What’s the likelihood that we see civil unrest soon?

[C-south]

Really? Do you know how stupid that sounds? "Why should healthy people be forced to take a vaccine . . ."? You take a vaccine when you're healthy. It's a preventive not a cure. It doesn't work if you take it after you're sick.

That's one of the more humorous aspects of this pandemic, anti-vaxxers begging to be given the the vaccine after they contract the virus and are scared of dying.

Why would I take any vaccine for a virus that’s almost 100% curable especially if I’m healthy?

 

[C-south]

Is denying services to LGBTQ folks in the Constitution?

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[1vol8]

Is a business owner not an individual, though? Hypothetically if I own a restaurant and I require that 1)customers wear masks while waiting to be seated,2) I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone wearing a piece of Alabama Crimson Tide apparel, and 3)I require all of my employees to be vaccinated to continue working at my restaurant, am I out of line in your opinion? Is it not my right as an individual and business owner to determine who I will and won't provide service to as well as requirements for entry and employment?

The way I see it, I'm not restricting anyone's individual freedom. Customers and employees alike can either abide by my rules or they can, as free individuals, go to another restaurant/ go find another job. I've not kept up with this thread very much so my apologies if you've already received and answered a question such as this. Also this is truly hypothetical. I wouldn't do any of the things I listed.

Yes a business owner is an individual. But y’all are missing the point. Have you ever heard of the joking term in construction “If you fall, you’re fired before you hit the ground”? That’s a joke but it’s relevant to my point. They say that because During operational hours of said business, you’re not an individual. You’re a entity. If someone falls or hurts themselves during operational hours, the BUSINESS is held liable. Not the individual owner. Hence the need for liability insurance. If what you guys are arguing is not debatable, then we all would need individual policies in case someone hurts themselves at your home. Can it be done? Sure. But it’s not required. To take it farther, yes Discrimination happens every day at businesses. But as a business owner you do not have the right to say for example: “Mr Black man, I see you’re more than qualified for this position. However, I don’t like black people and therefore I’m going to wait for a white man with the same qualifications”. If you’re a racist POS that may indeed be the reason you didn’t hire him BUT you can’t say it. As an individual, you can say whatever you want without consequence (outside of maybe getting your ass whopped). There’s a huge difference in the freedoms as an individual vs a business because the constitution is geared towards the individual.

 

[zeppelin128]

Thanks for proving my point.

And thanks for proving mine.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Why would I take any vaccine for a virus that’s almost 100% curable especially if I’m healthy?

Why wouldn’t you get on an airline that is almost 100% safe. After all, 99% percent of the flights land safely. Want to buy a ticket?

 

[GVF]

Yes a business owner is an individual. But y’all are missing the point. Have you ever heard of the joking term in construction “If you fall, you’re fired before you hit the ground”? That’s a joke but it’s relevant to my point. They say that because During operational hours of said business, you’re not an individual. You’re a entity. If someone falls or hurts themselves during operational hours, the BUSINESS is held liable. Not the individual owner. Hence the need for liability insurance. If what you guys are arguing is not debatable, then we all would need individual policies in case someone hurts themselves at your home. Can it be done? Sure. But it’s not required. To take it farther, yes Discrimination happens every day at businesses. But as a business owner you do not have the right to say for example: “Mr Black man, I see you’re more than qualified for this position. However, I don’t like black people and therefore I’m going to wait for a white man with the same qualifications”. If you’re a racist POS that may indeed be the reason you didn’t hire him BUT you can’t say it. As an individual, you can say whatever you want without consequence (outside of maybe getting your ass whopped). There’s a huge difference in the freedoms as an individual vs a business because the constitution is geared towards the individual.

Extremely good, and accurate points...for a publicly held company. I would only rebut that for a private company, an owner can set the rules for how the entity will perform. One simply cannot applaud a private business for denying entry and service to an unvaccinated person, and condemn a private business for not serving a gay couple. "No shoes, No shirt, No service." Same premise. That's also saying we will not service certain individuals. It's all one in the same, and common place. {This would not apply to hiring practices as you outlined above. That is illegal of course, across the board.}

 

[C-south]

Why wouldn’t you get on an airline that is almost 100% safe. After all, 99% percent of the flights land safely. Want to buy a ticket?

What a completely stupid analogy.

 

[C-south]

And thanks for proving mine.

You didn’t have one. The people even tried to compromise with the alphabets and it wasn’t good enough. Last I checked religious freedom was a protected right in the constitution and catering to every whim of the mentally ill wasn't a requirement.

 

[1vol8]

Extremely good, and accurate points...for a publicly held company. I would only rebut that for a private company, an owner can set the rules for how the entity will perform. One simply cannot applaud a private business for denying entry and service to an unvaccinated person, and condemn a private business for not serving a gay couple. "No shoes, No shirt, No service." Same premise. That's also saying we will not service certain individuals. It's all one in the same, and common place. {This would not apply to hiring practices as you outlined above. That is illegal of course, across the board.}

Yes, it’s illegal for a business and legal for an individual. All I’m arguing is that businesses don’t have the same freedoms as an individual. What we’re talking about is not a simple thing. We’re talking about businesses that many people have worked at for years, established themselves and raised their kids on that salary suddenly telling you you have to take an unproven shot to keep your job. Yes they can walk away freely but they can’t get an equal job that doesn’t require the same under Biden’s mandate. What if the employee had an attorney draw up a legal contract that said something along the lines of “If you’re going to force me to take this shot to keep my job, OK. But sign here saying you’re legally responsible if I have complications.”? Do you think any owner would sign? Hell no! So what gives them to right to force a mandate to employees if they wouldn’t be willing to accept the penalties? If you force the mandate, you express confidence in it. But I’d bet my left arm they don’t trust it enough to sign that paper. And that’s exactly what I would do.

 

[OrangeTsar]

What a completely stupid analogy.

Why? I keep hearing 99% of people survive covid. That’s fantastic. Sucks to be in the remaining one percent though doesn’t it. It is a perfectly acceptable analogy to point out that rational people normally aren’t comfortable with a one percent change of death. 99% sounds wonderful until YOUR life goes all in on the roulette wheel.

 

[1vol8]

Why? I keep hearing 99% of people survive covid. That’s fantastic. Sucks to be in the remaining one percent though doesn’t it. It is a perfectly acceptable analogy to point out that rational people normally aren’t comfortable with a one percent change of death. 99% sounds wonderful until YOUR life goes all in on the roulette wheel.

I personally think it’s an excellent point

 

[VolsAgainstTheWorld15]

Yes a business owner is an individual. But y’all are missing the point. Have you ever heard of the joking term in construction “If you fall, you’re fired before you hit the ground”? That’s a joke but it’s relevant to my point. They say that because During operational hours of said business, you’re not an individual. You’re a entity. If someone falls or hurts themselves during operational hours, the BUSINESS is held liable. Not the individual owner. Hence the need for liability insurance. If what you guys are arguing is not debatable, then we all would need individual policies in case someone hurts themselves at your home. Can it be done? Sure. But it’s not required. To take it farther, yes Discrimination happens every day at businesses. But as a business owner you do not have the right to say for example: “Mr Black man, I see you’re more than qualified for this position. However, I don’t like black people and therefore I’m going to wait for a white man with the same qualifications”. If you’re a racist POS that may indeed be the reason you didn’t hire him BUT you can’t say it. As an individual, you can say whatever you want without consequence (outside of maybe getting your ass whopped). There’s a huge difference in the freedoms as an individual vs a business because the constitution is geared towards the individual.

I think me and others see your point. The point we are making is that yes, businesses are entities, but they are owned and run by individuals just like you and me who have rights just like you and me. When a governor swoops in and mandates businesses operate in certain ways, the rights of the free individual(s) who own the business and thus see to it that employees are paid and pay the bills to keep the lights on are being infringed upon all for the sake of the president/governor appeasing their base. This is particularly applicable in cases of a privately owned company.

Your argument may carry some weight in the case of a publicly owned company. That's more debatable at least. In the case of a privately owned company, though, individual freedoms are being heavily infringed upon when a governor or president starts slapping down mandates on how free individuals run the business they own. What I and others are pointing out, and this is fine as you are free to hold your own beliefs, is that there is very little difference in what Biden did and what DeSantis did. Two sides of the same coin and it seems from what I've gathered of the conversation that you see one (DeSantis) as far more acceptable and appropriate than the other which is pretty partisan. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[NashVol11]

Why? I keep hearing 99% of people survive covid. That’s fantastic. Sucks to be in the remaining one percent though doesn’t it. It is a perfectly acceptable analogy to point out that rational people normally aren’t comfortable with a one percent change of death. 99% sounds wonderful until YOUR life goes all in on the roulette wheel.

“That’s stupid” and nothing else = “I don’t have a response”

 

[OrangeTsar]

I personally think it’s an excellent point

Another way of looking at it….seeing a hospital ICU with 100 people in in and knowing that 99 of them will return home to their loved ones is seen as “good news”. One’s perspective changes rather dramatically when one is in that ICU himself.

 

[hndog609]

Why? I keep hearing 99% of people survive covid. That’s fantastic. Sucks to be in the remaining one percent though doesn’t it. It is a perfectly acceptable analogy to point out that rational people normally aren’t comfortable with a one percent change of death. 99% sounds wonderful until YOUR life goes all in on the roulette wheel.

I'm confused. Unless you're positing that there's no such thing as plane crashes then wouldn't everyone that boards a plane is in fact accepting that possibility? I'm guessing road travel is statistically even more dangerous but even more people accept that risk than fly on planes.

 

[C-south]

Why? I keep hearing 99% of people survive covid. That’s fantastic. Sucks to be in the remaining one percent though doesn’t it. It is a perfectly acceptable analogy to point out that rational people normally aren’t comfortable with a one percent change of death. 99% sounds wonderful until YOUR life goes all in on the roulette wheel.

We know who that one percent primarily consists of. Old, elderly, sick, immune compromised individuals. They should get the vaccine, isolate, wear masks, or whatever they feel they need to do to stay safe.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Why? I keep hearing 99% of people survive covid. That’s fantastic. Sucks to be in the remaining one percent though doesn’t it. It is a perfectly acceptable analogy to point out that rational people normally aren’t comfortable with a one percent change of death. 99% sounds wonderful until YOUR life goes all in on the roulette wheel.

Yep. Sh!t happens.

 

[FLVOL_79]

We know who that one percent primarily consists of. Old, elderly, sick, immune compromised individuals. They should get the vaccine, isolate, wear masks, or whatever they feel they need to do to stay safe.

I assume a lot of people posting on this board with left leanings are still isolating at home like good lemmings. I mean, it would be egregious for them to do something like go to a restaurant and remove their masks to eat which effectively puts everyone else in the restaurant risk.

 

[Septic]

We know who that one percent primarily consists of. Old, elderly, sick, immune compromised individuals. They should get the vaccine, isolate, wear masks, or whatever they feel they need to do to stay safe.

They should do all of those things, but you can also help keep the virus in check by getting vaccinated. Potentially not spreading it to one of the one percent who can't handle the virus. Outside of the mortality, getting vaccinated could also help keep the morbidity rate of unvaccinated from clogging up hospitals and utilizing scarce resources.

Foisting a dichotomy of "death" or "no big deal" is illogical, there are many other factors to consider where having more people vaccinated is in everyone's best interest.

 

[lukeneyland]

Why wouldn’t you get on an airline that is almost 100% safe. After all, 99% percent of the flights land safely. Want to buy a ticket?

They aren’t 100 percent safe. They do occasionally crash. That’s exactly what we do, we all accept risks to different degrees

 

[1vol8]

I think me and others see your point. The point we are making is that yes, businesses are entities, but they are owned and run by individuals just like you and me who have rights just like you and me. When a governor swoops in and mandates businesses operate in certain ways, the rights of the free individual(s) who own the business and thus see to it that employees are paid and pay the bills to keep the lights on are being infringed upon all for the sake of the president/governor appeasing their base. This is particularly applicable in cases of a privately owned company.

Your argument may carry some weight in the case of a publicly owned company. That's more debatable at least. In the case of a privately owned company, though, individual freedoms are being heavily infringed upon when a governor or president starts slapping down mandates on how free individuals run the business they own. What I and others are pointing out, and this is fine as you are free to hold your own beliefs, is that there is very little difference in what Biden did and what DeSantis did. Two sides of the same coin and it seems from what I've gathered of the conversation that you see one (DeSantis) as far more acceptable and appropriate than the other which is pretty partisan. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I wouldn’t agree with DeSantis if Biden hadn’t done what he did. However I do believe that DeSantis did what he had to do to counter Biden’s actions. Now I do agree maybe Desantis should’ve just declared the mandate void in Florida as step 1 in this case before imposing fines. But I also believe he did what he had to do to give the people the freedom to choose for themselves. A right they were born with

 

[C-south]

I assume a lot of people posting on this board with left leanings are still isolating at home like good lemmings. I mean, it would be egregious for them to do something like go to a restaurant and remove their masks to eat which effectively puts everyone else in the restaurant risk.

I really don’t get it or understand their argument. Not sure why they are so adamant on people getting a vaccine they don’t need. Spend the effort preaching to those that are actually at risk. I mean if the vaccine works they should get it and be good to go.

 

[lukeneyland]

I really don’t get it or understand their argument. Not sure why they are so adamant on people getting a vaccine they don’t need. Spend the effort preaching to those that are actually at risk. I mean if the vaccine works they should get it and be good to go.

Especially since the vaccine doesn’t prevent contraction and thereby mutation . If it did then the collectivist mentality would at least hold some water. Right now I’ve yet to see a convincing argument as to why a healthy young person should get it.

 

[C-south]

They should do all of those things, but you can also help keep the virus in check by getting vaccinated. Potentially not spreading it to one of the one percent who can't handle the virus. Outside of the mortality, getting vaccinated could also help keep the morbidity rate of unvaccinated from clogging up hospitals and utilizing scarce resources.

Foisting a dichotomy of "death" or "no big deal" is illogical, there are many other factors to consider where having more people vaccinated is in everyone's best interest.

If the one percent is vaccinated it shouldn’t matter and the vaccinated have been shown to spread the virus as well as the unvaccinated. Aren’t hospitals more overwhelmed in the winter with flu and pneumonia as well particularly among the old? Good thing those things were cured last year.

 

[Septic]

I really don’t get it or understand their argument. Not sure why they are so adamant on people getting a vaccine they don’t need. Spend the effort preaching to those that are actually at risk. I mean if the vaccine works they should get it and be good to go.

That's just it, you don't know you don't need it until you've been sick. There's gobs of people who are and have been laid up in the ICU on a vent who previously believed "they didn't need it."

Given that the people who are dying are almost exclusively unvaccinated, why roll the dice?