War in Ukraine

#14,979
#14,979
Velo Vol said:
Was a DOJ special council appointed three years ago to investigate alleged wrong doings, or was that my imagination?

Sorry if our system of laws and processes don't suit your political preferences.
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Actually, five years ago in May 2017 with FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation as foundation. Let's review:

J. Brennan briefed Obama and security officials, FBIs Comey and Strzok in July 2016 that H. Clinton was running a propaganda operation to smear Trump with a narrative of being a Russian asset. He also alerted FBI twice that Carter Page was an asset, no later than July 2016. The Steele dossier we know to be Russian propaganda because Steele's Russian 'source' Igor Danchenko told FBI during a Jan 2017 interview that Steele's dossier was a fictitious work of Steele's doing, not his. He has been indicted by SC J. Durham. This is why B. Barr stated the FBI knew, at latest, in Jan 2017 there was no basis for further investigation. Directors Comey, then McCabe, ignored the warnings, pressed on to use the Clinton smear campaign, and illegally use the dossier to get and extend FISA warrants on Carter Page, and thus the campaign. Both directors were fired for leaking classified info and perjury.

Brennan went on to highlight the dossier in the Jan 2017 ICA to give it a veneer of legitimacy.

Do these 'laws and processes suit you'?

OIGs - Office of General Inspector - have no criminal powers, can't talk to people outside their departmental silos or former employees, and have no power to compel testimony/cooperation. Even hamstrung thus, IG Horowitz's Dec 2019 report was damning in baring how falsification and excluding exculpatory information was employed by FBI; when asked by Sen. Crapo if such gross misconduct petitioning for FISA warrants could be accidental or simple negligence:

  • IG Horowitz’s Answer: “I’d be skeptical, but I understand why others might be skeptical of that. There is such a range of conduct here that is inexplicable and the answers we got were not satisfactory. We’re still trying to understand how all these errors could happen over 9 months and 3 handpicked teams, and the highest profile case in the FBI, while involving a presidential campaign.”
Horowitz stated he can not rule out bias given the recurring inability of those interviewed to provide satisfactory explanations. He agreed people, at minimum, should be fired. Acknowledging the FISA request falsification by FBI counsel, he concurred with Graham that the renewal of the warrant was under false pretense and therefore constituted *illegal surveillance*.

That report tipped two FISC judges _ Boasberg and Collyer - who torched the FBI's warrant applications, going so far to term the Carter Page applications "without legal basis" ; that is, they did not act lawfully. FBI attorney Clinesmith was convicted of falsifying the application to hide the fact that CIA told FBI OGC/Comey/Strzok on at least two occasions that Carter Page was an agency asset. FBI personnel involved in the applications were banned from FISC applications.

Are these laws and processes we should find suitable?

Again, as Barr stated, FBI knew there was no evidence in Jan 2017 but doubled down in an attempt to get at the president any way they could.
And today, we know the Alfa bank story was not just coincidental ad traffic, but another creation of Democrat operatives, first pushed forward candidate H. Clinton, then promoted by Jake Sullivan her foreign policy advisor. Who gave us Syria and Libya policy during the Obama admin, and is the National Security Advisor for Biden.

I'm having a hard time finding the laws and processes you revere, Velo - help me out - ?
 
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#14,981
#14,981
n_huffhines said:
Sacred cows. You don't just get to say "we felt differently about war/death back then." You think St. Peter's gonna be like, "you didn't value life so it was OK that you killed all those Indians."

I'm sure modern-day Russia feels much differently about death/war than we do and that doesn't absolve Putin.
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Per my understanding, without knowledge of sinfulness, there can be no guilt. Our modern law encapsulates this with the concept of "mens rea"

Indeed the purpose of the law is to make one aware of (ones own) sin.

Luke 12:47 and Romans 5:20, 7:7 would seem to be apropos.

We all follow as best we understand within our own time. There are many who embrace actions today that will not be judged as righteous, no matter social media mavens tell you.
 
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#14,983
#14,983
Gandalf said:
Per my understanding, without knowledge of sinfulness, there can be no guilt. Our modern law encapsulates this with the concept of "mens rea"

Indeed the purpose of the law is to make one aware of (ones own) sin.

Luke 12:47 and Romans 5:20, 7:7 would seem to be apropos.

We all follow as best we understand within our own time. There are many who embrace actions today that will not be judged as righteous, no matter social media mavens tell you.
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Ehh, I’m all for judging people based on their time, but let’s not pretend many people weren’t also aware it was wrong at the time.

Edit: I’m discussing the treatment of natives, but it also applies to slavery.
 
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#14,984
#14,984
Rasputin_Vol said:
Civil services, for the most part, are still up and running in the vast majority of places. Electricity, water, gas, etc...

Had this been a US/NATO lead operation, would you honestly be able to say the same after a week and a half? Really?
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We wouldn't be bombing apartments and women and children and houses and blowing up hospitals or almost blowing up a nuclear power plant.
 
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#14,986
#14,986
utvolpj said:
I'm in the side it's a dumb poll. No need for prices to rise given domestic opportunity

Also didn't Psaki say that it would be unfair and absurd for entities to raise prices because of taxes? Have gas taxes been cut recently?
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So just to play devil's advocate, if we stop buying Russian oil, then that's an opportunity for our domestic oil industry to produce more and fill the void, wouldn't you agree? Are you opposed to our domestic oil industry producing more?
 
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#14,987
#14,987
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
This boils down to Biden following UKs lead announcement on banning Russiaian oil.
Clearly this is not something Potato Head Biden came up with first & then have others to follow his decision. Biden is a follower ..... not a leader.
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I think it's naïve that you'd think these decisions are occurring in vacuums and they aren't all debating the pro's and cons of it all.

C'mon, you're smarter than that.
 
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#14,988
#14,988
MontyPython said:
So just to play devil's advocate, if we stop buying Russian oil, then that's an opportunity for our domestic oil industry to produce more and fill the void, wouldn't you agree? Are you opposed to our domestic oil industry producing more?
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Why would I oppose that? We should also cut the gas tax dramatically
 
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#14,989
#14,989
MontyPython said:
So just to play devil's advocate, if we stop buying Russian oil, then that's an opportunity for our domestic oil industry to produce more and fill the void, wouldn't you agree? Are you opposed to our domestic oil industry producing more?
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I’m for producing more oil but more importantly opening up more and new refineries ( which will not happen )
 
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#14,990
#14,990
MontyPython said:
So just to play devil's advocate, if we stop buying Russian oil, then that's an opportunity for our domestic oil industry to produce more and fill the void, wouldn't you agree? Are you opposed to our domestic oil industry producing more?
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Or that’ll be their excuse for soaring prices.
 
#14,992
#14,992
TrumpedUpVol said:
My support for the Ukrainian disposition ends when measures begin to negatively impact the American people.
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Mine doesn't. It'll be a temporary pain that will likely have a permanent impact on keeping despots from invading neighbors and destabilizing the worlds economy.

Nobody wants to pay more. Actions like this will also force the hand of domestic production which creates jobs and gets us energy independent - you want that right?
 
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#14,993
#14,993
NCFisher said:
Hey, old buddy; I'd still like you to articulate your argument with excerpt from the article that prove your cahoots claim. I mean, you did read it before alluding to it, right?
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The Trump campaign’s interactions with Russian intelligence services during the 2016 presidential election posed a “grave” counterintelligence threat, a Senate panel concluded Tuesday as it detailed how associates of Donald Trump had regular contact with Russians and expected to benefit from the Kremlin’s help.
“Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik, represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the report says.
 
#14,994
#14,994
tvolsfan said:
Agreed. I’d love to be carbon neutral, but if we can’t be, why not use/export our oil instead of that in the possession of foreign dictators?
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I just don’t understand it from a business perspective. I don’t show up to meetings with problems and no answers.
 
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#14,995
#14,995
Septic said:
Nobody wants to pay more. Actions like this will also force the hand of domestic production which creates jobs and gets us energy independent - you want that right?
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Oh, for sure. But the expansion of domestic oil efforts is not an overnight process, and America can (and should) work towards greater oil independence without cutting its nose to spite its face.
 
#14,996
#14,996
Hunerwadel said:
You've lost your mind if you think people like Luther are a threat to anyone's liberty. The biggest threat are extremist on both sides of the aisle and an autocrat wannabe who wants to claw his way back into the White House.
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Luther is an extremist. And yes he would vote for Obama (I assume that's the autocrat you are referencing since he was the last one to occupy the WH) again.
 
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#14,998
#14,998
Gandalf said:
Per my understanding, without knowledge of sinfulness, there can be no guilt. Our modern law encapsulates this with the concept of "mens rea"

Indeed the purpose of the law is to make one aware of (ones own) sin.

Luke 12:47 and Romans 5:20, 7:7 would seem to be apropos.

We all follow as best we understand within our own time. There are many who embrace actions today that will not be judged as righteous, no matter social media mavens tell you.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure nobody ever taught AJ that killing was bad.

So you're saying Putin is potentially absolved, then? If he's just the right amount of ignorant, then this is OK?

You know mens rea does not save you, right? You can't evade taxes out of ignorance. They just punish you more harshly if you had a "guilty mind".

I agree that you can qualify what AJ did because of the culture and the times, etc. but what he did is still ****ing evil.
 
#15,000
#15,000
Rasputin_Vol said:
Really? Or are they protecting civil infrastructure and not wanting to bomb the place into the stone ages, typical of an American invasion?

It was pointed out on the contrasts between how Russia is operating this vs the United States in Iraq. In Iraq in 2003, The US bombed continuously for several weeks before bringing in the ground troops. The Russians are opening with ground troops.

The metrics for success in our minds are based on how the invasion of Iraq was conducted in our minds, so that is part of the propaganda and distortion.
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Russian tactics are too encircle and choke out resistance. It's how they operate. They are fine with taking large losses. New they will pound the city with artillery and guided weapons.
 
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