What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#626
#626
Vercingetorix said:
I'm not that worried right now about whether he's a championship-level coach. I just hope that he's at least an adequate SEC coach, and that the "recruiting coordinator at LSU for Nick Saban" part of his resume actually means something. Considering the situation we were in, I won't be that disappointed if ultimately we turn out to have hired our Ron Zook (UF edition) or Ed Orgeron (Ole Miss edition), somebody who may not be that great a coach but who leaves the larder well-stocked for the next guy.
Click to expand...

tvolsfan said:
That wouldn't be the worst case. However, I wouldn't be surprised if too many of our fans would beg whoever the AD is to keep Dooley around until the recruits stopped coming altogether. I really think this Kiffin situation has scared the fan base of change.
Click to expand...


Then, it seems there are two key steps to relevance:

1) Dooley recruits like Zook.

That seems like the most realistic upside. Of course, to do that at UT, he'll have to be a LOT better than Zook as we don't have the in-state talent Zook had.

2) After recruiting like Zook (and even achieving Zook-like results), UT will need to replace him with someone like Urban Meyer.

If nothing else, this thread demonstrates that there are a lot of UT fans with blinders and who are fine with mediocrity. There will be less support to replace him with Zook-like recruiting and even Zook-like results than there was to replace Fulmer.

Both steps, to get back to relevance, are huge concerns. But it is where we are (best case). As much as I dislike Hamilton's actions of late and their role in putting us here, he seems to have the backbone that this kind of an unpopular move would require.

In making the decision, he'd get a lot more name-calling than this thread generated. However, I'm pretty sure he'll know, it's mostly from clueless Homers who have no sense of what it takes to compete at a level above where Fulmer was (e.g. winning the East every few years).

However, once the decision is done, and the new coach is hired, the AD and new coach can count on the same blind support from this crowd, that they have now.
 
Last edited:
#627
#627
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever lose a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he will ever not win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the worst he can do is win 10 games in his first year at UT, but never any less than that. In the meantime, many coaches in the SEC concede that he will out recruit them, but that they will settle for competing for 2nd place.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want the Vols to lose a few, let me clarify in saying that you're right, I don't.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'Supremecy' at UT over the next 1 or 2 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley only win and not dominate, allowing his opponents a fair shot be good enough?
 
Last edited:
#630
#630
suPEARLman said:
Coach Dooley said it best, "While I'm sure had I'd stayed with Nick, that I might have been a more popular candidate for this job now. I am CERTAIN that I am a better and more qualified candidate, by doing what I did the last 3 years."

And I know everyone and even UT's Head Coach hates "sound bytes", but I have to say myself and everyone else on here agrees with this quote.
Click to expand...

Probably true... but he could have remained on CNS's staff and I wouldn't be too impressed with the hire.
 
#633
#633
Haha... here's the thread the Homers wanted and it was started by someone predicting a 12-0 season this fall.

Get out your orange shakers and make some noise. :lolabove:
 
#635
#635
Vercingetorix said:
In every area of life, there are four possible outcomes:

1. Success
2. Failure, but with evidence of progress towards eventual success
3. Failure with no evidence of progress
4. Aimless failure, without the introspection to know what it means

You either win or you lose, yes. But not all failures are the same. Even the Great Jackass Nick Saban, best college coach in America, began with a better situation than Dooley inherits and still went 6-6 his first year with a loss to Louisiana-Monroe. Evidence of progress will not be hard to see. You look for a tough, disciplined team that plays hard regardless of the score. You look for a staff that doesn't seem to be schematically overmatched by Florida and Alabama, even if their superior players push ours around. You look for a team that, injuries notwithstanding, generally gets better as the season goes on.

We're going to know whether Dooley's a legitimate SEC coach next season. Maybe then we can start worrying about whether he's a championship-level coach, but if he's the complete pretender that his raw WAC record would suggest, he'll be exposed quickly.
Click to expand...

Good Post, but I can't help to wonder where CLM would fit into your four possible outcomes. I know this is a tangent but he doesn't fit nicely into either of the four. Either we need a new category or just accept that he is an exception to the rule.

Again, my apologies for the tangent but it pains me to watch all that talent go to LSU to play for that buffoon.
 
#638
#638
UTVOL02 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever lose a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he will ever not win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the worst he can do is win 10 games in his first year at UT, but never any less than that. In the meantime, many coaches in the SEC concede that he will out recruit them, but that they will settle for competing for 2nd place.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want the Vols to lose a few, let me clarify in saying that you're right, I don't.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'Supremecy' at UT over the next 1 or 2 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley only win and not dominate, allowing his opponents a fair shot be good enough?
Click to expand...

OK first off Dooley is gonna be a good coach for UT Second its gonna TAKE awhile for Tenn to get back atop the SEC east and play for sec championship. The last few yrs of Fulmer with recuriting and then Kiffin well Alabama and Florida and LSU and now Auburn have been getting great classes while we havent in the last few yrs so it will take awhile to catch up.
 
#639
#639
3L with debt said:
Probably true... but he could have remained on CNS's staff and I wouldn't be too impressed with the hire.
Click to expand...

Please point out where I said myself or anyone should be "impressed" with this hire. But, since you bring it up EXPERT, what reasonable hire 2 weeks before NSD in 2010 would have been "impressive" to you? Notice the word reasonable.

Don't worry, I'll wait....
 
#642
#642
VKAman said:
That's cool and all, but it really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Really? You think ethics and morality aren't important? That's certainly informative.

You aren't Kiffin are you? The way you twist and squirm to defend the guy and then making this glaring admission... It makes one wonder.
 
#643
#643
The best thing for the future of UT football would be for Dooley's team to get the most out of its talent next year and in the years to come, to continue to bring in strong recruiting classes and developing players year after year, which would lead to steady improvement on an annual basis.

If those things happen, the wins will take care of themselves.
 
#644
#644
sjt18 said:
Really? You think ethics and morality aren't important? That's certainly informative.

You aren't Kiffin are you? The way you twist and squirm to defend the guy and then making this glaring admission... It makes one wonder.
Click to expand...

This was the potential downside of an extended CLK era at UT. Probation would be a lot worse than Dooley and I don't want UT associated with unethical practices. I can concede that much. :hi:
 
#645
#645
VKAman said:
He left for a better job and more money...stop acting like he's the Oklahoma City bomber...
Click to expand...
That's an exaggeration tactic called "poisoning the well".

Let me be totally clear. People leave jobs for better opportunities all of the time for a variety of reasons. EVERYONE who leaves ANY job is dissatisfied about something. Seldom if EVER is it only about money or even title.

I'm NOT surprised that Kiffin left. I called him a mercenary when he was hired. Someone here told me right quick that they didn't care if he'd hang around 3-5 years and win a championship.

It isn't that Kiffin left... it is the completely and totally classless, ungrateful, and unethical way that he did it.

No one wanted him when UT hired him. He was damaged goods. Yet UT not only hired him but gave him an incredible level of support and tolerated many things he did.

He talked a grand "game" about championships, loyalty, discipline, challenges, the greatness of UT, his gratitude for the opportunity, etc.

With all that, I'd still have no problem if he'd left after 2-4 years for USC or anywhere else. For that matter, I wouldn't have really had a problem if he'd left in November so long as he'd kept his promise not to do anything to undermine UT or its recruiting efforts.

How you as a supposed UT fan can still sit there and rationalize and make excuses for the guy after what they did AFTER leaving is beyond me. Even if you're OK with the fact he was so disloyal and ungrateful that he left after only a year... I can't believe that you so easily forgive the fact that he did thing specifically to hurt UT and broke his word after leaving.
 
#646
#646
3L with debt said:
Good Post, but I can't help to wonder where CLM would fit into your four possible outcomes. I know this is a tangent but he doesn't fit nicely into either of the four. Either we need a new category or just accept that he is an exception to the rule.

Again, my apologies for the tangent but it pains me to watch all that talent go to LSU to play for that buffoon.
Click to expand...

Les Miles is a rich man's Ron Zook. He's just good enough on gameday to get by.

I suspect it won't be a problem after this year. LSU will win 9 or 10 games, but should have won more (again), and LSU's fanbase will be frustrated as heck but not able to fire him.

But Michigan will have a third straight losing season and fire Rich Rod. They'll come calling for a "Michigan man," and they'll find him in Baton Rouge. After three years of RR, they'll take 10-2 seasons with one inexplicable loss a year...as long as he beats Ohio State at least half the time.
 
#647
#647
sjt18 said:
That's an exaggeration tactic called "poisoning the well".

Let me be totally clear. People leave jobs for better opportunities all of the time for a variety of reasons. EVERYONE who leaves ANY job is dissatisfied about something. Seldom if EVER is it only about money or even title.

I'm NOT surprised that Kiffin left. I called him a mercenary when he was hired. Someone here told me right quick that they didn't care if he'd hang around 3-5 years and win a championship.

It isn't that Kiffin left... it is the completely and totally classless, ungrateful, and unethical way that he did it.

No one wanted him when UT hired him. He was damaged goods. Yet UT not only hired him but gave him an incredible level of support and tolerated many things he did.

He talked a grand "game" about championships, loyalty, discipline, challenges, the greatness of UT, his gratitude for the opportunity, etc.

With all that, I'd still have no problem if he'd left after 2-4 years for USC or anywhere else. For that matter, I wouldn't have really had a problem if he'd left in November so long as he'd kept his promise not to do anything to undermine UT or its recruiting efforts.

How you as a supposed UT fan can still sit there and rationalize and make excuses for the guy after what they did AFTER leaving is beyond me. Even if you're OK with the fact he was so disloyal and ungrateful that he left after only a year... I can't believe that you so easily forgive the fact that he did thing specifically to hurt UT and broke his word after leaving.
Click to expand...

Kiffen would have very likely have been fired by the end of the 2010 season for a variety of issues anyway, ala Jerry Green. The guy was wearing thin even for the most ardent Vol fans. The timing of his leaving is the only real issue I have with him. Anyway this thread is about should we wish CDD loses early so we can fire him and hire someone who can win championships. Wow..AD Hamilton doesn't have the clout of a Mal Morre so if DD goes early MH won't be far behind. If that happens then it may be 10 years before the Vols get back to 8-4 on a regular basis. So let's all be careful what we wish for.:stop:
 
#648
#648
3L with debt said:
Good Post, but I can't help to wonder where CLM would fit into your four possible outcomes. I know this is a tangent but he doesn't fit nicely into either of the four. Either we need a new category or just accept that he is an exception to the rule.

Again, my apologies for the tangent but it pains me to watch all that talent go to LSU to play for that buffoon.
Click to expand...

He seems pretty cut and dried to me. He took over a championship-level program and maintained it for awhile, which counts as success. Despite the fact that he's still recruiting at an elite level, his program has clearly slipped in the last couple of years -- i.e., failure no evidence of continued progress. He needs to turn the ship around quickly down there before he gets branded as Larry Coker Redux (which I think we all know he is) and gets dumped.
 
#650
#650
1974Vol said:
Anyway this thread is about should we wish CDD loses early so we can fire him and hire someone who can win championships. Wow..AD Hamilton doesn't have the clout of a Mal Morre so if DD goes early MH won't be far behind. If that happens then it may be 10 years before the Vols get back to 8-4 on a regular basis. So let's all be careful what we wish for.:stop:
Click to expand...

Thanks for bring us back around to the topic of this thread, which I find very unnerving. I don't think we should ever wish for a coach to lose early. We have no idea of the capabilities that Dooley has. For all we know he could be more of a legacy at Tennessee than any other coach in our past or he may not even win us a game. It does no good to negatively speculate on the subject of him as head coach. It's a done deal. What we need to do now is rally behind him and wish for the best. So to answer your question: It's best if Dooley wins.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top