War in Ukraine

[MontyPython]

Just stop with the lies Luther. All MSM is complete and utter garbage. All they do is lie, gaslight and create unnecessary fear.

Phew. Thank goodness you're here as the arbitrator of Truth.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Phew. Thank goodness you're here as the arbitrator of Truth.

You are so gullible

 

[KB5252]

It's impossible not to be aware of the train wreck he is on this. Especially with the recent news about the Kremlin memo.

It actually is, if you don't watch much 3 letter cable news and read from print and ignore the idiocy from both sides it's amazing how you can filter it. Read hard news ignore the fluff.


LG, you are what CNN and FOX fwap to!

 

[KB5252]

Phew. Thank goodness you're here as the arbitrator of Truth.

Please point to any of the statement you responded to that isn't correct. I'll wait over here.

 

[MontyPython]

Please point to any of the statement you responded to that isn't correct. I'll wait over here.

Fair enough. BOT stated, "All MSM is complete and utter garbage. All they do is lie, gaslight and create unnecessary fear."

If this were true, why do we have free press?
Is the 4th Estate just an illusion?
Are we all incapable of free thought, identifying narrative slants and biases, and simply need to be spoon fed a constant stream of lies?
And if that's the case, how is our system any better than Russia where the press is simply an extension of the Kremlin's narrative of "facts"?

Balderdash.

Anyone who denies the existence of free press therefore holds that the United States is an autocracy.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Jesse Watters going off on Putin right now. Guessing things around the water cooler when Tucker walks by might be kind of tense.

I don’t understand the apparent love of Tucker for Putin. Tucker is usually reading the mindset of the right very astutely. He is on a island with a very small group on this one. The vast majority of conservatives I know have no love for authoritarian thugs be they right or left. True conservatives value Freedom above all else. Putin is the total opposite of that

 

[OrangeTsar]

lol.....So you hate corporations? Or just big corporations? How big does a corporation need to be before they deserve to be hated.

“Hate” is not the word I would use. These corporations are only doing what is “logical” to do in their situation. I blame government more for allowing cronyism. A company becomes “too big” at the point where it is capable of using its lobbying and connections (and contributions) to carve out special deals and favours that materially disadvantage their competitors. That is anathema to the free market. The one real regulation of business by government (apart from child Labour and workplace safety) by government is in terms of antitrust and other anti monopoly legislation. Free markets only work when there is competition. The Sherman antitrust act was one of the cornerstone pieces of economic legislation that made America the great market that it became.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Meanwhile, them biolabs... this story is not going away. And Kudos to Tulsi for keeping it classy with that snake filth Mitt Romney.

 

[norrislakevol]

I don't have love for either country, they are both two of the most corrupt countries on earth. I do like seeing how inept and poorly coached on tactics and strategy the Russians have been though. Their conventional military isn't very impressive at all. They totally failed in the logistics department and allow themselves to be bunched up and exposed. A well equipped army like the U.S. or Brits would have destroyed that entire column quickly. They would have had to disperse (if they could) or take the fire.

 

[luthervol]

“Hate” is not the word I would use. These corporations are only doing what is “logical” to do in their situation. I blame government more for allowing cronyism. A company becomes “too big” at the point where it is capable of using its lobbying and connections (and contributions) to carve out special deals and favours that materially disadvantage their competitors. That is anathema to the free market. The one real regulation of business by government (apart from child Labour and workplace safety) by government is in terms of antitrust and other anti monopoly legislation. Free markets only work when there is competition. The Sherman antitrust act was one of the cornerstone pieces of economic legislation that made America the great market that it became.

I also blame government for allowing cronyism and making special deals that favor one over another, and I blame big corporations for for cronyism and seeking deals and favors that favor them over their competitors. They are both rooted in greed and equally abysmal.
The part I find amusing is saying that greed is good and appropriate for businesses and individuals outside of government but is the root of all evil inside of government.
Greed is the root of all evil..........period.

 

[Gandalf]

I don’t understand the apparent love of Tucker for Putin. Tucker is usually reading the mindset of the right very astutely. He is on a island with a very small group on this one. The vast majority of conservatives I know have no love for authoritarian thugs be they right or left. True conservatives value Freedom above all else. Putin is the total opposite of that

He is ahead of the curve on this one. Tucker usually has a very good read on the public mindset. In this case, he is smelling that the near uniform wave of reporting propaganda and drums beating to war - he smells a rat somewhere but can't quite place his finger on where it is coming from. But he sees the propaganda machine run by the same people who just gave us lockdowns, etc so he is suspicious that there is something behind this that is driving a result against the public good. Meanwhile the public is in the emotion of the moment and cannot yet see the forest because of the tree being shoved up their ass by every media outlet, in near sing song unison.

That is how the magician works - to distract you with the shiny object while the real trick is performed by the other hand. I suspect that the long view of history will vindicate his suspicion, much like those who questioned the whole WMD narrative that Chaney and gang were pushing.

Many forget that there are very powerful interests who benefit from wars and that in order to lead a country to war you must first demonize the other side. I only pray that America does not have to endure another costly war where we have little interest, to benefit the shadow elite.

 

[OrangeTsar]

It's pretty disgusting that Fox viewers keep looking the other way on this. I'm actually surprised in a way. Would have thought so-called patriots would maybe register their disdain for him and what he has said. But I guess their loyalty to Fox is stronger than their loyalty to the country.

Unlike liberals, conservatives can disagree with one of our own on one issue without purging them from the party. 100 percent ideological purity is a trait of the left, not of conservatives. We actually live in a big tent. Try speaking out against abortion or the LGQBLTEIEIO mafia and see how the Democrat party rewards you.

 

[OrangeTsar]

He is ahead of the curve on this one. Tucker usually has a very good read on the public mindset. In this case, he is smelling that the near uniform wave of reporting propaganda and drums beating to war - he smells a rat somewhere but can't quite place his finger on where it is coming from. But he sees the propaganda machine run by the same people who just gave us lockdowns, etc so he is suspicious that there is something behind this that is driving a result against the public good. Meanwhile the public is in the emotion of the moment and cannot yet see the forest because of the tree being shoved up their ass by every media outlet, in near sing song unison.

That is how the magician works - to distract you with the shiny object while the real trick is performed by the other hand. I suspect that the long view of history will vindicate his suspicion, much like those who questioned the whole WMD narrative that Chaney and gang were pushing.

Many forget that there are very powerful interests who benefit from wars and that in order to lead a country to war you must first demonize the other side. I only pray that America does not have to endure another costly war where we have little interest, to benefit the shadow elite.

Oh i see that too. But you can be suspicious of the propaganda and war mongering without seeming to support the war criminal in the Kremlin who let loose the dogs of war. Putin is clearly being used as a boogeyman by the neocons here, but he willingly stepped into that role.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Meanwhile, them biolabs... this story is not going away. And Kudos to Tulsi for keeping it classy with that snake filth Mitt Romney.

I see nobody outside of you discussing it here. Absolutely nobody. It’s already gone.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Unlike liberals, conservatives can disagree with one of our own on one issue without purging them from the party. 100 percent ideological purity is a trait of the left, not of conservatives. We actually live in a big tent. Try speaking out against abortion or the LGQBLTEIEIO mafia and see how the Democrat party rewards you.

Meh, I disagree to certain extent. Snakes like Mitt Romney and John McCain are the type of folks that are the problem with the GOP before Trump (incidentally, they both managed to lose to Obama) and now we are seeing those types raise their heads out of ground during this Ukraine deal. These neocons and RINOs are probably just as counterproductive or destructive as a Pelosi or AOC. They need to be purged and isolated.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I see nobody outside of you discussing it here. Absolutely nobody. It’s already gone.

That is my point. You all want to run and hide in here, but this story is going to end up gaining more steam. Not necessarily here in the states or in the West, but countries on the outside are going to chew on this and make a stink.

 

[NorthDallas40]

That is my point. You all want to run and hide in here, but this story is going to end up gaining more steam. Not necessarily here in the states or in the West, but countries on the outside are going to chew on this and make a stink.

No. No they’re not. Everyone expects RT to carry this stupid ass story. Nobody believes it.

Also you probably want to go read Tulsi’s clarification on what “bio labs” she was referring too. Womp womp.

 

[hog88]

No. No they’re not. Everyone expects RT to carry this stupid ass story. Nobody believes it.

Also you probably want to go read Tulsi’s clarification on what “bio labs” she was referring too. Womp womp.

You don't believe that we were funding GoF and bio-weapon research labs in Ukraine? I hate to tell you but this is one where Ras is correct.

 

[Gandalf]

Oh i see that too. But you can be suspicious of the propaganda and war mongering without seeming to support the war criminal in the Kremlin who let loose the dogs of war. Putin is clearly being used as a boogeyman by the neocons here, but he willingly stepped into that role.

Perhaps I missed it but I havent seen anywhere Tucker claimed that Putin or Russia was "good" before or after the invasion. Only questioning why we would be getting ourselves involved in an EU problem and that in order to stave off a possible Russia invasion, Ukraine should declare itself neutral, NATO should say Ukraine would not be a member - as these were real security issues for Putin and Russia.

Not exactly seeing how that is supporting Putin? Not sure that Putin would have called off invasion if NATO had called his bluff and said no entry for Ukraine but Biden did not seem to really try that hard to keep Putin from going to war except promise sanctions. Hell, he even said there would be blowback for MAJOR incursions, ie suspiciously like we did with Saddam and Kuwait the first time.

Dont get me wrong - Putin is the one who made the choice to go to war. He probably thinks he had good reason. I disagree and wish we and the EU had been able to present better alternatives before he made that choice.

 

[Gandalf]

Im going to put this here from my post in the other thread since this one is more likely to get read:

I would like to ask a simple question for those who might know (@Septic or others) - what is the actual difference between
1) a "biological weapons lab" and
2) a "biological research lab" that contains and researches at least anthrax and botulism (since these have been directly stated by our government)?

As someone who once owned a (pharmaceutical) research lab, if I didn't know better, it would seem the only difference is "intent to weaponize". To know the real intent would seem to require trusting our state dept flacks when they say that there was only good intent and thus good work done there?

I mean note, it went from
THERE ARE NO BIOLABS, ANYONE WHO SAYS SO IS CRAZY to
THERE ARE NO BIOWEAPONSLABS, ANYONE WHO SAYS SO IS CRAZY to
THE USA DOES NOT OPERATE ANY BIOWEAPONSLABS IN UKRAINE, ANYONE WHO SAYS SO IS CRAZY to
The USA does not directly operate any biolabs in Ukraine, though we may have funded some research in the past to help dispose of dangerous pathogens. to
Any research the USA may have funded directly or indirectly in any biolabs in Ukraine, was for research purposes ONLY, but we are rather anxious that the dangerous pathogens there like anthrax and botulism may fall into Russian hands but anything bad happening from this would TOTALLY be the fault of those bad Russians

Can you see how the average person might think there is just a little something off here or are they CRAZY?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Also you probably want to go read Tulsi’s clarification on what “bio labs” she was referring too. Womp womp.

Yeah, you didn't bother to watch the interview because she talked about that clarification on Tucker. However, to me, that is just posturing. There is a very subtle distinction people are trying to make between bio lab and bio weapons lab.

 

[LittleVol]

That is my point. You all want to run and hide in here, but this story is going to end up gaining more steam. Not necessarily here in the states or in the West, but countries on the outside are going to chew on this and make a stink.

Inconsequential at this point.

Because Russia is eventually going to use their weapons anyway. Since China is not officially helping, and Russia is in fact losing this war despite their Syrian recruitment....
Putin will go down swinging. He'll say to hell with it at this point.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Inconsequential at this point.

Because Russia is eventually going to use their weapons anyway. Since China is not officially helping, and Russia is in fact losing this war despite their Syrian recruitment....
Putin will go down swinging. He'll say to hell with it at this point.

That is an interesting take.

 

[luthervol]

Im going to put this here from my post in the other thread since this one is more likely to get read:

I would like to ask a simple question for those who might know (@Septic or others) - what is the actual difference between
1) a "biological weapons lab" and
2) a "biological research lab" that contains and researches at least anthrax and botulism (since these have been directly stated by our government)?

As someone who once owned a (pharmaceutical) research lab, if I didn't know better, it would seem the only difference is "intent to weaponize". To know the real intent would seem to require trusting our state dept flacks when they say that there was only good intent and thus good work done there?

I mean note, it went from
THERE ARE NO BIOLABS, ANYONE WHO SAYS SO IS CRAZY to
THERE ARE NO BIOWEAPONSLABS, ANYONE WHO SAYS SO IS CRAZY to
THE USA DOES NOT OPERATE ANY BIOWEAPONSLABS IN UKRAINE, ANYONE WHO SAYS SO IS CRAZY to
The USA does not directly operate any biolabs in Ukraine, though we may have funded some research in the past to help dispose of dangerous pathogens. to
Any research the USA may have funded directly or indirectly in any biolabs in Ukraine, was for research purposes ONLY, but we are rather anxious that the dangerous pathogens there like anthrax and botulism may fall into Russian hands but anything bad happening from this would TOTALLY be the fault of those bad Russians

Can you see how the average person might think there is just a little something off here or are they CRAZY?

I think everyone knew there where biolabs left over from the former Soviet Union, but not everyone knew how those former Soviet biolabs had been maintained and controlled.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Perhaps I missed it but I havent seen anywhere Tucker claimed that Putin or Russia was "good" before or after the invasion. Only questioning why we would be getting ourselves involved in an EU problem and that in order to stave off a possible Russia invasion, Ukraine should declare itself neutral, NATO should say Ukraine would not be a member - as these were real security issues for Putin and Russia.

Not exactly seeing how that is supporting Putin? Not sure that Putin would have called off invasion if NATO had called his bluff and said no entry for Ukraine but Biden did not seem to really try that hard to keep Putin from going to war except promise sanctions. Hell, he even said there would be blowback for MAJOR incursions, ie suspiciously like we did with Saddam and Kuwait the first time.

Dont get me wrong - Putin is the one who made the choice to go to war. He probably thinks he had good reason. I disagree and wish we and the EU had been able to present better alternatives before he made that choice.

I think it would have made sense to reach some agreement with Russia over Ukraine staying neutral and possibly avoiding this whole thing. It could have been an agreement with a time limit and possibility of renewal like the old non aggression treaties used to be. The west could have committed to not accepting Ukraine into NATO for the next 10 years in exchange for Putin also agreeing to demilitarize the separatist regions. The 10 year renewal window then gives both sides an incentive to not go too far in tweaking the other side (assuming of course both sides continue to desire a neutral Ukraine). I think a ring of neutral demilitarized states between Russia and NATO makes a lot of sense for both sides. After all, it was a disputed Bosnia being a political football between Austria and Serbia (being respective clients of Germany and Russia) that was the fuse for WWI. Ukraine, Belarus, and the three Baltic States could be similar flash points. Better that both sides agree to a hands off approach. (At least explicitly. There will always be the cloak and dagger stuff going on out of sight to ensure a friendly regime by both sides)