What did Dooley do for three years?

[Lexvol]

Is this really necessary? How long before we've beaten this horse into dust?

Dooley recruited most of the talent that takes the field now. Yes. He left big holes. Yes the team is critically thin in places. He quit on his last recruiting class long before he was fired and that's probably the BIGGEST problem right now.

He didn't cause Gordon to quit.... who would have been a pretty nice guy to have around on this team at nickel. He didn't cause Bray, Hunter, or CP to go pro early. The latter two especially would be pretty valuable right now. He didn't cause DR to get stupid... at least not directly.

What did he do? He came in with enthusiasm. He had a decent first year with both play and recruiting. He got overwhelmed by the situation. He lost control of guys like Bray. He lost hope. He became negative. He became ineffective. He became bitter. He stopped working and withdrew into a shell... then he got fired.


Is this really something we have to relive in a new thread every week? He's gone. His career as far as being a HC is all but certainly over.... and he could have made more money as a lawyer as an assistant coach.

At some point, you need to let go of the contempt and just pity the guy for failing... unless of course you really do believe he did it on purpose. In that case... you need some help.

It isn't contempt...it is factual discussion.

Half of Butch's recruiting efforts are rebuilding bridges that Dooley burned, so this is certainly still relevant.

 

[sjt18]

It isn't contempt...it is factual discussion.

That has been rehashed ad nauseum since the day the guy was fired. He failed. His failure. Kiffin's non-sense. Fulmer's decline and ultimate failure.... have ALL contributed to where the program is. I am pretty sure the OP and everyone else here knows that by now and has an opinion on who bears the most blame etc.

It would just seem that looking to the future at some point might become appropriate. Is there really anything new going to come of a thread like this? Is there going to be a new perspective or new revelations? If not... why do it?

Half of Butch's recruiting efforts are rebuilding bridges that Dooley burned, so this is certainly still relevant.

Not really. He wouldn't have had an automatic relationship even if Dooley had had one... and you could argue that Dooley setting the bar so low with those players and coaches is actually an advantage to Jones when he goes in and shows them the "love" Dooley never gave.

 

[sjt18]

I guess what I am trying to ask is if some of you never get tired of wallowing in misery? Do you really go around in life looking for things to complain about or be unhappy about then dredge up old stuff if you can't find anything new?

 

[Lexvol]

That has been rehashed ad nauseum since the day the guy was fired. He failed. His failure. Kiffin's non-sense. Fulmer's decline and ultimate failure.... have ALL contributed to where the program is. I am pretty sure the OP and everyone else here knows that by now and has an opinion on who bears the most blame etc.

It would just seem that looking to the future at some point might become appropriate. Is there really anything new going to come of a thread like this? Is there going to be a new perspective or new revelations? If not... why do it?



Not really. He wouldn't have had an automatic relationship even if Dooley had had one... and you could argue that Dooley setting the bar so low with those players and coaches is actually an advantage to Jones when he goes in and shows them the "love" Dooley never gave.

You saw the thread title, if you don't want to discuss it....

I certainly don't need anyone telling me what is appropriate for me to discuss or not to discuss on a message board. I think it is a little silly really.

Rehashing arguments and reviewing the past is probably 30% of the content of this board, and that is a conservative estimate.

Also...you are underestimating the damage that Dooley did on the recruiting trail.

 

[Lexvol]

I guess what I am trying to ask is if some of you never get tired of wallowing in misery? Do you really go around in life looking for things to complain about or be unhappy about then dredge up old stuff if you can't find anything new?

I'm the happiest guy that you will ever meet. For me this is a fun thread.

 

[Wilson27]

Somewhere in the darkness of my mind I have a joke about a time traveling Vol fan showing up when Vince and Barbara conceived lil' Derek....but I will keep it to myself for the good of Vol Nation.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Somewhere in the darkness of my mind I have a joke about a time traveling Vol fan showing up when Vince and Barbara conceived lil' Derek....but I will keep it to myself for the good of Vol Nation.

Do tell.

 

[Boca Vol]

On signing day in 2011 and 2012, most of you were saying:

BOOM!

Well, the problem was, even though Dooley signed Top 20 classes while he was here there were 8 SEC teams that recruited better.

Factor in attrition and the fact that UT was already behind and this is where you are in Oct of 2013.

 

[oregonvol]

Juwaun James, Justin Hunter, Da'Rick Rogers and James Stone were why his first ranked class was the highest. I don't know how to explain it. Slick talking? Good recruiting?

You know when you lose and your long time head coach gets booted for some snake that leaves in the middle of the night. The same snake who let Tajh Boyd walk. I believe takes a hit on recruiting.

So you want to blame Kiffin for lack of depth but not Dooley? I'm not really following you there. Dooley had plenty of time to make up for Kiffin.

Dooley never established relationships with the high schools. He was a used car salesman. I am so thankful he is gone. But if we are going to sit here and whine about why Dooley needs to take the blame, give me a break. Enough of the freaking excuses. Enough of the bad mouth. Pointing fingers. That's for freaking losers. Yeah, we suck. Yeah, it will take a couple of years to get back. Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia have all gone through this.
We will be back.

You know people keep saying that we are in a cycle that every major program goes through, but I'm not so sure of that anymore. When did Alabama, Florida & Georgia have three straight losing seasons (I don't count South Carolina because they are a historically awful program)? The most recent example is Georgia, but that happened 50 years ago.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Yeah, vs Kentucky.....

Don't feel like defending Dooley again, but he did improve the roster quite a bit.

I think while the talent might be on the roster, it was immensely under-coached talent.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

On signing day in 2011 and 2012, most of you were saying:

BOOM!

Well, the problem was, even though Dooley signed Top 20 classes while he was here there were 8 SEC teams that recruited better.

Factor in attrition and the fact that UT was already behind and this is where you are in Oct of 2013.

This is what I don't get. We have top 20 classes, but we've struggled with the Sun Belt for the last three years.

I mean - seriously - what was Dooley telling these boys other than to warsh and keep their roots watered?

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Is this really necessary? How long before we've beaten this horse into dust?

Dooley recruited most of the talent that takes the field now. Yes. He left big holes. Yes the team is critically thin in places. He quit on his last recruiting class long before he was fired and that's probably the BIGGEST problem right now.

He didn't cause Gordon to quit.... who would have been a pretty nice guy to have around on this team at nickel. He didn't cause Bray, Hunter, or CP to go pro early. The latter two especially would be pretty valuable right now. He didn't cause DR to get stupid... at least not directly.

What did he do? He came in with enthusiasm. He had a decent first year with both play and recruiting. He got overwhelmed by the situation. He lost control of guys like Bray. He lost hope. He became negative. He became ineffective. He became bitter. He stopped working and withdrew into a shell... then he got fired.

sjt, I really just wanted to get in my "Vince and Barbara" line during Georgia week.

In all seriousness though, you've written quite well on how this team is being coached up. We've been talking about playing walk-ons and freshmen - not Dooley guys then. Dooley left a lot of work to do on Worley, Croom, the offensive line even, etc.

Actually, I think the bold above is a pretty fair assessment. Except his "came in with enthusiasm" should be replaced with "came in like Nuke Laroush".

He was like the process of erosion. It really feels like he ground us down. I'm sure it wasn't on purpose, but it's what he did.

 

[Lexvol]

sjt, I really just wanted to get in my "Vince and Barbara" line during Georgia week.

In all seriousness though, you've written quite well on how this team is being coached up. We've been talking about playing walk-ons and freshmen - not Dooley guys then. Dooley left a lot of work to do on Worley, Croom, the offensive line even, etc.

He was like the process of erosion. It really feels like he ground us down. I'm sure it wasn't on purpose, but it's what he did.

At the very least he left UT with several "F you's" during his last season.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

This is what I don't get. We have top 20 classes, but we've struggled with the Sun Belt for the last three years.

I mean - seriously - what was Dooley telling these boys other than to warsh and keep their roots watered?

I think its fair to say that player development wasn't the previous staff's strong suit. Sure, Bray, CP, DR, JH had superior talent but they needed to also be developing the skill position folks under them. Didn't happen - who knows why.

 

[Oskie Volum]

No way enough time to rebuild this team with talent. To much of a #s deficit after kiffin. For goodness sake we had to start the season with a true freshman and a juco transfer. What people seem to forget and don't understand is the effect of how regulated recruiting is and it's affects. A coach can't just go out and hire and fire at will. When u have to rebuild at every position on the team it takes time. He didn't have the luxury of focusing heavily in one area and then the next year the same. That's ideal.

Losing out on Santos and Peters last minute really hurt, but it's really tough to have kept them such last second and compete with what it took to get them to switch. Dooley had us in on some good RBs last year. Had our "hat" on a big one vs bama, and then CBJ couldn't seal up the other Green with 2 months time. And then gets rid of a former player yet dooley doesn't like former players which shows the stupidity of people just trying to find things to b*tch about. We have to hope CBJ learns soon what it takes to win in the SEC. One thing is kissing the ring of the coaches in the least talented pool in the region cause that isn't going to help talent wise.

So no it wasnt enough time especially with all the other factors involved with the program at the time. Throw on top of it The Legion of the Miserable to help opposing coaches too. CBJ doesn't have issues surrounding the AD and program like Dooley so if he really "gets it" he should have enough time. He is also getting paid A LOT more than dooley so CBJ really has no room but to get this done ASAP.

My biggest concern with CBJ right now is his learning curve of what it takes to win championships in the SEC. He is an SEC neophyte both recruiting and coaching scheme. If he doesn't do this quick he won't be around to long.
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[LA Vol]

Nothing. Except give us a whole slew of humiliating new records to the downside, including record-setting beatdowns to Bama both home and away... while making UT the punchline of the whole country's jokes and breaking a 26-year winning streak to UK.

Dooley's legacy lives on. He will not be forgotten.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

No way enough time to rebuild this team with talent. To much of a #s deficit after kiffin. For goodness sake we had to start the season with a true freshman and a juco transfer. What people seem to forget and don't understand is the effect of how regulated recruiting is and it's affects. A coach can't just go out a hire and fire at will. When u have to rebuild at every position on the team it takes time. He didn't have the luxury of focusing heavily in what area and then the next year the same. That's ideal.

Losing out on Santos and Peters last minute really hurt, but it really tough to have kept them such last second and compete with what it took to get them to switch. Dooley had us in on some good RBs last year. Had our "hat" on a big one vs bama, and then CBJ couldn't seal up the other Green with 2 months time. And then gets rid of a former player yet dooley is the one that doesn't like former players which shows the stupidity of people. We have to hope CBJ learns soon what it takes to win in the SEC. One thing is kissing the ring of the coaches in the least talented pool in the region isn't going to help talent wise.

So no it was enough time especially with all the other factors involved with the program at the time. Throw on top of it The Legion of the Miserable to help opposing coaches too. CBJ doesn't have issues surrounding the AD and program like Dooley so if he really "gets it" he should have enough time. He is also getting paid A LOT more than dooley so CBJ really has no room but to get this done ASAP.

My biggest concern with CBJ right now is his learning curve of what it takes to win championships in the SEC. He is an SEC neophyte both recruiting and coaching scheme. If he doesn't do this quick he won't be around to long.
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Pray tell, who did Butch "get rid of"?

 

[Lexvol]

No way enough time to rebuild this team with talent. To much of a #s deficit after kiffin. For goodness sake we had to start the season with a true freshman and a juco transfer. What people seem to forget and don't understand is the effect of how regulated recruiting is and it's affects. A coach can't just go out a hire and fire at will. When u have to rebuild at every position on the team it takes time. He didn't have the luxury of focusing heavily in what area and then the next year the same. That's ideal.

Losing out on Santos and Peters last minute really hurt, but it really tough to have kept them such last second and compete with what it took to get them to switch. Dooley had us in on some good RBs last year. Had our "hat" on a big one vs bama, and then CBJ couldn't seal up the other Green with 2 months time. And then gets rid of a former player yet dooley is the one that doesn't like former players which shows the stupidity of people. We have to hope CBJ learns soon what it takes to win in the SEC. One thing is kissing the ring of the coaches in the least talented pool in the region isn't going to help talent wise.

So no it was enough time especially with all the other factors involved with the program at the time. Throw on top of it The Legion of the Miserable to help opposing coaches too. CBJ doesn't have issues surrounding the AD and program like Dooley so if he really "gets it" he should have enough time. He is also getting paid A LOT more than dooley so CBJ really has no room but to get this done ASAP.

My biggest concern with CBJ right now is his learning curve of what it takes to win championships in the SEC. He is an SEC neophyte both recruiting and coaching scheme. If he doesn't do this quick he won't be around to long.
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One does get the sense that there is some on the job learning going on.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

He kept that hair gorgeous.

 

[Oskie Volum]

One does get the sense that there is some on the job learning going on.

Which is normal and fine to a certain extent. A program like UT u can't have that. Especially when u r competing against the best in the nation, and have a fan base expecting it now. Not enough time to be learning on the job at the level CBJ is having to, and the amount he is getting paid.

Lots of programs like TCU, Oregon, Stanford heck even USCjr were able to be built little by little and coaches could make mistakes. UT isn't one of those programs.
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[photovol]

Dooley's arrogance cost him with the coaches as well as the players, especially since he had absolutely nothing to be arrogant about.....he was a Nothing and used his dads name to advance his floundering career

 

[peyton4heisman]

Stayed hunkered down in a fox hole looking out for Germans

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

One does get the sense that there is some on the job learning going on.

One does indeed. However, I think CBJ is a much quicker study than the Master of Bamboo.

 

[oregonvol]

No way enough time to rebuild this team with talent. To much of a #s deficit after kiffin. For goodness sake we had to start the season with a true freshman and a juco transfer. What people seem to forget and don't understand is the effect of how regulated recruiting is and it's affects. A coach can't just go out and hire and fire at will. When u have to rebuild at every position on the team it takes time. He didn't have the luxury of focusing heavily in one area and then the next year the same. That's ideal.

Losing out on Santos and Peters last minute really hurt, but it's really tough to have kept them such last second and compete with what it took to get them to switch. Dooley had us in on some good RBs last year. Had our "hat" on a big one vs bama, and then CBJ couldn't seal up the other Green with 2 months time. And then gets rid of a former player yet dooley doesn't like former players which shows the stupidity of people just trying to find things to b*tch about. We have to hope CBJ learns soon what it takes to win in the SEC. One thing is kissing the ring of the coaches in the least talented pool in the region cause that isn't going to help talent wise.

So no it wasnt enough time especially with all the other factors involved with the program at the time. Throw on top of it The Legion of the Miserable to help opposing coaches too. CBJ doesn't have issues surrounding the AD and program like Dooley so if he really "gets it" he should have enough time. He is also getting paid A LOT more than dooley so CBJ really has no room but to get this done ASAP.

My biggest concern with CBJ right now is his learning curve of what it takes to win championships in the SEC. He is an SEC neophyte both recruiting and coaching scheme. If he doesn't do this quick he won't be around to long.
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Your boy got blown out by Vanderbilt, where James Franklin inherited a 2-10 team a year after Dooley got the TN job. Don't tell me that he just didn't have enough time or didn't inherit enough talent.

 

[butchna]

Somewhere in the darkness of my mind I have a joke about a time traveling Vol fan showing up when Vince and Barbara conceived lil' Derek....but I will keep it to myself for the good of Vol Nation.

Does the punch line involve a coat hanger?
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