Web Censorship and Political Bias

#703
#703
BowlBrother85 said:
Sorry, but Twitter executives have the right to do that, on their own platform. The solution here is for Republicans to come up with their own social media platform and compete for users. The solution isn't regulation or government intrusion into the private sector. This is the United States of America. The solution is always through competition.
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Honest question....where did you stand on the CO baker vs gay couple wedding cake lawsuit?
 
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#705
#705
newyorkvol said:
Honest question....where did you stand on the CO baker vs gay couple wedding cake lawsuit?
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This really doesn't have anything to do with the topic of web censorship, but I don't believe that sexual orientation is protected under the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964. So, unless there are some state and local laws which prohibit such discrimination, then the baker should have the right to refuse service and the gay couple should find another baker who is willing to accommodate them. That shouldn't be hard anymore.
 
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#706
#706
Trump is set to announce an executive order against social media companies - CNNPolitics

Well - here it goes. This is despicable.

Finally, the draft order would direct the Federal Trade Commission to report on complaints about political bias collected by the White House and to consider bringing lawsuits against companies accused of violating the administration's interpretation of Section 230.
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I expect the freedom loving right wing partisans will come out any moment against this. Let's see who has principles.
 
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#707
#707
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#708
#708
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#709
#709
newyorkvol said:
Honest question....where did you stand on the CO baker vs gay couple wedding cake lawsuit?
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The key to the case was that the bakeshop owner did not deny the couple in question service overall, but merely one product on the menu, therefore the religious freedoms of the owner were the over-riding concern of the SC majority and they left the other issues aside. If they were barred any and all baked goods, that would have been a rights violation in the other direction.

This was also before gay marriage was recognized in Colorado, so it is a bit harder to say not providing single service for a ceremony which has no civil recognition would be discriminatory.

Likewise, Twitter has not censored or denied any sort of product to Trump. In this case, Trump is trying undermine an American company because his conspiracy theories and lies are being appropriately labeled. He should use another platform instead. There are plenty of alternatives. Just as there are 1,000s of bakeshops which actively seek gay patrons.
 
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#710
#710
Rifleman said:
The key to the case was that the bakeshop owner did not deny the couple question service overall, but merely one product on the menu, therefore the religious freedoms of the owner were the over-riding concern of the SC majority and they left the other issues aside. If they were barred any and all baked goods, that would have been a rights violation in the other direction.

This was also before gay marriage was recognized in Colorado, so it is a bit harder to say not providing service to a ceremony which has no civil recognition would be discriminatory.

Likewise, Twitter has not censored or denied any sort of product to Trump. In this case, Trump is trying undermine an American company because his conspiracy theories and lies are being appropriately labeled. He should use another platform instead. There are plenty of alternatives. Just as there are 1,000s of bakeshops which actively seek gay patrons.
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The bold is where I have a problem. Businesses should be able to serve, hire, fire or do/don't do business with anyone they choose for any reason. It's a violation of the right of free association to make them do otherwise.
 
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#711
#711
hog88 said:
The bold is where I have a problem. Businesses should be able to serve, hire, fire or do/don't do business with anyone they choose for any reason. It's a violation of the right of free association to make them do otherwise.
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Yep. Let the free market sort it out.
 
#712
#712
hog88 said:
The bold is where I have a problem. Businesses should be able to serve, hire, fire or do/don't do business with anyone they choose for any reason. It's a violation of the right of free association to make them do otherwise.
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What you are describing in a private club. Feel free to establish one of those and exclude whomever you want.

If you want to have a public business protected by the public's tax dollar, using the public infrastructure, and welcoming the broader public, then you should not be able to put a "No Irish Allowed" or "No Jews" sign in your window.
 
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#713
#713
Rifleman said:
What you are describing in a private club. Feel free to establish one of those and exclude whomever you want.

If you want to have a public business protected by the public's tax dollar, using the public infrastructure, and welcoming the broader public, then you should not be able to put a "No Irish Allowed" or "No Jews" sign in your window.
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Disagree. Unless the bakery is tax exempt, they can do what they want. As long as they are paying the tax man, they are paying for the infrastructure and access to the broader public. If you don't like they don't serve Jews, don't patronage the establishment.
 
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#714
#714
Rifleman said:
What you are describing in a private club. Feel free to establish one of those and exclude whomever you want.

If you want to have a public business protected by the public's tax dollar, using the public infrastructure, and welcoming the broader public, then you should not be able to put a "No Irish Allowed" or "No Jews" sign in your window.
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Why not? Individuals are afforded that "privilege".

Open and honest discrimination is much better than the hidden discrimination we have now.
 
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#715
#715
rjd970 said:
Disagree. Unless the bakery is tax exempt, they can do what they want. As long as they are paying the tax man, they are paying for the infrastructure and access to the broader public. If you don't like they don't serve Jews, don't patronage the establishment.
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Since my ancestors are primarily Irish and my wife is Irish/Jewish, we would not be allowed to patronage such an establishment without effectively concealing those facts. What if this establishment was owned by fundamentalist Muslims? Would you still be ready to cheer on their legal defense so they could continue their discrimination?

I respect your disagreement. I will try to comfort myself with the fact that the laws here for well over 50 years, and in almost every reasonable country on earth starting in the 20th century, has taken my side on this one.
 
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#716
#716
Rifleman said:
Since my ancestors are primarily Irish and my wife is Irish/Jewish, we would not be allowed to patronage such an establishment without effectively concealing those facts. What if this establishment was owned by fundamentalist Muslims? Would you still be ready to cheer on their legal defense so they could continue their discrimination?

I respect your disagreement. I will try to comfort myself with the fact that the laws here for well over 50 years, and in almost every reasonable country on earth starting in the 20th century, has taken my side on this one.
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Cheer? No. I wouldn't patronize that establishment and encourage others not to either hoping it would lead them to change policies.

I believe people (I include business) should be free to express their feelings and associate with only those they want to associate with. Just because the mob is doing something doesn't make it right.
 
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#717
#717
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#718
#718
Rifleman said:
Since my ancestors are primarily Irish and my wife is Irish/Jewish, we would not be allowed to patronage such an establishment without effectively concealing those facts. What if this establishment was owned by fundamentalist Muslims? Would you still be ready to cheer on their legal defense so they could continue their discrimination?

I respect your disagreement. I will try to comfort myself with the fact that the laws here for well over 50 years, and in almost every reasonable country on earth starting in the 20th century, has taken my side on this one.
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I wouldn’t cheer anything and I would find such an establishment awful. But let’s be clear, that does not mean they aren’t entitled to their beliefs, no matter how reprehensible they might be. Free speech and liberty for all, even ***holes. That is the only way this works, otherwise we have governments and mob mentality dictating speech, and that is not free speech.
 
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#719
#719
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#720
#720
rjd970 said:
I wouldn’t cheer anything and I would find such an establishment awful. But let’s be clear, that does not mean they aren’t entitled to their beliefs, no matter how reprehensible they might be. Free speech and liberty for all, even ***holes. That is the only way this works, otherwise we have governments and mob mentality dictating speech, and that is not free speech.
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I imagine a "Death to the Infidels" sandwich shop where Christians can't be served can be called unconstitutional without infringing upon anyone's liberty or free speech. LOL
 
#721
#721
lawgator1 said:
Its bullying by an authoritarian regime and an unconstitutional abuse of executive power.
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I can't imagine that very many Republicans are happy about this either. If allowed to stand, this sets a bad precedent for future administrations to follow and there will be a Democrat in the White House again one day. It's a bold and aggressive abuse of power.
 
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#722
#722
Rifleman said:
I imagine a "Death to the Infidels" sandwich shop where Christians can't be served can be called unconstitutional without infringing upon anyone's liberty or free speech. LOL
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It would be an infringement to call the shop unconstitutional.
 
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#724
#724
BowlBrother85 said:
I can't imagine that very many Republicans are happy about this either. If allowed to stand, this sets a bad precedent for future administrations to follow and there will be a Democrat in the White House again one day. It's a bold and aggressive abuse of power.
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I do agree that if Twitter and other platforms are editing content or providing some sort of opinion then they lose their immunity. Why do they feel the need to step in and fact check Trump? Let the other Twitter users do it. That’s the whole point of the platform. It’s individuals sharing opinions and, as such, they’ve been afforded protection from any liability since they’re supposed to be nothing more than a means of sharing. When they start removing and/or editing content that isn’t in violation of their policies that’s where the problem comes in. Do they have a right to remove what they want? Sure. Do they have a right to immunity once they choose to engage? No. That’s what this is about. This isn’t about Trump trying to dictate actions of a private business.
 
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#725
#725
Rifleman said:
How would the "Death to the Infidels" restaurant owner's speech be infringed if he/she had to Christians?
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It would be forced association which is not granted to the federal govt under the constitution. People wouldn’t go anyway because you probably wouldn’t be able to buy a pork sandwich.
 
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