War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ethiopia didn't want to fight and yet they were attacked. Just because you sit under a rock and hope it goes away doesn't mean it will.

If the USA sat aside in 1941, eventually at some point Germany and Japan (or likely both) would have come after the USA. It was inevitable. That is how the world works.

Possibly, but not likely. And there would have been too many things going against them if they would have tried.

And again with regards to Ethiopia, it is a big difference in being attacked and inserting yourself in a fight that is no business of yours.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Russian Empire much like the Austrian and Ottoman Empires were relics of the past that were merely delaying the inevitable. World War 1 just sped up that process for the three fledgling empires. Russia had just been embarrassed military by the Japanese at the turn of the century. France had a much larger military than Britain at the start of the war and wanted revenge for the loss of the Franco Prussian War that unified Germany. They were threatened by the growing power of a unified German state. Germany’s mistake was allying itself militarily with the Austrians. Once the British entered the war on the side of the French, Garmany’s loss was inevitable as well. The US just sped up that process. Ironically, the British Empire was the only empire to survive the war, although the French tried to hold onto their colonies following the war they never recovered militarily. France hasn’t recovered militarily to this day and I don’t know that Germany will post WW2. In some ways, US foreign policy is to be blamed for Europe’s feckless military strength post the Cold War. We simply do not have the economic capacity to fight another Cold War against Russia and China this time. Our economy has changed dramatically since the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, we simply cannot rely on our manufacturing might to overwhelm our enemies like it once could. We cannot afford to continue to be the World’s police force when other nations are more than capable of contributing much more than they currently are.

I agree that there were French concerns, as well. But Britain (at least economically and industrially) had more to lose if the German states continued on. You are correct about the British Empire being the strongest after the war, but that only bought them another 35-40 years. France still had its empire in tact in Africa and in Indochina, but also found themselves losing those in the 1950s.

The main reason why France hasn't been able to recover is because of the demographic destruction that occurred to them in WWI. Some outrageous number of men were lost in that war that were unable to replace what would eventually be needed in WWII. Britain, while still holding on to their empire, were placed into financial ruin after WWI.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I didn't, I was agreeing with you on that point. Where I disagreed was the wild conspiracy theory tangent about the USD being the world currency. If anything, that significantly helps our economy.

I disagree with it helping our "economy", but I'll save that discussion for another day. My points regarding the dollar really didn't focus on the "economy" as much as it did the "individual". As an individual, the USD system we have right now robs people of their labor and savings. Each dollar made today is worth less than the dollar made the previous day. And this system is going to push us in the direction where the next generations will be straddled with the burden of having to pay back all of this national debt through taxes and austerity measures. You can call it conspiracy theory all you want, but you would be ignoring facts.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Somewhat wrong, the German Empire's eagerness to go to war was related to their fear of Russia. Look it up. It was in their military briefings. They preferred war now rather than later out of fear that Russia would get too strong due to increasing population, industrial strength, etc.

True the Czars were losing their grip on Russia but Russia as a state was still growing strong despite the loss to Japan (which was related more to poor decision and failed logistics in getting Russia troops from their European part of the Empire to the far east) than it was to true Russian weakness. The German command of 1914 saw Russia eventually becoming what the USSR was in 1942 (something Hitler should have paid attention to).

How? What you said didn't contradict what he said.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think they should band together and conquer Russia. That’s the best possible option that solves a lot of geopolitical problems. What do you think?

Fine. As long as we stay out of it. Let them have at it. May as well let Israel and Iran go at it, also.

Meanwhile, we can be over here fixing our own problems and waiting for the dust to settle.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Fine. As long as we stay out of it. Let them have at it. May as well let Israel and Iran go at it, also.

Meanwhile, we can be over here fixing our own problems and waiting for the dust to settle.

It’s the perfect solution. Europe solves their energy problems and the world is rid of that asshat Putin.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s the perfect solution. Europe solves their energy problems and the world is rid of that asshat Putin.

So which is it? The Europeans are so inept that they need the US to lead the charge? Or in your scenario, they will band together and crush Russia?

 

[NorthDallas40]

So which is it? The Europeans are so inept that they need the US to lead the charge? Or in your scenario, they will band together and crush Russia?

There are probably 15 or 20 ethnic Germans in Russia that need protection. Europe should move in to restore order. After they do so they should hold a referendum for continuing to fly the EU flag over Moscow. I’ll bet the approval will be around… 97%?

I don’t want to see a single US soldier leading the charge. I want to see the US’s deadliest munitions in the Ukrainian hands in plentiful amounts and watch them blow those invading bastards to the north east side of Moscow.

Sounds like a perfect plan amirite?

 

[landscapingvol]

So which is it? The Europeans are so inept that they need the US to lead the charge? Or in your scenario, they will band together and crush Russia?

I don’t think anyone knows what a last gasp from a country possessing the World’s largest nuclear arsenal would look like nor do I care to find out. I am also willing to bet that 99.9% of the World’s population wouldn’t want to risk it over Ukraine or Russia. It needs to remain an Eastern European issue

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There are probably 15 or 20 ethnic Germans in Russia that need protection. Europe should move in to restore order. After they do so they should hold a referendum for continuing to fly the EU flag over Moscow. I’ll bet the approval will be around… 97%?

I don’t want to see a single US soldier leading the charge. I want to see the US’s deadliest munitions in the Ukrainian hands in plentiful amounts and watch them blow those invading bastards to the north east side of Moscow.

Sounds like a perfect plan amirite?

Sounds like a plan. A perfect plan? That is yet to be determined. I wish we were fully detached from the situation all together and not even arming and training these guys, but I'll settle for that over us getting any further involved over there.

 

[landscapingvol]

There are probably 15 or 20 ethnic Germans in Russia that need protection. Europe should move in to restore order. After they do so they should hold a referendum for continuing to fly the EU flag over Moscow. I’ll bet the approval will be around… 97%?

I don’t want to see a single US soldier leading the charge. I want to see the US’s deadliest munitions in the Ukrainian hands in plentiful amounts and watch them blow those invading bastards to the north east side of Moscow.

Sounds like a perfect plan amirite?

I know the Afghanis sure did a heck of a job using them and I am not convinced that many Ukrainians would do much differently. It’s an extremely complex political climate with many different factions.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Sounds like a plan. A perfect plan? That is yet to be determined. I wish we were fully detached from the situation all together and not even arming and training these guys, but I'll settle for that over us getting any further involved over there.

Oh it’s a beautiful sight to consider a bunch of motivated Ukrainians ridding the world of invading Russians using US munitions and then Europe taking advantage of the situation and kicking Russia’s ass.

But of course once the EU flag is flying over Moscow and the referendum has been held if the stupid ass Russians left act up they will rightly have to invoke Article 5. I mean we have to live up to our commitments I believe that is a cornerstone of your posting here.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I know the Afghanis sure did a heck of a job using them and I am not convinced that many Ukrainians would do much differently. It’s an extremely complex political climate with many different factions.

I’d guess the Taliban is willing to use them and is in fact using them as we speak. At least they are willing to fight. And I’d guess the Ukrainians fighting for their sovereign existence will man up.

 

[headhunter15]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I know the Afghanis sure did a heck of a job using them and I am not convinced that many Ukrainians would do much differently. It’s an extremely complex political climate with many different factions.

it would not surprise me at all if Ukraine ends up very similar to Afghanistan. A bunch of weapons and military training going down the drain. I could see if we were talking about Poland... their people might be unified enough to give it a good showing. But especially in the eastern provinces, just how much unity will you have amongst the people to fight Russia or protest?

 

[Orangeburst]

Contrary to what the President of Ukraine said with the MSM hype, What is going on seems like some self perpetuating calls to war..

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Oh it’s a beautiful sight to consider a bunch of motivated Ukrainians ridding the world of invading Russians using US munitions and then Europe taking advantage of the situation and kicking Russia’s ass.

But of course once the EU flag is flying over Moscow and the referendum has been held if the stupid ass Russians left act up they will rightly have to invoke Article 5. I mean we have to live up to our commitments I believe that is a cornerstone of your posting here.

No, I'm wanting us to get out of NATO for that very reason. Article 5 is a death pact.

 

[NorthDallas40]

it would not surprise me at all if Ukraine ends up very similar to Afghanistan. A bunch of weapons and military training going down the drain. I could see if we were talking about Poland... their people might be unified enough to give it a good showing. But especially in the eastern provinces, just how much unity will you have amongst the people to fight Russia or protest?

Let’s find out. There’s still some former Soviet blood coursing thru their veins. Let’s arm them to the teeth and make it an even fight. I mean after all we could tell them to give all of our stuff back once they’ve taken all the Russian equipment and have the Ukrainian flag flying over Moscow. Oh wait no that would be the EU flag. With all those NATO countries as members. In a mutual defense pact.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Let’s find out. There’s still some former Soviet blood coursing thru their veins. Let’s arm them to the teeth and make it an even fight. I mean after all we could tell them to give all of our stuff back once they’ve taken all the Russian equipment and have the Ukrainian flag flying over Moscow. Oh wait no that would be the EU flag. With all those NATO countries as members. In a mutual defense pact.

OK

 

[NorthDallas40]

No, I'm wanting us to get out of NATO for that very reason. Article 5 is a death pact.

No no no. We must live up to our commitments. Even you state that here. And once Moscow is sovereign territory of NATO members this whole situation will be forever resolved.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Contrary to what the President of Ukraine said with the MSM hype, What is going on seems like some self perpetuating calls to war..

Open warfare is weeks away. There is only a small window of time left to arm the Ukrainians. Putin will attack while the ground is frozen and it will support the weight of his armor. If we get to spring thaw with no invasion then he’ll hold off until the next opportunity. Putin’s chicken **** ass won’t attack unless he has over whelming armor advantage. So let’s get as many Javelins and TOWs in while we can.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No no no. We must live up to our commitments. Even you state that here. And once Moscow is sovereign territory of NATO members this whole situation will be forever resolved.

I'm not sure which quote you are referring to, but let me be clear... I have always been for us getting out of NATO or just disbanding NATO because of Article 5. There is no reason to follow a commitment when it is self-destructive.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I'm not sure which quote you are referring to, but let me be clear... I have always been for us getting out of NATO or just disbanding NATO because of Article 5. There is no reason to follow a commitment when it is self-destructive.

But we signed. Do we stand by our word or not? I mean we have to keep our word … right?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Open warfare is weeks away. There is only a small window of time left to arm the Ukrainians. Putin will attack while the ground is frozen and it will support the weight of his armor. If we get to spring thaw with no invasion then he’ll hold off until the next opportunity. Putin’s chicken **** ass won’t attack unless he has over whelming armor advantage. So let’s get as many Javelins and TOWs in while we can.

That makes him chicken s^^t?

 

[NorthDallas40]

That makes him chicken s^^t?

LMAO I absolutely knew that would trigger you. Thanks for taking the bait