ukrainians into poland...we'll see.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Russia isn't dumb enough to start a nuclear war over Ukraine.

I'm not sure our MIC isn't dumb enough to think we could start one and come out winning.

If nato is involved it will be ww3 at some point....that would mean global war. Russia can strike anywhere in the world as well.

They were never going to be a part of nato though...which makes the whole thing kind of funny.

 

[Grand Vol]

If nato is involved it will be ww3 at some point....that would mean global war. Russia can strike anywhere in the world as well.

The only way Russians use nukes is if they get invaded.

The only way they get invaded is if NATO does something stupid like admitting Ukraine.

The only way that happens is if Trump and Vance aren't in office.

 

[LSU-SIU]

The only way Russians use nukes is if they get invaded.

The only way they get invaded is if NATO does something stupid like admitting Ukraine.

The only way that happens is if Trump and Vance aren't in office.

Agree.

 

[Vol737]

The paradoxical question: Are we incapable of engaging in conventional warfare because we’re too afraid that it would result in nuclear war?

We would roll Russia in a conventional war within weeks. Putin would then be very compelled to start launching nukes. Has nothing to do with incapable. Yes, I think Russia is the agressor. Yes, I think Putin is a thug. I had hoped Ukraine could pull off a win and send Russia packing. They can’t at this point unless the rest of Europe steps up bigly. Why must we babysit the whole of Europe every single conflict?