War in Ukraine

[volbound1700]

Has they gone in with shock and awe US tactics, it would have been a total mess made of Kiev.

This is why I am less worried about Russia now. Their army is a paper tiger in the scheme of things. Apparently they lack a lot of logistical equipment and the Russian troops are unmotivated.

 

[Septic]

So the corrupt media said this... not a Russian official?

Got it.

LOL at you trying to pour sugar on this turd and pass it off as candy. No ones going to take a bite dude - we all know the truth.

Russian officials that told pooty it would be a cake walk are turning big rocks into small rocks in some gulag in Siberia.

 

[KB5252]

A week? Got a link to anyone saying a week?

The goal was to cut the head off the snake. They sent in the Wagner group and the Chechen mercenaries to liquidate the Ukrainian president the first week. They intended for this to be over very quickly but they got bogged down.

 

[Velo Vol]

Feb 15

Pretty big "if" there, but OK.

 

[KB5252]

You (or most of you) don't care about the killing of innocents. Or I should say, you only care about the killing of certain people.

So you're saying we shouldn't care now? Just because we or I may have been wrong before people deserve to die now?

There are semantics we could discuss but at the end of the day your argument here is because we didn't get it right in the past we should stay that course and continue to get it wrong now. Seriously, what kind of sense does that make?

 

[LittleVol]

So the corrupt media said this... not a Russian official?

Got it.

That's not the point. You asked who was saying it.

Now, Putin himself has said everything is going to plan. So yes there's a contradiction there obviously.


Do you seriously just sit and argue with people all day???

Jesus Christ man...

 

[Johncarter53]

Has they gone in with shock and awe US tactics, it would have been a total mess made of Kiev.

That may be what’s coming if there’s no deal. It’s taking longer than Putin wanted but what’s he got to lose at this point.

 

[Sandman 423]

I thought we weren't supposed to care. Nationalism baby.

I don't think we should. However, I do think that people should try to stay consistent. I'm simple like that.

 

[evillawyer]

Message to Modi from US should be

 

[PKT_VOL]

If the goal is to destroy Ukraine the nation, it's doing a good job of that.

That wasn't the original goal, but that seems to be their new/shifted goal. Plans change when you get hit in the mouth.

 

[Johncarter53]

 

[luthervol]

You are talking about issuing bluffs.

Isn't that what Putin has been doing?

 

[luthervol]

Who other than Ukraine is advocating for a no fly zone right now?

A lot of people, even many from our own congress.

 

[Septic]

Message to Modi from US should be

Yeesh - I'm not sure I'd want to tie my raft to a sinking titanic.

 

[Septic]

That would probably be terrifying to anyone without a television that's not watched Russia get BF'd for the last three weeks. Russian soldiers going to ride bicycles into Bosnia?

 

[KB5252]

Yeesh - I'm not sure I'd want to tie my raft to a sinking titanic.

Apparently they do not believe the ship is sinking.

 

[TheDeeble]

A lot of people, even many from our own congress.

And the NATO/European countries that would actually enforce a no fly zone and face combat with Russian airplanes are against it.

So the people that are for it wouldn't actually be fighting and wouldn't immediately face a negative effect of military escalation.

 

[Septic]

That wasn't the original goal, but that seems to be their new/shifted goal. Plans change when you get hit in the mouth.

The ole' If I can't have it, neither can you scorched earth strategy.

 

[volgr]

For anyone interested

Putin Tells European Official That He Could ‘Take Kiev in Two Weeks’ (Published 2014)

Putin Boasts of Being Able to Take Kiev in 2 Weeks

US warns Russian invasion could see Kyiv fall in days, leave 50,000 civilians dead | The Times of Israel

Russia probably should have done this incursion when they took Crimea. Had they done so, it would have been much easier. Could they have taken Kiev in 2 weeks? Maybe.

Putin has a tough needle to thread. He could have taken Kiev quickly but the civilian losses would have been huge and the chance those huge civilian losses would have caused the US/NATO to join in Ukraine's defense would be high. He has taken a sloweer methodical approach. Surround key areas and slowly squeeze, all the while trying to negotitate favorable terms.

 

[KB5252]

That would probably be terrifying to anyone without a television that's not watched Russia get BF'd for the last three weeks. Russian soldiers going to ride bicycles into Bosnia?

I think it wouldn't be a bad choice for them to call his bluff, the last Putin needs is a second front and escalation of an unpopular war. This posturing could be Putin's demise domestically.

 

[volgr]

That wasn't the original goal, but that seems to be their new/shifted goal. Plans change when you get hit in the mouth.

Sadly the US has only exacerbated this outcome.

 

[volgr]

40% of Americans polled approved imposing a no-fly. However, once they were told what a no-fly was and the likely outcome of imposing it, only 23% approved.

 

[Gandalf]

That may be what’s coming if there’s no deal. It’s taking longer than Putin wanted but what’s he got to lose at this point.

Yes, the game plan changed once they figured out that it was not the welcome they had been told it would be. Now it is the slow grind to build support lines, surround and cut off major cities. Surround Kyiv with everyone of importance in it, obliterate a few other cities to show what will happen and then negotiate a surrender on the terms they want or flatten Kyiv. Sounds like about 6 more weeks at the current rate.

I am sure Zelenski knows this too and that the only hope Ukraine has is for greater powers to enter the war. In the meantime, Ukrainians can buy time through fierce resistance but nothing will change unless the USA enters the war. Zelenski is playing Churchill. I dont blame him but it is not in our interests to go to war on Ukraine's behalf.

For those who say, sure Russia may take Ukraine but cant keep it due to resistance - I dont think Putin has any intention of keeping it. He wants to remove the current government, put in a pro-Russian government of Ukrainians and then leave. Key is that Ukraine pledges to be neutral and allow no foreign power to have interests there. Then he leaves the smoking wasteland that they have created. Hopefully, Kyiv is still intact. That, I suspect, is the plan now.

Problem is, that doesnt work for the neo-hawks in the USA, who are shadow running this thing, using the Ukrainians as cannon fodder to expand NATO's territory. Zelenski has already started talking about Ukraine being a neutral zone that will never be in NATO but some American legislators are frowning at that.

Sad thing to me is no matter who "wins" this proxy war between greater powers, the people of Ukraine end up losing.

 

[Septic]

Sadly the US has only exacerbated this outcome.

By helping a sovereign country defend itself from a bully? Perhaps your ilk is used to rolling over, Ukrainians have self respect.

Completely unrelated question - are you French?

 

[volgr]

By helping a sovereign country defend itself from a bully? Perhaps your ilk is used to rolling over, Ukrainians have self respect.

Completely unrelated question - are you French?

They arent a sovereign nation, they are a Western proxy state currently being used as Russian cannon fodder.