Wealth Tax

#101
#101
AshG said:
That's partly because the fear porn media calls everything to the left of corporatism "socialism." What is happening in those countries is social democracy. They have decided, as a country, that keeping their citizens healthy, fed, and educated to the highest possible level is good for everyone. All boats rise. As a result they have lower suicide rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower divorce rates, longer life spans, and overall greater satisfaction with life.

America offers infinite possibilities for individuals to do great things. Amazing things. Rags to riches stories abound here more than anywhere else. But we're so focused on the individual level Uber Alles that those who are community minded get labeled as outsiders.

I don't want crazy tax systems to put a rich guy's money in my pocket. I also don't want to be in the situation I'm in now where I am having a cellulitis attack in the wrong state and won't be back within insurance range until Thursday. I want to see industry move in and fill up the local industrial parks. I also don't want to have to raise my taxes so we can sweeten the deal to beg a business that turns a profit to move in there.

Yes, there needs to be some kind of campaign that brings people on board. Reagan's trickle down has become a joke, and welfare queen an epithet. Convince the masses that the rich don't hate them and that there are local private entities that can take the place of slow government bureaucracy and you'll start to get somewhere.
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This nation is probably the most prosperous in the world history. The line "trickle down" is much more successful than "trickle up".
 
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#102
#102
hog88 said:
@lawgator1 The reality is the federal government should not be collecting taxes directly from individuals, none, zero, nada. It should be generating it's revenue through tariffs and fees (that are outlined in the constitution) and the individual state/territory governments. All individual taxes should be paid only to the local and state treasuries and from there kicked up to the Don. I haven't got the details of how much each state would kick up worked out just yet.
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That penalizes the poor (relative to the way that income taxes are SUPPOSED to work) because everyone has a basic set of needs for food, housing, etc., and so people on the bottom end of the economic ladder are paying proportionately much more than their wealthy counterparts, relative to their incomes.

The wealth gap in this country is becoming so extreme as to be dangerous to people "buying into" the belief that our economic system is meritorious and reasonably fair. Whatever solution you come up with must adjust taxation in an UPWARD direction, not downward. A proposal that benefits the wealthiest will go over like a lead balloon at this point.
 
#103
#103
lawgator1 said:
That penalizes the poor (relative to the way that income taxes are SUPPOSED to work) because everyone has a basic set of needs for food, housing, etc., and so people on the bottom end of the economic ladder are paying proportionately much more than their wealthy counterparts, relative to their incomes.

The wealth gap in this country is becoming so extreme as to be dangerous to people "buying into" the belief that our economic system is meritorious and reasonably fair. Whatever solution you come up with must adjust taxation in an UPWARD direction, not downward. A proposal that benefits the wealthiest will go over like a lead balloon at this point.
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Penalize the poor? Well hello Mr Inflation!
 
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#104
#104
05_never_again said:
I don't disagree. It just seems like the battle is being lost without much of a fight though.

I don't really see much of an attempt to go to the Occupy Wall Street crowd, for example, and explain to them how they were sold a bill of goods surrounding college. It's OK to even play to their vanity/sense of entitlement and tell them that their predicament isn't entirely their fault. Tell them they were sold a bill of goods by colleges, guidance counselors, the media, the government, etc. at an impressionable age, because that's kind of true. All the left is doing is taking their anger and channeling it at the people/concepts they want it channeled at.

It's still tough though because the right will not give them what they want, which is wiping out their college debt. The other side, in addition to telling them what they want to hear, claims to want to give them what they are asking for as well.
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I don't know how to battle for the hearts and minds of those who are, at their core, anti freedom, anti capitalist, and anti American. I don't even know if it's possible to win that battle. It may not even be necessary.
We move to DS because of our state and federal politicians. We move to DS because D and R voters have agreed to the principle that government exists to take care of us.
We aren't moving to DS because of the covetous rabble who rattle their hammers & sickles in the streets and on social media.
 
#105
#105
lawgator1 said:
That penalizes the poor (relative to the way that income taxes are SUPPOSED to work) because everyone has a basic set of needs for food, housing, etc., and so people on the bottom end of the economic ladder are paying proportionately much more than their wealthy counterparts, relative to their incomes.

The wealth gap in this country is becoming so extreme as to be dangerous to people "buying into" the belief that our economic system is meritorious and reasonably fair. Whatever solution you come up with must adjust taxation in an UPWARD direction, not downward. A proposal that benefits the wealthiest will go over like a lead balloon at this point.
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How does leaving it up to the states hurt the poor? States should be collecting the revenue they need to operate, run their social programs ext and the federal govt should be funded by tariffs, fees and payments from the states.
 
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#107
#107
Norway is top 25 in proven oil reserves but has a population below 6 million… around the 120th most populated country in the world. Their high standard of living isn’t about the experimentation with socialistic policies. It’s about a culture of being selective about who gets in. Not too many welfare mothers with a dozen kids by 10 baby daddies in their system.
 
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#111
#111
hog88 said:
I just want the federal government reduced in size and power to it's original design. Reduced to a point where to the average person it doesn't matter who's in the WH or controlling congress because they can't really do anything that affects our lives.
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What you want will take a reduction in the world population by about 75%.
 
#113
#113
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Norway is top 25 in proven oil reserves but has a population below 6 million… around the 120th most populated country in the world. Their high standard of living isn’t about the experimentation with socialistic policies. It’s about a culture of being selective about who gets in. Not too many welfare mothers with a dozen kids by 10 baby daddies in their system.
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Exactly. If the US had 6 million white people rich off oil, I suspect our rates would be positive too
 
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#115
#115
lawgator1 said:
Reasonable.

Do you think they pay ANYWHERE near that?

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Are you suggesting the incredibly wealthy pay less than 10% tax on their income?
 
#116
#116
McDad said:
I don't follow. Can you expand your premise a bit?
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The Welfare OR Social Welfare State, ie nationalized HC or any form of human subsistence, cannot exist with fed subsidies in an inflationary environment, but only by being more reliant on tax funding by even the still prosperous in a stagflation economy. Leads to the very topic we are discussing. Very run on sentence, but basically more authoritarianism to cover the failure of gov interference and failure. Perpetual decline of the hope for any future prosperity.
 
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#118
#118
lawgator1 said:
That penalizes the poor (relative to the way that income taxes are SUPPOSED to work) because everyone has a basic set of needs for food, housing, etc., and so people on the bottom end of the economic ladder are paying proportionately much more than their wealthy counterparts, relative to their incomes.

The wealth gap in this country is becoming so extreme as to be dangerous to people "buying into" the belief that our economic system is meritorious and reasonably fair. Whatever solution you come up with must adjust taxation in an UPWARD direction, not downward. A proposal that benefits the wealthiest will go over like a lead balloon at this point.
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We already have the most progressive taxes. Ever consider the problem isn’t with the tax system but with the inflation?
 
#119
#119
AshG said:
That's partly because the fear porn media calls everything to the left of corporatism "socialism." What is happening in those countries is social democracy. They have decided, as a country, that keeping their citizens healthy, fed, and educated to the highest possible level is good for everyone. All boats rise. As a result they have lower suicide rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower divorce rates, longer life spans, and overall greater satisfaction with life.

America offers infinite possibilities for individuals to do great things. Amazing things. Rags to riches stories abound here more than anywhere else. But we're so focused on the individual level Uber Alles that those who are community minded get labeled as outsiders.

I don't want crazy tax systems to put a rich guy's money in my pocket. I also don't want to be in the situation I'm in now where I am having a cellulitis attack in the wrong state and won't be back within insurance range until Thursday. I want to see industry move in and fill up the local industrial parks. I also don't want to have to raise my taxes so we can sweeten the deal to beg a business that turns a profit to move in there.

Yes, there needs to be some kind of campaign that brings people on board. Reagan's trickle down has become a joke, and welfare queen an epithet. Convince the masses that the rich don't hate them and that there are local private entities that can take the place of slow government bureaucracy and you'll start to get somewhere.
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Since there are DS countries, even countries where the primary language is English, why don't those who would benefit from that system immigrate? Why must this country change the system on which it was founded?
 
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#122
#122
Orangeburst said:
The Welfare OR Social Welfare State, ie nationalized HC or any form of human subsistence, cannot exist with fed subsidies in an inflationary environment, but only by being more reliant on tax funding by even the still prosperous in a stagflation economy. Leads to the very topic we are discussing. Very run on sentence, but basically more authoritarianism to cover the failure of gov interference and failure. Perpetual decline of the hope for any future prosperity.
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Understood. Thank you.
 
#123
#123
McDad said:
Why must this country change the system on which it was founded?
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Where black people count as 3/5 of a human being and can't own land, women can't vote or own land, and politicians have raging orgies? Yeah, change is bad. That trip back to Maryland tomorrow is going to suck on the wagon road.

We were given a system of governance to allow us to be flexible and adapt to the changing situations of the world and our place in it. We're not a predominantly agrarian East Coast nation anymore, dependent on slaves and debtors for cheap labor. Things change. Citizens change. The Founding Fathers intended us to change with it.
 
#124
#124
NorthDallas40 said:
Yep and IRAs too. The bastards already covet all that pretax money that they can’t get their grifting hands on.
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And don’t forget during this wonderful housing bubble, your home value can easily go up significantly as equity that you’ll have to pay taxes on
 
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