War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

At what point will it be our concern after he's continued on and took Moldova?, Belarus?, Latvia?, Lithuania?, Estonia?

Putin's said he wants all former countries of the Soviet Empire back under Russian control. If he takes Ukraine without any opposition he'll keep going.

Well time out... There would be no need for Putin to make these moves if NATO would have remained within its original borders and not crept onto Russia's backdoor.

This is a European problem. I got Joe Biden on y azz with these vaccine mandates and doing all kinds of other nonsense right here at home. I don't care what Russia does in Eastern Europe. Neither should you. We've got bigger fish to fry here in America, if you haven't noticed.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Biden To Warn Putin US Is Prepared To Move More Troops Near Russia's Border | ZeroHedge

 

[norrislakevol]

Biden To Warn Putin US Is Prepared To Move More Troops Near Russia's Border | ZeroHedge

Yeah we might want to take a step back here. We could obliterate Russia if we wanted to, but this is not the Russia of old. These are not the Soviets. China is a much bigger problem than Russia.

 

[hog88]

Yeah we might want to take a step back here. We could obliterate Russia if we wanted to, but this is not the Russia of old. These are not the Soviets. China is a much bigger problem than Russia.

We absolutely need to take a step back and let western Europe deal with it. They won't of course because Putin has them by the short hairs.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Putin To Biden: 'Finlandize' Ukraine, Or We Will | ZeroHedge

At the Kremlin last week, Putin drew his red line:

“The threat on our western borders is … rising, as we have said multiple times. … In our dialogue with the United States and its allies, we will insist on developing concrete agreements prohibiting any further eastward expansion of NATO and the placement there of weapons systems in the immediate vicinity of Russian territory.”​

​

That comes close to an ultimatum. And NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg backhanded the President of Russia for issuing it:

“It’s only Ukraine and 30 NATO allies that decide when Ukraine is ready to join NATO. … Russia has no veto, Russia has no say, and Russia has no right to establish a sphere of influence trying to control their neighbors.”​

​

Yet, great powers have always established spheres of influence. Chinese President Xi Jinping claims virtually the entire South China Sea that is bordered by half a dozen nations. For 200 years, the United States has declared a Monroe Doctrine that puts our hemisphere off-limits to new colonizations.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We absolutely need to take a step back and let western Europe deal with it. They won't of course because Putin has them by the short hairs.

How does he have them by the short hairs? Europe created their own energy problems with these green energy programs. In addition, instead of taking a belligerent stance with Russia, they could have actually opened up the pathway for mutually beneficial trade agreements. Seems like it would be far, far easier to engage in fair trade than to engage in war. Totally unnecessary moves by the US and its puppet states in Western Europe.

The Cold War is over... let's keep it that way.

 

[hog88]

How does he have them by the short hairs? Europe created their own energy problems with these green energy programs. In addition, instead of taking a belligerent stance with Russia, they could have actually opened up the pathway for mutually beneficial trade agreements. Seems like it would be far, far easier to engage in fair trade than to engage in war. Totally unnecessary moves by the US and its puppet states in Western Europe.

The Cold War is over... let's keep it that way.

you're absolutely correct. Putin has western Europe by the short hairs due to their shortsighted energy policies. But what you refuse to accept is that Putin will not stop in taking Ukraine, he will continue to advance westward unless he is stopped. I prefer that the Europeans do the stopping instead of us.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

you're absolutely correct. Putin has western Europe by the short hairs due to their shortsighted energy policies. But what you refuse to accept is that Putin will not stop in taking Ukraine, he will continue to advance westward unless he is stopped. I prefer that the Europeans do the stopping instead of us.

The borders are clear. Had the West not moved military assets into the former Warsaw Pact nations, none of this would be an issue. Russia simply is asking for military buffer states.

 

[Orangeburst]

you're absolutely correct. Putin has western Europe by the short hairs due to their shortsighted energy policies. But what you refuse to accept is that Putin will not stop in taking Ukraine, he will continue to advance westward unless he is stopped. I prefer that the Europeans do the stopping instead of us.

How short sighted can they be? Wasn’t that long ago they closed the gas deliveries during a winter

 

[hog88]

The borders are clear. Had the West not moved military assets into the former Warsaw Pact nations, none of this would be an issue. Russia simply is asking for military buffer states.

Russia has no right to decide who eastern European countries align with. They lost that right by brutalizing them for almost 50 years.

 

[hog88]

How short sighted can they be? Wasn’t that long ago they closed the gas deliveries during a winter

Very because they have always has us to bail them out.

 

[05_never_again]

The borders are clear. Had the West not moved military assets into the former Warsaw Pact nations, none of this would be an issue. Russia simply is asking for military buffer states.

If Ukraine wants to join NATO, should NATO say no because it would make Putin mad?

I do agree with you that Putin's objective here is to create a buffer, but is that not just tough s**t for him if the states he'd like to have in his buffer want to align to the West instead of him?

 

[Burhead]

If Ukraine wants to join NATO, should NATO say no because it would make Putin mad?

I do agree with you that Putin's objective here is to create a buffer, but is that not just tough s**t for him if the states he'd like to have in his buffer want to align to the West instead of him?

Ras doesn’t understand that. He feels Russia should have veto power over the sovereign decisions of Eastern Europe and the former USSR. I guarantee you countries like Poland and the Baltic’s are glad they joined NATO when they had the chance due to the resurgence of Russia. Its not NATO’s or the US fault former Warsaw Pact countries want to join and Putin doesn’t like it.

 

[05_never_again]

Ras doesn’t understand that. He feels Russia should have veto power over the sovereign decisions of Eastern Europe and the former USSR. I guarantee you countries like Poland and the Baltic’s are glad they joined NATO when they had the chance due to the resurgence of Russia. Its not NATO’s or the US fault former Warsaw Pact countries want to join and Putin doesn’t like it.

I'll let him come here and speak for himself, but I think he sees NATO as bullying or forcing Ukraine, the Baltics, etc. into an alliance with it when they don't want it, or he thinks they'd rather play a game of fence-sitting than be in an overt alliance with either side. I am not sure how we could force those countries to join NATO, but whatever.

I understand why Putin considers things like NATO expansion, missile batteries in Poland, etc. to be a provocation. The tough thing for him, as I see it, is that those countries want to them there.

If Ukraine, or any country, wants to join NATO, NATO should not be telling them no on the basis of it makes Russia angry.

 

[Burhead]

The US is preparing plans for the evacuation of Americans if/when Russia attacks per CNN.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Russia has no right to decide who eastern European countries align with. They lost that right by brutalizing them for almost 50 years.

Neither does the US... especially in affairs that are halfway around the world.

 

[Vol423]

The US is preparing plans for the evacuation of Americans if/when Russia attacks per CNN.

I would say this is what the Joe Biden Administration does best - run, but they have already proved they can't even do that correctly.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If Ukraine wants to join NATO, should NATO say no because it would make Putin mad?

I do agree with you that Putin's objective here is to create a buffer, but is that not just tough s**t for him if the states he'd like to have in his buffer want to align to the West instead of him?

Ukraine did not want to join nato in the fall/winter of 2013 when the elected Yanukovich was in power. Once he chose to turn to Russia instead of the EU and NATO, that is when the Obama State Department and their NGOs moved in to stage a coup. They tried the same nonsense in Georgia with that carpetbagger Saakashvili.

These military moves in the former Soviet states has absolutely nothing to do with US national security and everything to do with controlling energy/gas pipelines and staging weapons on Russia's doorstep to provoke a war. It is total madness.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ras doesn’t understand that. He feels Russia should have veto power over the sovereign decisions of Eastern Europe and the former USSR. I guarantee you countries like Poland and the Baltic’s are glad they joined NATO when they had the chance due to the resurgence of Russia. Its not NATO’s or the US fault former Warsaw Pact countries want to join and Putin doesn’t like it.

Staging military assets in the Baltics and Ukraine is provocative. You same people were pizzling and moaning yesterday when I posted a story about the Chinese building a naval facility in Equatorial Guinea and calling it a threat to the US. GTFOH...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'll let him come here and speak for himself, but I think he sees NATO as bullying or forcing Ukraine, the Baltics, etc. into an alliance with it when they don't want it, or he thinks they'd rather play a game of fence-sitting than be in an overt alliance with either side. I am not sure how we could force those countries to join NATO, but whatever.

Uhh, were you not paying attention in February 2014 when the US State Department sparked a coup in Ukraine?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I understand why Putin considers things like NATO expansion, missile batteries in Poland, etc. to be a provocation. The tough thing for him, as I see it, is that those countries want to them there.

The subject of Poland is a totally different discussion that Ukraine. You've got ethnic ties between Russia and Ukraine and Russian sections in the eastern part of the country that have strong ties to Russia. Poland and Russia on the other hand are enemies going back centuries and that won't be resolved anytime soon.

 

[hog88]

Neither does the US... especially in affairs that are halfway around the world.

I don't recall us forcing any of the former Soviet Bloc countries to join NATO.

 

[Vol423]

The subject of Poland is a totally different discussion that Ukraine. You've got ethnic ties between Russia and Ukraine and Russian sections in the eastern part of the country that have strong ties to Russia. Poland and Russia on the other hand are enemies going back centuries and that won't be resolved anytime soon.

Poland is on deck when Ukraine falls.

 

[05_never_again]

Ukraine did not want to join nato in the fall/winter of 2013 when the elected Yanukovich was in power. Once he chose to turn to Russia instead of the EU and NATO, that is when the Obama State Department and their NGOs moved in to stage a coup. They tried the same nonsense in Georgia with that carpetbagger Saakashvili.

These military moves in the former Soviet states has absolutely nothing to do with US national security and everything to do with controlling energy/gas pipelines and staging weapons on Russia's doorstep to provoke a war. It is total madness.

I agree that it has nothing to do with US national security. However the countries themselves want to be in these alliances with the EU/NATO. If Putin doesn't like it, well, I guess that sucks for him.

Uhh, were you not paying attention in February 2014 when the US State Department sparked a coup in Ukraine?

They got involved after the coup was sparked, and Yanukovych was ultimately legally removed from office/impeached. The public polling data out of Ukraine shows that more people in that country favor closer ties with the EU than Russia. However that country is much more split politically than other Eastern European countries like Poland or the Baltics, who are basically uniformly anti-Russian, want economic ties with the West, and want to be in NATO. For the most part, the NATO expansion that Putin sees as a threat and wants to push back against is uniformly welcomed by those countries.

I agree that Ukraine is more hairy of a situation than the other Eastern European former Soviet satellite states. Ideally, it probably should be two countries, but I doubt that outcome would be totally acceptable to Putin either (i.e., an eastern part with strong ties to Russia and the rest of the country with strong ties to the EU). At the end of the day, part of another former satellite state would have strong ties with the West.

 

[lukeneyland]

Well time out... There would be no need for Putin to make these moves if NATO would have remained within its original borders and not crept onto Russia's backdoor.

This is a European problem. I got Joe Biden on y azz with these vaccine mandates and doing all kinds of other nonsense right here at home. I don't care what Russia does in Eastern Europe. Neither should you. We've got bigger fish to fry here in America, if you haven't noticed.

NATO pissed all over the Russians 20-30 years ago which was very foolish and shortsighted. It’s sickening how politicians on both sides are trying to get us involved.