War in Ukraine

[lukeneyland]

The subject of Poland is a totally different discussion that Ukraine. You've got ethnic ties between Russia and Ukraine and Russian sections in the eastern part of the country that have strong ties to Russia. Poland and Russia on the other hand are enemies going back centuries and that won't be resolved anytime soon.

You’ve posted literally everything I’ve been thinking. Poland and Russia is as different than Tennessee and California. Ukraine and Russia is about like us and Alabama. A fair few Ukrainians also view themselves as Russians. I’d draw the line at Poland, everything east of that is not our concern

 

[Velo Vol]

U.S. troops in western Ukraine.

 

[Vol423]

U.S. troops in western Ukraine.

I'd get out quickly if I were them. Everyone has seen the great care the Biden Administration takes to ensure that Americans safely exit a combat zone.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don't recall us forcing any of the former Soviet Bloc countries to join NATO.

Ukraine 2014 and made an attempt on Georgia...

 

[Vol423]

Ukraine 2014 and made an attempt on Georgia...

I'd give Putin Georgia, but only if he agrees to take Florida too.

 

[85SugarVol]

Russia has no right to decide who eastern European countries align with. They lost that right by brutalizing them for almost 50 years.

They lost that when they lost the Cold War. The brutality they exhibited only enforces it.

 

[VolStrom]

Even if Ukraine was a NATO member, not a damn soul in Europe would send anyone to defend them. It's the US against everyone else, so eff em.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Poland is on deck when Ukraine falls.

I can't call that one way or the other. I think that is a special situation. I think Putin is wise enough to not maintain his buffers in Ukraine and Belarus. Poland, with some cooperation from the US could agitate/provoke things more.

My hope is that cooler heads prevail, but that Poland/Russia situation can be sparked by either side.

 

[Velo Vol]

Figures.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

They got involved after the coup was sparked, and Yanukovych was ultimately legally removed from office/impeached.

Oh that's nonsense right there. Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt were discussing who they were going to install as the puppet leader of Ukraine within days of Maidan. Are you kidding me right now?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

NATO pissed all over the Russians 20-30 years ago which was very foolish and shortsighted. It’s sickening how politicians on both sides are trying to get us involved.

They did this in the early 90s when they figured the Rissians were vulnerable and had that drunk Yeltsin in charge while they planned on looting what they could in Russia. That's why you hate these clowns talking about there never was an agreement to not expand NATO into the former Soviet states because it wasn't in writing or it wasn't anything formalized. That's bogus and explains why no one trusts anything this country says because our word doesn't mean diddly squat.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The US is preparing plans for the evacuation of Americans if/when Russia attacks per CNN.

LOL, talking about this current govt evacuating citizens? Really?

 

[85SugarVol]

They did this in the early 90s when they figured the Rissians were vulnerable and had that drunk Yeltsin in charge while they planned on looting what they could in Russia. That's why you hate these clowns talking about there never was an agreement to not expand NATO into the former Soviet states because it wasn't in writing or it wasn't anything formalized. That's bogus and explains why no one trusts anything this country says because our word doesn't mean diddly squat.

Still clinging to that “agreement” that doesn’t exist?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

They lost that when they lost the Cold War. The brutality they exhibited only enforces it.

And how long are we going to waste resources trying to hold a grudge against Soviets from an empire that crumbled 30 years ago? We've spent 75 years in Japan and Germany trying to fight the ghosts of Hitler and Hirohito, 70 years on the Korean Peninsula, 30 years in Iraq, just left Afghanistan after 20 years, and now we are setting up a standoff on the Russia/Ukraine border?

 

[lukeneyland]

They did this in the early 90s when they figured the Rissians were vulnerable and had that drunk Yeltsin in charge while they planned on looting what they could in Russia. That's why you hate these clowns talking about there never was an agreement to not expand NATO into the former Soviet states because it wasn't in writing or it wasn't anything formalized. That's bogus and explains why no one trusts anything this country says because our word doesn't mean diddly squat.

We could have entirely changed our relationship with Russia for the betterment of the world and Instead we were spiteful fools. I hope the price of our foolishness isn’t blood

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Still clinging to that “agreement” that doesn’t exist?

The agreement was made. Everyone knows it was understood and made clear at the time. But it wasn't put in writing.

 

[lukeneyland]

They lost that when they lost the Cold War. The brutality they exhibited only enforces it.

One of the problems is that they never truly lost it. No other country is in position to contend with them in that region.

 

[Burhead]

The agreement was made. Everyone knows it was understood and made clear at the time. But it wasn't put in writing.

Then there was no "agreement".

 

[Burhead]

NATO pissed all over the Russians 20-30 years ago which was very foolish and shortsighted. It’s sickening how politicians on both sides are trying to get us involved.

So NATO is "pissing" over Russia because former Warsaw Pact countries wanted to join to avoid another round of Russian domination? Again Russia has no say on what sovereign countries can or can not do.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Then there was no "agreement".

Our word is worth nothing.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So NATO is "pissing" over Russia because former Warsaw Pact countries wanted to join to avoid another round of Russian domination? Again Russia has no say on what sovereign countries can or can not do.

And the US should have no say in what other countries decide. But we seemed to butt our noses in Crimea, Ukraine and Georgia... as well as many other places around the globe since the end of WWII.

 

[Burhead]

Our word is worth nothing.

Even you can't be this naive. If something that important was agreed to it should have been properly recorded and put into official treaty language.

 

[Burhead]

And the US should have no say in what other countries decide. But we seemed to butt our noses in Crimea, Ukraine and Georgia... as well as many other places around the globe since the end of WWII.

What did we do Crimea?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Even you can't be this naive. If something that important was agreed to it should have been properly recorded and put into official treaty language.

I'll let you defend that stance. The Russians are not the only ones that knew of this unwritten agreement. Again, what does that say about us as a people when we don't keep our word, but instead hide behind "I had my fingers crossed"/"It wasn't in writing"?

 

[Burhead]

I'll let you defend that stance. The Russians are not the only ones that knew of this unwritten agreement. Again, what does that say about us as a people when we don't keep our word, but instead hide behind "I had my fingers crossed"/"It wasn't in writing"?

I don't care what it says about us. If there was not a written and signed to agreement then there is no agreement to prevent eastward expansion of NATO. Hell you sign more paperwork to buy a house than apparently conducting strategic geopolitical actions that potentially effects millions, if not billions, of people.