War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

That is way off topic and probably could use its own thread. I don't 100% disagree with you but some of your discussion sounds borderline crazy/conspiracy theorist as well. National Debt is definitely our top problem.

A major European War would have drastic economic impacts on us. To say otherwise is just trolling at this point.

Hell, using my examples, explain how Ethiopia could have avoided war with Italy in 1933? They were not even in Europe or bordered Italy. They followed your stick to themselves strategy to a teeth and it did not help them.

Read my post one more time and tell me where I said or insinuated that national debt wasn't our biggest problem.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Hell, using my examples, explain how Ethiopia could have avoided war with Italy in 1933? They were not even in Europe or bordered Italy. They followed your stick to themselves strategy to a teeth and it did not help them.

Well look, now you are arguing two different points. It is far different to have to get engaged in a war when you are attacked (Ethiopia) vs getting engaged in war when you were not attacked (US entering both World Wars).

Which point do you want to argue? I'm all for defending yourself if you get attacked, BTW. I really shouldn't have to say that, but with some of you guys, you never know.

 

[NorthDallas40]

You guys are verbally fighting a war from 80 years ago like it matters today. F Europe, they are more than capable of defending themselves with up to nuclear weapons if need be. They don't need our help unless they are willing to pay dearly for it.

I’m just glad Ras has found a new playmate with which to frustrate his continual Putin sack carrying

 

[Orangeburst]

Dangit..wanted to see Armata vs Javelin

 

[NorthDallas40]

Dangit..wanted to see Armata vs Javelin

Oh i think we still will.

 

[Orangeburst]

Oh i think we still will.

What is the shelf life of a missile..I think back to 100K's of old TOWS

 

[landscapingvol]

Ugh... yes the USA did in the 1930s, it did not work.

Other countries tried it to. What about Denmark in 1940? I noticed how you ducked my post about all of the countries who tried your plan and got attacked in the past.

European nations don’t have the luxury of that policy neither do Asian ones, we are very fortunate to not be bordered by military rivals with the exception of the tip of Alaska. European nations have been more than capable of significantly beefing up their militaries post WW2 with the exception of Germany and it has post 2k. The “problem” the US now finds itself in is a direct result of Western Europe relying too heavily on US military protection especially France. It is pretty evident Germany wants no leading role in this which is quite telling considering they have the most to lose along with Poland. There is zero justification for sending US troops into a conflict that Germany chooses to sit out of and is unwilling to make sacrifices. There is a less than zero percent chance the US would commit ground troops to Ukraine but my point still stands that it needs to be spearheaded by our European allies long before the US makes any major commitments.

 

[NorthDallas40]

What is the shelf life of a missile..I think back to 100K's of old TOWS

No idea but we have exported a crap ton of Improved TOWs that are effective against reactive armor. And most of Russia’s tanks are still T-72’s I think they have very few T-14s right now. ITOW and Javelins can cut thru T-72s like butter even those retrofitted with reactive armor. They have about half as many T-80s and T-90s total but the T-72 is still their workhorse.

 

[Orangeburst]

European nations don’t have the luxury of that policy neither do Asian ones, we are very fortunate to not be bordered by military rivals with the exception of the tip of Alaska. European nations have been more than capable of significantly beefing up their militaries post WW2 with the exception of Germany and it has post 2k. The “problem” the US now finds itself in is a direct result of Western Europe relying too heavily on US military protection especially France. It is pretty evident Germany wants no leading role in this which is quite telling considering they have the most to lose along with Poland. There is zero justification for sending US troops into a conflict that Germany chooses to sit out of and is unwilling to make sacrifices. There is a less than zero percent chance the US would commit ground troops to Ukraine but my point still stands that it needs to be spearheaded by our European allies long before the US makes any major commitments.

And committed to 2% GDP for military looooong ago yet reneged..Hell of an alliance. Germany sent 150K soldiers to Afghanistan...53 deaths. Nothing but symbolic commitment to Article 5.
Let them lie in their made bed.

 

[NorthDallas40]

European nations don’t have the luxury of that policy neither do Asian ones, we are very fortunate to not be bordered by military rivals with the exception of the tip of Alaska. European nations have been more than capable of significantly beefing up their militaries post WW2 with the exception of Germany and it has post 2k. The “problem” the US now finds itself in is a direct result of Western Europe relying too heavily on US military protection especially France. It is pretty evident Germany wants no leading role in this which is quite telling considering they have the most to lose along with Poland. There is zero justification for sending US troops into a conflict that Germany chooses to sit out of and is unwilling to make sacrifices. There is a less than zero percent chance the US would commit ground troops to Ukraine but my point still stands that it needs to be spearheaded by our European allies long before the US makes any major commitments.

One day… ONE DAY the combined Mexican and Canadian invading hordes will over run us. Mark my words.

From reading a little I think Germany is trying to claim due to their history they have no desire for direct conflict in Ukraine. It doesn’t hurt that their natural gas lines would suddenly get cut off I guess.

Europe should be getting a quick lesson in why they shouldn’t be relying on Putin to heat their houses. Dumbasses…

 

[Orangeburst]

No idea but we have exported a crap ton of Improved TOWs that are effective against reactive armor. And most of Russia’s tanks are still T-72’s I think they have very few T-14s right now. ITOW and Javelins can cut thru T-72s like butter even those retrofitted with reactive armor. They have about half as many T-80s and T-90s total but the T-72 is still their workhorse.

Those wire guided munitions always fascinated me....a lot of copper and the unspooling speed is rather incredible. Think they would tangle

 

[NorthDallas40]

Those wire guided munitions always fascinated me....a lot of copper and the unspooling speed is rather incredible. Think they would tangle

Yeah. Helluva video game huh?

 

[Orangeburst]

One day… ONE DAY the combined Mexican and Canadian invading hordes will over run us. Mark my words.

From reading a little I think Germany is trying to claim due to their history they have no desire for direct conflict in Ukraine. It doesn’t hurt that their natural gas lines would suddenly get cut off I guess.

Europe should be getting a quick lesson in why they shouldn’t be relying on Putin to heat their houses. Dumbasses…

It is rather interesting in regards to the WW2 aggressors, like a pychological conflict...Japan is ramping up and Germany is just monetary power.

 

[Orangeburst]

Yeah. Helluva video game huh?

As a kid I decided to unspool my guitar pickups...I always liked tearing stuff apart. I unspooled the copper wire around a chair and thought this is a lot of wire...Old Hondo II guitar RIP.....lol

 

[BreatheUT]

If Tulsi would change a few more positions and not be a social leftist, i could vote for her.

 

[NorthDallas40]

As a kid I decided to unspool my guitar pickups...I always liked tearing stuff apart. I unspooled the copper wire around a chair and thought this is a lot of wire...Old Hondo II guitar RIP.....lol

Yep. If I remember right on TOW it’s a single conductor mag wire type of conductor. Pretty fine. Also going from memory I think it unspools from the missile so that it isn’t “dragging” behind the missile just laying down behind it.

Correction: I think it’s two wires. Can’t use just one there has to be a reference level for the signal wire.

 

[volbound1700]

Well look, now you are arguing two different points. It is far different to have to get engaged in a war when you are attacked (Ethiopia) vs getting engaged in war when you were not attacked (US entering both World Wars).

Which point do you want to argue? I'm all for defending yourself if you get attacked, BTW. I really shouldn't have to say that, but with some of you guys, you never know.

Ethiopia didn't want to fight and yet they were attacked. Just because you sit under a rock and hope it goes away doesn't mean it will.

If the USA sat aside in 1941, eventually at some point Germany and Japan (or likely both) would have come after the USA. It was inevitable. That is how the world works.

 

[landscapingvol]

WWI was essentially a war between Germany and the British Empire. The two had been building up a rivalry for the decades leading up to 1914. The British Empire was going into decline and the Germany states were rising due to their economic/industrial power. This threatened Britain. Throw in some German colonies in Africa and now parts of Britain's empire was in jeopardy there. Also throw in a buddying alliance with Germany, and The Ottomans for trying to pull energy resources out of the Middle East at the time and you had those colonies and interests of Britain at stake. All it took was all of these European intermingling alliances to get kicked of in a random event in Sarajevo for the eventual main combatants to finally get it on.

Also, another angle was that Britain could NOT allow the Russian Empire to fill the void that Germany would have left so they helped to organize a coup against the tsar. Russia and the Brits had also been rivals in the Great Game that was slowly fizzling out in Central Asia by 1914.

In essence, WWI boiled down to a last gasp effort by the Brits to maintain their empire that was in decline.

The Russian Empire much like the Austrian and Ottoman Empires were relics of the past that were merely delaying the inevitable. World War 1 just sped up that process for the three fledgling empires. Russia had just been embarrassed military by the Japanese at the turn of the century. France had a much larger military than Britain at the start of the war and wanted revenge for the loss of the Franco Prussian War that unified Germany. They were threatened by the growing power of a unified German state. Germany’s mistake was allying itself militarily with the Austrians. Once the British entered the war on the side of the French, Garmany’s loss was inevitable as well. The US just sped up that process. Ironically, the British Empire was the only empire to survive the war, although the French tried to hold onto their colonies following the war they never recovered militarily. France hasn’t recovered militarily to this day and I don’t know that Germany will post WW2. In some ways, US foreign policy is to be blamed for Europe’s feckless military strength post the Cold War. We simply do not have the economic capacity to fight another Cold War against Russia and China this time. Our economy has changed dramatically since the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, we simply cannot rely on our manufacturing might to overwhelm our enemies like it once could. We cannot afford to continue to be the World’s police force when other nations are more than capable of contributing much more than they currently are.

 

[volbound1700]

Read my post one more time and tell me where I said or insinuated that national debt wasn't our biggest problem.

I didn't, I was agreeing with you on that point. Where I disagreed was the wild conspiracy theory tangent about the USD being the world currency. If anything, that significantly helps our economy.

 

[Orangeburst]

Yep. If I remember right on TOW it’s a single conductor mag wire type of conductor. Pretty fine. Also going from memory I think it unspools from the missile so that it isn’t “dragging” behind the missile just laying down behind it.

Correction: I think it’s two wires. Can’t use just one there has to be a reference level for the signal wire.

Geeky nerd alert.

Seriously I am watching a good video and they said 600K of all variants. Just makes me wonder what they do with all this expired munitions.

I like to read YouTube comments as you get anecdotal information


"The 24-second life span of the BGM-71 TOW missile begins 1.54 seconds before the ignition as the trigger is pulled. At this point, several things happen. (1) Three batteries are activated that provide power to the electronics, the Xenon or thermal beacon and the actuator subsystem. (2) The attitude control gyro spins up to 42,000 rpm. (3) Electronic signals are balanced between the Missile Command Amplifier and the missile. Finally, the engine ignites! The tube clearance engine, located in the back of the TOW produces 15,000 lbs. of thrust for 0.35 to 0.5 seconds and burns out before it leaves the tube. At the moment the front wings finish unfolding as they spring out after leaving the tube they close an electric circuit that causes the "flight" motor to ignite. This motor has two exhaust nozzles, one on each side of the rocket about halfway up the body in order to avoid the center of gravity (Cg) changing during flight. The flight motor ignites about seven meters from the launcher. Then, when the missile has reached between 35-70 meters from the launcher, the warhead is armed by acceleration G forces from the "flight" motor. Upon capture, the TOW missile becomes a closed-loop system. The Xenon beacon and thermal beacon ( TOW 2, TOW2A ) are installed in the rear of the missiles and are detected by the Xenon detector or thermal tracker in the TSU. Two-wire dispensers are mounted on the rear of the missile at 90 and 270-degree positions. These dispensers contain 3,750 meters of single strand wire. Control surface flippers respond to signals from this wire command link. Helium powers the control actuators. The attitude gyro, which limits yaw and roll, is driven by nitrogen. The rest of the flight profile:"

 

[volbound1700]

The Russian Empire much like the Austrian and Ottoman Empires were relics of the past that were merely delaying the inevitable. World War 1 just sped up that process for the three fledgling empires. Russia had just been embarrassed military by the Japanese at the turn of the century. France had a much larger military than Britain at the start of the war and wanted revenge for the loss of the Franco Prussian War that unified Germany. They were threatened by the growing power of a unified German state. Germany’s mistake was allying itself militarily with the Austrians. Once the British entered the war on the side of the French, Garmany’s loss was inevitable as well. The US just sped up that process. Ironically, the British Empire was the only empire to survive the war, although the French tried to hold onto their colonies following the war they never recovered militarily. France hasn’t recovered militarily to this day and I don’t know that Germany will post WW2. In some ways, US foreign policy is to be blamed for Europe’s feckless military strength post the Cold War. We simply do not have the economic capacity to fight another Cold War against Russia and China this time. Our economy has changed dramatically since the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, we simply cannot rely on our manufacturing might to overwhelm our enemies like it once could. We cannot afford to continue to be the World’s police force when other nations are more than capable of contributing much more than they currently are.

Somewhat wrong, the German Empire's eagerness to go to war was related to their fear of Russia. Look it up. It was in their military briefings. They preferred war now rather than later out of fear that Russia would get too strong due to increasing population, industrial strength, etc.

True the Czars were losing their grip on Russia but Russia as a state was still growing strong despite the loss to Japan (which was related more to poor decision and failed logistics in getting Russia troops from their European part of the Empire to the far east) than it was to true Russian weakness. The German command of 1914 saw Russia eventually becoming what the USSR was in 1942 (something Hitler should have paid attention to).

 

[landscapingvol]

I didn't, I was agreeing with you on that point. Where I disagreed was the wild conspiracy theory tangent about the USD being the world currency. If anything, that significantly helps our economy.

It does help our standing as an economic power but the US is far too reliant on foreign trade to really punish the Russians but more importantly the Chinese. The Chinese could simply sanction certain key products and we would be greatly harmed.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Europe should be getting a quick lesson in why they shouldn’t be relying on Putin to heat their houses. Dumbasses…

What other reasonable option do they have right now? What other option compares to Russian LNG coming from a pipeline that is just as reliable and just as economical?

 

[landscapingvol]

Somewhat wrong, the German Empire's eagerness to go to war was related to their fear of Russia. Look it up. It was in their military briefings. They preferred war now rather than later out of fear that Russia would get too strong due to increasing population, industrial strength, etc.

True the Czars were losing their grip on Russia but Russia as a state was still growing strong despite the loss to Japan (which was related more to poor decision and failed logistics in getting Russia troops from their European part of the Empire to the far east) than it was to true Russian weakness. The German command of 1914 saw Russia eventually becoming what the USSR was in 1942 (something Hitler should have paid attention to).

Negative, Germany wanted France’s mineral rich deposits. The Russian military was inept at best and suffered heavy casualties. Russia had suffered several political and economic revolts leading up to the war. Most Russian soldiers were peasants and had no choice, Russian military leadership was abysmal. The Germans did not fear the Russian military. They feared fighting a war on two fronts. If the German command feared a communist neighbor they had an odd way of showing it considering they conspired to put Lenin in power who immediately conceded massive amounts if Russian territory to the Germans.

 

[NorthDallas40]

What other reasonable option do they have right now? What other option compares to Russian LNG coming from a pipeline that is just as reliable and just as economical?

I think they should band together and conquer Russia. That’s the best possible option that solves a lot of geopolitical problems. What do you think?