What’s the likelihood that we see civil unrest soon?

#426
#426
1vol8 said:
That may be true for you. But that doesn’t mean that Biden didn’t cause massive job loss. In the wake of that he started giving free money. Now all those jobs are Now available again and no one wants To work. It’s actually comical to see Him take credit for the jobs that are now available as if they are jobs created when in fact they originated as jobs lost because of him to begin with
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Much of the free money train started under Trump

But it's very simple that if a person doesn't like the job rules you find another
 
#429
#429
1vol8 said:
I’m completely different. It is not up to me what you put in your body. Business owner or not
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You absolutely are just like the democrats, you support the trampling of rights as long as it's something you believe in.

I agree that nobody should be forced to put anything in their body and thankfully no business owner I have heard of is doing that. Every employee has a choice.
 
#430
#430
1vol8 said:
I’ll look at it like this. If you worked for me and I looked at you and said you have to take the vaccine or lose your job I am wrong. I’m wrong because I’m telling you you have to take a shot. What’s to stop me from taking it further in the future and start giving you mandatory speed or LSD to get more production out of you?What you do with your body should be up to you and you alone.
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I'm was addressing the mandate vs mandate argument. What an individual business can/can't do of their own volition is another (and much older and ongoing) topic.
 
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#431
#431
hndog609 said:
I think it's the nuance of Desantis having an idea to counter the mandate but choosing the wrong means of doing so.

Right now it's little more than the businesses facing a choice of following a Fed mandate vs facing a punitive State mandate. That's not freedom.

Now if Desantis stepped back and said "this Fed mandate is declared void in the state of FL" then that would maintaining the freedom of the employers.
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Well said.
 
#432
#432
BowlBrother85 said:
I don't think the two can be intertwined. In the case of Jacobson v Massachusetts, which I mentioned earlier, the court ruled that because it was the government's duty to protect public health, and because the mandate applied equally to all adults, it did not violate the Equal Protection Clause. Basically, the government can tell you what to do with your body... but in the opinion of Justice John Marshall Harlan, only if the regulation in question was ....

"... necessary in order to protect the public health and secure the public safety." - Justice Harlan

Obviously. that wouldn't apply to abortion rights.
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The argument would then be to determine if these particular vaccines are really necessary for public safety and health. The fact that we have had the CDC, FDA and White House moving goalposts and giving conflicting guidance, the burden of proof should be on the mandate side to make their case and prove that these vaccines are really necessary. If they ignore natural immunity and ignore the fact that even the first round of vaccines are now almost ineffective against new variants, then that is their path to victory in the courts...
 
#433
#433
1vol8 said:
I’ll look at it like this. If you worked for me and I looked at you and said you have to take the vaccine or lose your job I am wrong. I’m wrong because I’m telling you you have to take a shot. What’s to stop me from taking it further in the future and start giving you mandatory speed or LSD to get more production out of you?What you do with your body should be up to you and you alone.
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I 100% agree and if an employer is mandating anything like you describe I fully support that employee taking his body to another employer.
 
#434
#434
hog88 said:
You absolutely are just like the democrats, you support the trampling of rights as long as it's something you believe in.

I agree that nobody should be forced to put anything in their body and thankfully no business owner I have heard of is doing that. Every employee has a choice.
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That’s why you’re misunderstanding me. I support freedom. Freedom to choose what’s best for you as an individual.
 
#435
#435
So IMO Desantis had to counter Biden threats of fines as opposed to just saying the mandate is invalid in FL..he had to add a penalty..for 1 reason...say a company is headquartered in a state where they support forcing vaccines on employees..now the buisness in FLA is saying I dont have to enforce vax mandate here..but headquarters is forcing them therefore making it enforceable in FLA...by adding a financial penalty the headquarters now have to decide whether losing 5k per incident is worth it...basically fighting the same way as the federal government....instead of the GOP tried and failed ideology of "we are better then that" Desantis is saying " we are gonna play on equal ground, in stead of trying to take the high ground" now as for schools. If he was forcing the schools to unmasked completely...thats different...never has he said you cannot mask your child..he says if you try to force every kid to mask (taking away parental and childrens rights) then here is the cost.

All this would go away if mask and vax companies and those companies that want to enforce them were held liable for adveres effects..
 
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#438
#438
whodeycin85 said:
So IMO Desantis had to counter Biden threats of fines as opposed to just saying the mandate is invalid in FL..he had to add a penalty..for 1 reason...say a company is headquartered in a state where they support forcing vaccines on employees..now the buisness in FLA is saying I dont have to enforce vax mandate here..but headquarters is forcing them therefore making it enforceable in FLA...by adding a financial penalty the headquarters now have to decide whether losing 5k per incident is worth it...basically fighting the same way as the federal government....instead of the GOP tried and failed ideology of "we are better then that" Desantis is saying " we are gonna play on equal ground, in stead of trying to take the high ground" now as for schools. If he was forcing the schools to unmasked completely...thats different...never has he said you cannot mask your child..he says if you try to force every kid to mask (taking away parental and childrens rights) then here is the cost.

All this would go away if mask and vax companies and those companies that want to enforce them were held liable for adveres effects..
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Good post. My point exactly
 
#439
#439
whodeycin85 said:
All this would go away if mask and vax companies and those companies that want to enforce them were held liable for adveres effects..
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what kind of liability do you want?

There is no damage caused by a mask. If a company forces a vax and there is an issue the worker is covered under workers comp.
 
#440
#440
hog88 said:
Except when that individual is a business owner right?
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Now you’re talking corporations, not individuals. Individuals make up corporations. You can’t have one without the other. If you cut a snake off at the head it eliminates the problem. The head is the individual person being given the right to choose for themselves
 
#442
#442
utvols88 said:
No one is saying they like the policy in a vacuum. They are only saying they can see the purpose in response to a worse infringement from the feds.
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I understand that but DeSantis handled it the absolute wrong way and deserves to be called out for it. What he did is no better than what Biden did.
 
#443
#443
1vol8 said:
Now you’re talking corporations, not individuals. Individuals make up corporations. You can’t have one without the other. If you cut a snake off at the head it eliminates the problem. The head is the individual person being given the right to choose for themselves
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Many, many corporations are owned by 1 individual.
 
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#445
#445
whodeycin85 said:
So IMO Desantis had to counter Biden threats of fines as opposed to just saying the mandate is invalid in FL..he had to add a penalty..for 1 reason...say a company is headquartered in a state where they support forcing vaccines on employees..now the buisness in FLA is saying I dont have to enforce vax mandate here..but headquarters is forcing them therefore making it enforceable in FLA...by adding a financial penalty the headquarters now have to decide whether losing 5k per incident is worth it...basically fighting the same way as the federal government....instead of the GOP tried and failed ideology of "we are better then that" Desantis is saying " we are gonna play on equal ground, in stead of trying to take the high ground" now as for schools. If he was forcing the schools to unmasked completely...thats different...never has he said you cannot mask your child..he says if you try to force every kid to mask (taking away parental and childrens rights) then here is the cost.

All this would go away if mask and vax companies and those companies that want to enforce them were held liable for adveres effects..
Click to expand...

In 10 years there will be a commercial about if you’ve had the vaccine you may be entitled financial compensation.
 
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#446
#446
utvolpj said:
what kind of liability do you want?

There is no damage caused by a mask. If a company forces a vax and there is an issue the worker is covered under workers comp.
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Are you sure about that? Breathing in trapped bacteria, sweat and spit? I think the results of long term effect have yet to be seen from wearing masks and no one knows what they are yet. Face it, we ARE the lab rats
 
#448
#448
hog88 said:
I understand that but DeSantis handled it the absolute wrong way and deserves to be called out for it. What he did is no better than what Biden did.
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It's better, by definition. It's an infringement on less than bidens. But I don't think there is another way that protects the individual. Once bidens is struck in court, we will see what desantis does.

If he still has it in place, I'll join you. I think it was a way to cause a stagnation until it's settled.
 
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#449
#449
1vol8 said:
But made up of hundreds. He has the right to vaccinate himself if he chooses the same as his employees should.
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The owner should also have every right to hire, fire, retain and set the standards he wants from his employees without government interference.
 
#450
#450
utvolpj said:
what kind of liability do you want?

There is no damage caused by a mask. If a company forces a vax and there is an issue the worker is covered under workers comp.
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A mask can trigger an asthema attack and has. If because of that the employee misses work or become hospitalized they should be liable for forcing mask to be worn....yes but there are workman comp limits....it usually covers cost of hospital..so once recovered then what? Comply again or be fired....companies that enforce rules and that rules harms a persons lively hood are liable except for masks and vax..
Again if companies were liable a vax mandate wouldn't be a thought..no company would risk a multi million or more suit if the vax killed a worker or made the disabled for life...
 
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