What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#601
#601
utmba93 said:
That's fair. We want the same thing. Championships. Anything short of that and we want a new coach.

Whether Dooley is like Coach K is to be seen. But UT is not like Duke basketball before Coach K. The ditch is not that deep.
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Duke won an ACC title and was in the Final 4 two short years before Coach K was hired. That ditch is delusionally deep.
 
#602
#602
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
　

You do realize that Coach Majors took over a program which was at about the same talent level as we have now, and it took him seven years to have a 9 win season, and 9 years to win the SEC, yet you are wanting to fire Coach Dooley before he coaches his first game.
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
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I didn't say he should be fired. The whole thread has focused on how much time should he get.

Seven to nine years is likely what it will be. That's my concern. That's a lot of mediocre football.
 
#604
#604
utmba93 said:
I didn't say he should be fired. The whole thread has focused on how much time should he get.

Seven to nine years is likely what it will be. That's my concern. That's a lot of mediocre football.
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He's not going to get nine years if he doesn't win against Florida and Alabama. No way. This is a guy with no political power like Fulmer wielded, hired by a desperate, weakened AD. He'll get a leash, but not a ridiculously endless one.
 
#605
#605
Vercingetorix said:
In every area of life, there are four possible outcomes:

1. Success
2. Failure, but with evidence of progress towards eventual success
3. Failure with no evidence of progress
4. Aimless failure, without the introspection to know what it means

You either win or you lose, yes. But not all failures are the same. Even the Great Jackass Nick Saban, best college coach in America, began with a better situation than Dooley inherits and still went 6-6 his first year with a loss to Louisiana-Monroe. Evidence of progress will not be hard to see. You look for a tough, disciplined team that plays hard regardless of the score. You look for a staff that doesn't seem to be schematically overmatched by Florida and Alabama, even if their superior players push ours around. You look for a team that, injuries notwithstanding, generally gets better as the season goes on.

We're going to know whether Dooley's a legitimate SEC coach next season. Maybe then we can start worrying about whether he's a championship-level coach, but if he's the complete pretender that his raw WAC record would suggest, he'll be exposed quickly.
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Another good post, Verci. I agree on most counts.

I hope by season's end, I see his potential as a championship-level coach. At this stage, it seems highly improbable.
 
#606
#606
jarvol said:
Dooley needs to be held to the same standards as Fulmer - "your words, not mine".

Ring a bell dumbass?

Fulmer had 10 years of no hardware so isn't that what you want to give Dooley?
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Is this where we're supposed to call each other names and act like fools? If so, I'll pass.
 
#607
#607
utmba93 said:
I didn't say he should be fired. The whole thread has focused on how much time should he get.

Seven to nine years is likely what it will be. That's my concern. That's a lot of mediocre football.
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1. You're assuming mediocre football before he ever coaches a game.

2. In the age of call in shows/internet message boards, I don't think that could happen with an historically top 10 program and an unproven coach.
 
#608
#608
utmba93 said:
That's fair. We want the same thing. Championships. Anything short of that and we want a new coach.

Whether Dooley is like Coach K is to be seen. But UT is not like Duke basketball before Coach K. The ditch is not that deep.
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Duke's basketball team before Coach K was actually very good. Duke went to the national championship game in 1978, won a share of the ACC title in 1979, and won the ACC Tournament and made the Great Eight in 1980.

They struggled in Coach K's first few years because the former coach (Bill Foster) and then K whiffed on recruiting every year between 1979 and 1982. In '83, K hit the recruiting lottery (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, David Henderson and Jay Bilas in the same class) and Duke was back in business by '84. But he only survived his first three years (17-13, 10-17, 11-17) because his AD believed in him.

Dooley knows he's expected to win championships. The man is the son of an SEC coaching legend, for crying out loud. He knows what he's getting into and is willing to try his luck. Coach K knew that when he went from a 9-17 season at Army to coach Duke, too.
 
#610
#610
utmba93 said:
I didn't say he should be fired. The whole thread has focused on how much time should he get.

Seven to nine years is likely what it will be. That's my concern. That's a lot of mediocre football.
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I'm willing to give him 2-3 seasons, which is the same thing I said about Kiffin.
 
#611
#611
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
1. You're assuming mediocre football before he ever coaches a game.

2. In the age of call in shows/internet message boards, I don't think that could happen with an historically top 10 program and an unproven coach.
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Your posts and Verci's are helpful.

Basically, I'm ready to see the Vols play championship football again and I really felt CLK and his staff were on track. This feels like a setback, but reasoning should prevail, if that turns out to be the case.

I'm glad we've all had this discussion. I'll try to put it behind me. I want what's best for the Vols. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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#612
#612
utmba93 said:
Your posts and Verci's are helpful.

Basically, I'm ready to see the Vols play championship football again and I really felt CLK and his staff were on track. This feels like a setback, but reasoning should prevail, if that turns out to be the case.

I'm glad we've all had this discussion. I'll try to put it behind me. I want what's best for the Vols. Nothing more, nothing less.
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So am I, and I felt the same way. We'll see how it goes over the next couple of seasons.
 
#613
#613
utmba93 said:
Another good post, Verci. I agree on most counts.

I hope by season's end, I see his potential as a championship-level coach. At this stage, it seems highly improbable.
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I'm not that worried right now about whether he's a championship-level coach. I just hope that he's at least an adequate SEC coach, and that the "recruiting coordinator at LSU for Nick Saban" part of his resume actually means something. Considering the situation we were in, I won't be that disappointed if ultimately we turn out to have hired our Ron Zook (UF edition) or Ed Orgeron (Ole Miss edition), somebody who may not be that great a coach but who leaves the larder well-stocked for the next guy.

The night Kiffin left, everybody raged about what a huge hole this left us in, how it set the program back years, etc etc etc. Which was true, at least potentially. I'm worried first about digging ourselves out of that hole, and then I'll be worried about championships later. Progress first, championships later. Considering what the DL and the OL and the QB positions look like right now, worrying overmuch about championships right off the bat is pointless. We've got digging to do first.
 
#614
#614
Vercingetorix said:
Considering the situation we were in, I won't be that disappointed if ultimately we turn out to have hired our Ron Zook (UF edition) or Ed Orgeron (Ole Miss edition), somebody who may not be that great a coach but who leaves the larder well-stocked for the next guy.
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That wouldn't be the worst case. However, I wouldn't be surprised if too many of our fans would beg whoever the AD is to keep Dooley around until the recruits stopped coming altogether. I really think this Kiffin situation has scared the fan base of change.
 
#615
#615
I don't post much but on this I can't resist....IMO CDD will be fine..Comparing what he did at La Tech with his potential here is unfair...If you ask folks in Ruston, La about Coach Dooley, they often mention "miracle" when describing what he did there..Don't forget, he was the ONLY man in Division I football to be Head Coach AND Athletic Director and did it quite well...ALL the sports at La Tech received major upgrades in both facilities and performance while he still managed to take their football program to another level...With the resources he now has at UT I think he will take our prgram back to the top...Tradition is what has made UT football special for me for years but winning has made it special for ALL vol fans for decades, including me...I don't expect mediocrity from our program and definitely feel those days are over...Gee, just think how good it will feel to win, and do it with CLASS....Dooley can get it done IMO, just give him a chance...
 
#617
#617
tvolsfan said:
That wouldn't be the worst case. However, I wouldn't be surprised if too many of our fans would beg whoever the AD is to keep Dooley around until the recruits stopped coming altogether. I really think this Kiffin situation has scared the fan base of change.
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I don't think the fans will matter. I think that the giant boosters are friends of Fulmer's, and that the fact that they let Hamilton throw Fulmer overboard is going to weigh on them for awhile, so if Dooley's not delivering the goods any better than Fulmer did, the leash will be short. They stood by and let Fulmer get dumped to win the SEC, dammit. And they're not going to settle for anything less, I don't think. Fulmer was the only one who was entrenched enough to be impossible to get rid of.
 
#620
#620
nickknx865 said:
Joking?
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If you guys dont think winning 9 games in the SEC is a good year you are delusional. NOBODY has maintained dominance over the SEC here since the General. I want to win championships as much as anybody here. But there is a lot more to being a good coach than just winning championships. If we are winning 9-11 games a year AND COMPETING for the SEC champ every year. I will be happy. We have TWO NCAA titles in over 100 years. If you are only going to be happy with titles. You will never be happy with any coach. NO COACH has done that here. It don't matter how good he is. GO VOLS
 
#621
#621
Coach Dooley said it best, "While I'm sure had I'd stayed with Nick, that I might have been a more popular candidate for this job now. I am CERTAIN that I am a better and more qualified candidate, by doing what I did the last 3 years."

And I know everyone and even UT's Head Coach hates "sound bytes", but I have to say myself and everyone else on here agrees with this quote.

The majority of Volnation wanted Will Muschamp or some other "high profiled" assistant. Maybe the other minority wanted the TCU or Boise Head coach, hell even I was screaming for Muschamp last year before we got "X". But, like Kiffin, Muschamp, Patterson, Peterson, or whoever "big shot" is out here, OUR head coach has to prove himself on the road recruiting and on the field executing play-calling in the SEC.

Look at what this man did with only 2 weeks of recruiting. I can sit here and type off names that Dooley pulled in that "X" didn't and you can sit there and type names "X" brought in. But was it really the coaches who got top caliber players to join UT's roster? Is it really that hard to convince a true athlete to join this team? I may be biased here but it looks to me that we are HANDING out Budweiser while the other guys are SELLING Natty Ice.

I know it's hard for a lot of Vol "faithful" to recognize this, but it may take some time. AND SO! IF the time does get here, like it did for Coach Fulmer, only after 4 years of coaching and we start winning BCS bowls and even National Championships. What then? It never lasts... Look at Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, USC, Texas, OU, hell even the BIG Orange.... it WILL end for UT. Fulmer was a failure from his own success. So then what? Fire our coach? Start all over again???

I'm not saying we will win right away or that Coach Dooley will even bring us any sort of Championship but, I'll end this like I begun it, with a UT Head Football Coach's quote;

"This institution has been here a long time and it will be here a long time after me and this football program has a ridiculous tradition of winning, for a long time. We're going to win here and it's going to win a long time after."

You are a fool if you don't believe that quote.....
 
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#623
#623
When I first read the title I thought, what an idiot. Then I said no wait, lets read the thread first before jumping to conclusions. I did and said what an idiot! Then I said no, lets read through 16 pages of replys and maybe I missed something. I did read them and I stick by my original thought, What an idiot!! The guy's here said it much better than I could. :mad:
 
#624
#624
tvolsfan said:
Gruden would still have been an excellent hire. Unless he's a lazy recruiter, he'd have a ton of success in college.
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yes recruiting is key, and an unknown with JG. a big unknown.

also unknown if he would be willing to put forth the sweat equity.

he might have done great at UT. but he is not a sabanesque slam dunk. no one is.
 
#625
#625
tigervol9802 said:
Further proof that you don't have to be that bright to get an MBA.
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I believe it was Mark Twain that said "The world is full of educated idiots." Is there a message here?

No body can predict the future, but with what DD has done so far, it has shone he can get things done. He has a great coaching staff and recruited well. Can he coach at UT, I believe he can, but we will see.
 
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