Wars, genocide, reparations, etc (split from recruiting forum)

[Jackcrevol]

Oh give me a break. The poorest Americans live better than 99% of people on earth ever have throughout history.

It means it’s ridiculous to suggest capitalism puts you in perpetual servitude when your life is great in comparison to every other economic system ever used, by far.

Played by Jon Hartford, acted by JC's own Ed Snodderly. The war cry (of the right).

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

All Married Men are Slaves.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

They're not wrong. Unless you're at the top (a true 1 percenter), capitalism is economic servitude. You will be bound and owned by the system in exchange for cash. That's just how things work. However, athletes aren't unique in this experience. They're far from the only ones to have ever felt desperate to keep a job for the sake of someone (or several someones) they loved. If anything, they get treated far better than the average American. The fact that they even get to negotiate their terms speaks to how much higher up they are than the average -- negotiated contracts are for the well off and those with union jobs. Otherwise, you get what your boss says and get fired on a whim in half the states.

We can make the system better with regulations but it is what it is and so far the world hasn't come up with a substitute that does much better. Only mixed economies and/or a more regulated, people friendly version of capitalism.

Too many times people think their situation is unique. In this case, it's athletes. But all that argument does is divide. They'd be better off talking about changing things for everyone. Because being fired on a whim and/or having to scrape by on substandard wages is something a lot of us have in common. Even those with good jobs share the experience of trying to make ends meet within a system designed to suck you dry and drain you of every penny you've ever had.

If we're gonna use the term "slave" that loosely then what economic system can we create where there are no "slaves."

 

[GVol1966]

They're not wrong. Unless you're at the top (a true 1 percenter), capitalism is economic servitude. You will be bound and owned by the system in exchange for cash. That's just how things work. However, athletes aren't unique in this experience. They're far from the only ones to have ever felt desperate to keep a job for the sake of someone (or several someones) they loved. If anything, they get treated far better than the average American. The fact that they even get to negotiate their terms speaks to how much higher up they are than the average -- negotiated contracts are for the well off and those with union jobs. Otherwise, you get what your boss says and get fired on a whim in half the states.

We can make the system better with regulations but it is what it is and so far the world hasn't come up with a substitute that does much better. Only mixed economies and/or a more regulated, people friendly version of capitalism.

Too many times people think their situation is unique. In this case, it's athletes. But all that argument does is divide. They'd be better off talking about changing things for everyone. Because being fired on a whim and/or having to scrape by on substandard wages is something a lot of us have in common. Even those with good jobs share the experience of trying to make ends meet within a system designed to suck you dry and drain you of every penny you've ever had.

Bull crap ! You choose to participate in the system.
Slaves don’t have a choice.
Any one spewing this crap or anyone giving a platform to spew this crap needs to be put in real chains and forced to work.

The real slavery today is real slavery.
Women and children kidnapped, bought and sold and forced to do things against their will

 

[UTProf]

Bull crap ! You choose to participate in the system.
Slaves don’t have a choice.
Any one spewing this crap or anyone giving a platform to spew this crap needs to be put in real chains and forced to work.

The real slavery today is real slavery.
Women and children kidnapped, bought and sold and forced to do things against their will

You really don't have a choice with our system either unless you want to starve. But y'all aren't reading the entirety of my post - I said it's the best mankind has at the moment. However, that doesn't make it perfect or even all that great. We're all bound by the system (well unless you were born with a trust fund).

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

don’t like travis but the clip speaks for itself. The entitlement of these fools is insane. Who knew you had to honor your commitment and do what your boss tells you at a JOB

They are insane

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

They're not wrong. Unless you're at the top (a true 1 percenter), capitalism is economic servitude. You will be bound and owned by the system in exchange for cash. That's just how things work. However, athletes aren't unique in this experience. They're far from the only ones to have ever felt desperate to keep a job for the sake of someone (or several someones) they loved. If anything, they get treated far better than the average American. The fact that they even get to negotiate their terms speaks to how much higher up they are than the average -- negotiated contracts are for the well off and those with union jobs. Otherwise, you get what your boss says and get fired on a whim in half the states.

We can make the system better with regulations but it is what it is and so far the world hasn't come up with a substitute that does much better. Only mixed economies and/or a more regulated, people friendly version of capitalism.

Too many times people think their situation is unique. In this case, it's athletes. But all that argument does is divide. They'd be better off talking about changing things for everyone. Because being fired on a whim and/or having to scrape by on substandard wages is something a lot of us have in common. Even those with good jobs share the experience of trying to make ends meet within a system designed to suck you dry and drain you of every penny you've ever had.

Didn't know you were a commie

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Oh give me a break. The poorest Americans live better than 99% of people on earth ever have throughout history.

Boom!

 

[Glitch]

They are insane

I mean, I know things are far from perfect in this country, but if you can't see that we are light years farther along than we were even 40 years ago then there is no hope for you.

Not directed at you @Ulysees E. McGill

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I mean, I know things are far from perfect in this country, but if you can't see that we are light years farther along than we were even 40 years ago then there is no hope for you.

Not directed at you @Ulysees E. McGill

I knew what you meant...these ideas are dangerous. These idiots think they are going to destroy and remake society into their utopian fantasy...but what is going to happen is civil war on a world wide scale with civilization crumbling back to the stone age, war will destroy the infrastructure of civilization, and the inevitable food supply and energy problems that will then happen will kill billions.

It will devolve back to warlords destroying lives and actually enslaving the pitiful survivors.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

I knew what you meant...these ideas are dangerous. These idiots think they are going to destroy and remake society into their utopian fantasy...but what is going to happen is civil war on a world wide scale with civilization crumbling back to the stone age, war will destroy the infrastructure of civilization, and the inevitable food supply and energy problems that will then happen will kill billions.

It will devolve back to warlords destroying lives and actually enslaving the pitiful survivors.

No need to sugarcoat it. Tell us what you really think.

 

[Glitch]

I knew what you meant...these ideas are dangerous. These idiots think they are going to destroy and remake society into their utopian fantasy...but what is going to happen is civil war on a world wide scale with civilization crumbling back to the stone age, war will destroy the infrastructure of civilization, and the inevitable food supply and energy problems that will then happen will kill billions.

It will devolve back to warlords destroying lives and actually enslaving the pitiful survivors.

Gonna start brushing up on my warlord skillz...

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Gonna start brushing up on my warlord skillz...

I don't really think that is what is going to happen..

You know I believe what you believe as far as what's coming...how exactly it plays out and how quickly it is coming is something we don't know. If I DIDN'T believe what I do....this is the dystopian future I see us easily falling into.

I don't want to derail this that direction...so I'm just going to leave it.

 

[Glitch]

I don't really think that is what is going to happen..

You know I believe what you believe as far as what's coming...how exactly it plays out and how quickly it is coming is something we don't know. If I DIDN'T believe what I do....this is the dystopian future I see us easily falling into.

I don't want to derail this that direction...so I'm just going to leave it.

Well, maybe we will meet in paradise. I plan to be there.

 

[Jackcrevol]

They are insane

that was over the top, for sure.

 

[Orange_Crush]

don’t like travis but the clip speaks for itself. The entitlement of these fools is insane. Who knew you had to honor your commitment and do what your boss tells you at a JOB

WTH?

Do they realize how they are undermining the evils of actual cartel slavery with this stuff?

That's about like a Jew comparing contract law to the Nazi gas chambers. Other Jews would stand in line to kick their ass.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You really don't have a choice with our system either unless you want to starve. But y'all aren't reading the entirety of my post - I said it's the best mankind has at the moment. However, that doesn't make it perfect or even all that great. We're all bound by the system (well unless you were born with a trust fund).

You said they aren't wrong in comparing capitalism to cartel slavery. You've jumped the shark.

 

[UTProf]

You said they aren't wrong in comparing capitalism to cartel slavery. You've jumped the shark.

They didn't mention chattel slavery. Not in any proper sense of the word. They mentioned trading one form of servitude for another. It's downright delusional, or at least naive, to deny that our economic system doesn't bind you because it does. That doesn't mean it isn't the better option either. Things can be the best of a ton of crappy options. At least what we have offers the chance at golden bonds which is what most athletes have.

 

[Orange_Crush]

They didn't mention chattel slavery. Not in any proper sense of the word. They mentioned trading one form of servitude for another. It's downright delusional, or at least naive, to deny that our economic system doesn't bind you because it does. That doesn't mean it isn't the better option either. Things can be the best of a ton of crappy options. At least what we have offers the chance at golden bonds which is what most athletes have.

You're serious? A woman of color saying "The new slave chains"...

OK. Whatever. No sense trying to have a discussion if you want to try to play coy to the point of disingenuous.

 

[UTProf]

You're serious? A woman of color saying "The new slave chains"...

OK. Whatever. No sense trying to have a discussion if you want to try to play coy to the point of disingenuous.

Chattel slavery is a specific thing. Slave chains are another thing altogether as is wage slavery and economic slavery amongst other types of slavery. Given that the woman in color in question along with several million people of color aren't being sold off or into traditional chattel slavery along with the offspring of the mother determining the slave/free status of the child, it's clear she's not talking about traditional chattel slavery as practiced in the Americas. I'm not being coy at all.You're ignoring the obvious metaphor.

She's clearly talking about today rather than the past.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Chattel slavery is a specific thing. Slave chains are another thing altogether as is wage slavery and economic slavery amongst other types of slavery. Given that the woman in color in question along with several million people of color aren't being sold off or into traditional chattel slavery along with the offspring of the mother determining the slave/free status of the child, it's clear she's not talking about traditional chattel slavery as practiced in the Americas. I'm not being coy at all.You're ignoring the obvious metaphor.

She's clearly talking about today rather than the past.

Of course she's talking about today. She's saying that contracts today are the NEW slave chains. I wonder what OLD slave chains that this woman of color is comparing contracts to...?

WTH?

Do they realize how they are undermining the evils of actual cartel slavery with this stuff?

That's about like a Jew comparing contract law to the Nazi gas chambers. Other Jews would stand in line to kick their ass.

That was my point. She is obviously comparing modern contracts to chattel (cattle) slavery where people were owned, kept in chains, and abused. It's a despicable comparison, which was my point.

 

[UTProf]

Of course she's talking about today. She's saying that contracts today are the NEW slave chains. I wonder what OLD slave chains that this woman of color is comparing contracts to...?



That was my point. She is obviously comparing modern contracts to chattel (cattle) slavery where people were owned, kept in chains, and abused. It's a despicable comparison, which was my point.

You're being far too literal. She's talking about economic servitude which in fact we ALL endure via the nature of the system. White and black alike have chains placed around our necks from it. Doesn't mean it's not the best we've got but that's what it is. Unless you're the 1 percent of the 1 percent, you're enduring some form of economic servitude.

That is why she's calling it the NEW slave chain. And cf. my first post on this, she's making a mistake by thinking it's unique to athletes. If anything they're in a privileged position compared to most other people.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You're being far too literal. She's talking about economic servitude which in fact we ALL endure via the nature of the system. White and black alike have chains placed around our necks from it. Doesn't mean it's not the best we've got but that's what it is. Unless you're the 1 percent of the 1 percent, you're enduring some form of economic servitude.

That is why she's calling it the NEW slave chain. And cf. my first post on this, she's making a mistake by thinking it's unique to athletes. If anything they're in a privileged position compared to most other people.

I'm being literal because she literally compared million-dollar optional contracts that provide her and her family above-average lifestyles to the plights of her ancestors who were captured/forced/born into inhumanity, abuse, rape, etc, with no human rights.

Again, it's like a Jewish banker comparing financial laws to Nazi gas chambers. It's not literal. It's a metaphorical comparison. That doesn't make it any less tasteless or just plain stupid and antithetical to any thinking person taking them seriously.

 

[UTProf]

I'm being literal because she literally compared million-dollar optional contracts that provide her and her family above-average lifestyles to the plights of her ancestors who were captured/forced born into inhumanity, abuse, rape, etc, with no human rights.

Again, it's like a Jewish banker comparing financial laws to Nazi gas chambers. It's not literal. It's a metaphorical comparison. That doesn't make it any less tasteless or just plain stupid and antithetical to any thinking person taking them seriously.

You're being literal because you're choosing to be literal. What she mentioned is an old idea. It's not new or even radical. There are far more forms of slavery than the chattel slavery that took place in the Americas which in terms of history is a fairly new form of slavery. Simply bringing up the idea of economic servitude is not the same as saying your plight is the same as someone forced to work the fields of a plantation and give birth to Massa's offspring.

If she'd said as much I'd be with you on calling it despicable but that's not the argument she was making.

 

[UTProf]

Didn't know you were a commie

Let me put this in white guy (this is all she's saying):




And I'm no commie. I am a cynic and a realist though. Our system is far from perfect. That doesn't mean it's not the best of what's out there. Something can be both broken and the best we have.