What must be done to Unite the Country

[AM64]

Wrong. What you are doing here is telling me what is an acceptable lifestyle based on the lowest denominator.

That's what the left - socialism and communism are all about. They aren't happy until everybody is equally miserable. It makes no sense to aim for the bottom.

 

[Serene]

You do realize a lot of us pay income tax on our SS "income" don't you?

Yes, the people making additional income above Social Security to the point where they have to pay federal income taxes obviously means that they're not in the group of retirees who don't pay federal income taxes (to which I was referring). In general, I think it's silly to pay federal income taxes on an income which you're ostensibly getting because you already paid a payroll tax.

 

[Y9 Vol]

That's what the left - socialism and communism are all about. They aren't happy until everybody is equally miserable. It makes no sense to aim for the bottom.

Except the ruling class

 

[Serene]

You're not arguing a principle here. Just arbitrary goalposts.

I'm arguing that, in general, it's melodramatic to call taxes slavery and theft. That's the principle.

 

[Y9 Vol]

Yes, the people making additional income above Social Security to the point where they have to pay federal income taxes obviously means that they're not in the group of retirees who don't pay federal income taxes (to which I was referring). In general, I think it's silly to pay federal income taxes on an income which you're ostensibly getting because you already paid a payroll tax.

So, you agree that what is paid in over the workers lifetime is just a loan to the government?

 

[allvol123]

I'm arguing that, in general, it's melodramatic to call taxes slavery and theft. That's the principle.

What happens if you dont pay?

 

[ajvol01]

Sorry, I kicked the hornet's nest so it's been a pain to try to keep up with all the responses. I saw this one, but got sidetracked in another response.

Yes, I agree that at the moment (as in for the last couple of decades at least) we don't generally pay the principal on our debt.

Yes, I agree that the current debt is unmanageable at our current spending level/tax revenue (even pre-COVID). It's not wholly unmanageable if we do the sensible thing and start eating away at the principal by increasing tax revenue or decreasing spending (ideally a combination of both). However, it will still take a long time to get back to manageable levels and it's a problem if we face another big crisis, which is inevitable.

Just consider what happens if interest rates ever increase significantly (think 3-5%)

The debt service would suddenly take up a quarter, a third or an even bigger piece of our current budgets.

It’s a national security issue that needs to be addressed before our financial system implodes - everyone can see the risk, but no one is doing anything to fix it.

 

[Serene]

Except the ruling class

How very proletariat of you to complain about the ruling class.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I didn't realize that you were also talking about starting taxes after $30000 for the individual--most of your posts indicate that you want everyone to pay the same tax rate on all income. That changes the proposal to be much more reasonable for low income earners and would probably earn a lot more support to pass, but I don't think it really helps your position. You're complaining about 51% of the population not paying income taxes, but that portion would be likely be around the same or even higher if the personal deduction was $30,000 compared to the current $12,400. A person who was making $15 an hour, which is apparently absurdly high for a minimum wage, would only pay $120 per year in federal income taxes (and that's only if they don't reduce their taxable income at all by investing in a 401k, etc.). At the moment, that same person would pay $2059 per year, unless they get tax credits for having kids. So why not just lower some of the tax breaks we give to people with children?

Why should anyone get a ta break for having children?

 

[AM64]

Will people ever realize that the federal government (regardless which party is in power) desires that the vast majority of citizens only have enough money to be content. They want the rest.

Apparently a lot of the government wants to put the most recent malcontents in prison - not so much the earlier malcontents. Could basically boil down to the recent malcontents were unhappy with the government itself, and the earlier malcontents were just unhappy with anyone else.

Sorry, hog. Wrong place for my comment.

 

[Y9 Vol]

How very proletariat of you to complain about the ruling class.

Am I an elected official...you are clueless.

 

[Serene]

So, you agree that what is paid in over the workers lifetime is just a loan to the government?

I don't agree that's how it is, but that might be a better system. In general, I don't think the Social Security system is particularly great; I haven't given it a lot of thought, but it seems to me that, on the face of it, a private account system would be preferable.

 

[Serene]

What happens if you dont pay?

You're looking for, "You go to jail," which can eventually happen if you don't pay. We don't tend to call enforcing punishments for other crimes slavery or theft.

 

[allvol123]

You're looking for, "You go to jail," which can eventually happen if you don't pay. We don't tend to call enforcing punishments for other crimes slavery or theft.

Enforcing punishment for not harming another person or stealing? Why are you being punished?

 

[Serene]

Just consider what happens if interest rates ever increase significantly (think 3-5%)

The debt service would suddenly take up a quarter, a third or an even bigger piece of our current budgets.

It’s a national security issue that needs to be addressed before our financial system implodes - everyone can see the risk, but no one is doing anything to fix it.

I don't disagree with you, you're preaching to the choir. This is one of the big reasons that I don't see all the calls for drastically lowering taxes for everyone as a viable solution. There's no way that we can do that and also reasonably cut enough of the budget to make headway on debt payments. We would barely have enough to cover interest payments on the huge debt we already have.

 

[AM64]

Liberals ‘ostracizing, ridiculing’ conservatives with frequent rhetoric comparing them to Hitler, terrorists

Which one would you like to see cracked up side the head the most?

All of them? And not just the ones pictured.

 

[Serene]

Am I an elected official...you are clueless.

Bud, it's a joke. Lighten up.

 

[Serene]

Why should anyone get a ta break for having children?

I didn't argue that they should. In fact, I asked why we don't lower those tax breaks.

(In fact, Donald Trump doubled the Child Tax Credit.)

 

[Serene]

Enforcing punishment for not harming another person or stealing? Why are you being punished?

Society has lots of laws that punish people for not directly harming another person. If you can convince enough people to not make it a crime, then maybe we can do that.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

This forum is indicative of the fact that we have much to do in order to achieve unity in this country. For the short-term anyway

 

[AM64]

One where the government isnt relied on for food, housing, retirement by an ever growing number of its population.

But you know we no longer need industry, so those people have to get income somewhere. I've never understood the thought that if you put a machine to work digging a ditch and it replaces fifty workers how those fifty workers are supposed to have an income - not a great example, but how do the disemployed make an income.

 

[ajvol01]

I don't disagree with you, you're preaching to the choir. This is one of the big reasons that I don't see all the calls for drastically lowering taxes for everyone as a viable solution. There's no way that we can do that and also reasonably cut enough of the budget to make headway on debt payments. We would barely have enough to cover interest payments on the huge debt we already have.

Ultimately cutting spending is the only way it gets fixed.

Trump’s tax cuts resulted in increased revenues no matter how many people like to argue the opposite.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I didn't argue that they should. In fact, I asked why we don't lower those tax breaks.

(In fact, Donald Trump doubled the Child Tax Credit.)

Newsflash: Not every Republican agrees with everything 'their guy' does, unlike you Socialists. Of course I know that the only negative thing I ever heard about Saint Obama from the left was that he didn't go far enough with more entitlements.

 

[Serene]

Newsflash: Not every Republican agrees with everything 'their guy' does, unlike you Socialists. Of course I know that the only negative thing I ever heard about Saint Obama from the left was that he didn't go far enough with more entitlements.

I've disagreed with several policies of Democratic presidents in this very thread, so I guess you're saying I'm not a socialist?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You're looking for, "You go to jail," which can eventually happen if you don't pay. We don't tend to call enforcing punishments for other crimes slavery or theft.

Name another thing that you are forced to do that is comparable to turning over your property to the government.