What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#676
#676
superdawg51 said:
The boy can't expect to ride on the laurels of his father. His w/l record in his 1st job speaks volumes. Sure he has better resources at UT but will that guarantee success?
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no, the UT resources do not guarantee success.

nor does his record at LTech, viewed in a vacuum, guarantee failure.
 
#677
#677
3L with debt said:
You misread.

I'm not waiting.
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What?!!???? :fool:

Not sure how I could "misread" this simple 19 word sentence
3L with debt said:
Probably true... but he could have remained on CNS's staff and I wouldn't be too impressed with the hire.
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It simply states, you wouldn't be impressed with CDD no matter what.

So I'll ask my question again. What reasonable hire 2 weeks before NSD would be "impressive" to 3L with debt?

And again, don't worry..... I'll wait.
 
#678
#678
sjt18 said:
Let me be totally clear. People leave jobs for better opportunities all of the time for a variety of reasons. EVERYONE who leaves ANY job is dissatisfied about something. Seldom if EVER is it only about money or even title.
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very true.

large corps such as IBM lose a lot of money with employee turnover, so academics spend time researching what it takes to keep employees from leaving.

most people think that the answer is simple, i.e. money and benefits. just pay 'em more and throw a party or two or have a good dental plan and they will stay. wrong.

the overall #1 factor in employee retention is satisfaction with one's supervisor.

boy blunder put together an impressive staff, but attrition started quickly. perhaps because he is an a-hole to work for?

his 1st season certainly had some positives. but the jury is out on whether he could retain quality staff, avoid the NCAA watchdogs, and more importantly, be a competitive SEC coach.
 
#679
#679
sjt18 said:
Really? You think ethics and morality aren't important? That's certainly informative.

You aren't Kiffin are you? The way you twist and squirm to defend the guy and then making this glaring admission... It makes one wonder.
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Do you think Bama fans care even a little bit that Saban flat-out lied about taking that job?

The textbook thing is a bigger violation than anything Kiffin did while here, and you're acting like Kiffin is operating on some unprecedented level of immorality in the ninth circle of hell. Go try to tell a Bama fan how "unethical" Saban is. They'll tell you they're national champions.
 
#680
#680
suPEARLman said:
What?!!???? :fool:

Not sure how I could "misread" this simple 19 word sentence


It simply states, you wouldn't be impressed with CDD no matter what.

So I'll ask my question again. What reasonable hire 2 weeks before NSD would be "impressive" to 3L with debt?

And again, don't worry..... I'll wait.
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You asked where you said, or anyone else, that a person should be impressed... You misread a 19 word sentence (amazing, but true). I simply said that I was not too impressed regardless whether or not he remained with CNS or that POS school he came from. I guess you are. The only part of my response attributed to your post was "probably true." Again, you misread.

He may be successful but the only objective evidence we have would suggest otherwise.

My apologies for quoting you. School is out.
 
#681
#681
superdawg51 said:
The boy can't expect to ride on the laurels of his father. His w/l record in his 1st job speaks volumes. Sure he has better resources at UT but will that guarantee success?
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Not playing under his father at UGA, following his own path by taking the LA Tech job....need any further examples of how he has NOT ridden his father's coattails?
 
#682
#682
Going by a different name, perhaps?

I jest but his last name helps a bunch.... Any person can recognize that.
 
#683
#683
sjt18 said:
That's an exaggeration tactic called "poisoning the well".

Let me be totally clear. People leave jobs for better opportunities all of the time for a variety of reasons. EVERYONE who leaves ANY job is dissatisfied about something. Seldom if EVER is it only about money or even title.
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Revisit the post you quoted then. Promotion, money, and going home. Like Gran and Wilson, Kiffin got all three when USC offered him. What logical person would turn all three of those down?

No one wanted him when UT hired him. He was damaged goods. Yet UT not only hired him but gave him an incredible level of support and tolerated many things he did.
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This doesn't matter. He didn't owe us anything but the buyout. He paid it. Case closed.

He talked a grand "game" about championships, loyalty, discipline, challenges, the greatness of UT, his gratitude for the opportunity, etc.
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This is what coaches do...

With all that, I'd still have no problem if he'd left after 2-4 years for USC or anywhere else. For that matter, I wouldn't have really had a problem if he'd left in November so long as he'd kept his promise not to do anything to undermine UT or its recruiting efforts.

How you as a supposed UT fan can still sit there and rationalize and make excuses for the guy after what they did AFTER leaving is beyond me. Even if you're OK with the fact he was so disloyal and ungrateful that he left after only a year... I can't believe that you so easily forgive the fact that he did thing specifically to hurt UT and broke his word after leaving.
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Him leaving has nothing to do with being disloyal or ungrateful. USC offered him the chance to return home to a better job while doubling his salary in the process. It would have been nice if Kiffin rejected that, but I don't see how you can expect him to.

They're just good at loopholes. They wouldn't call UT commits unless the commit called them first. Ambles probably did. Maybe not Copeland, but I don't see that as a ridiculously huge deal the way you apparently do. I fully expected him to go after our commits that were worthy of playing at USC. Coaches lie. It happens...
 
#684
#684
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.
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He needs to win the SEC in the next 5 years if he plans to be here after that.

The fans aren't going to be content with finishing 2nd or 3rd in the SEC East. Otherwise UT would have kept Fulmer.

It's a little difficult to believe he can win a title after struggling at La Tech, but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point. Good luck to him :eek:k:
 
#685
#685
oklavol said:
He needs to win the SEC in the next 5 years if he plans to be here after that.

The fans aren't going to be content with finishing 2nd or 3rd in the SEC East. Otherwise UT would have kept Fulmer.

It's a little difficult to believe he can win a title after struggling at La Tech, but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point. Good luck to him :eek:k:
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I would agree with this. The best any UT fan can do now is hold their nose and hope.
 
#686
#686
sjt18 said:
That's an exaggeration tactic called "poisoning the well".

Let me be totally clear. People leave jobs for better opportunities all of the time for a variety of reasons. EVERYONE who leaves ANY job is dissatisfied about something. Seldom if EVER is it only about money or even title.

I'm NOT surprised that Kiffin left. I called him a mercenary when he was hired. Someone here told me right quick that they didn't care if he'd hang around 3-5 years and win a championship.

It isn't that Kiffin left... it is the completely and totally classless, ungrateful, and unethical way that he did it.

No one wanted him when UT hired him. He was damaged goods. Yet UT not only hired him but gave him an incredible level of support and tolerated many things he did.

He talked a grand "game" about championships, loyalty, discipline, challenges, the greatness of UT, his gratitude for the opportunity, etc.

With all that, I'd still have no problem if he'd left after 2-4 years for USC or anywhere else. For that matter, I wouldn't have really had a problem if he'd left in November so long as he'd kept his promise not to do anything to undermine UT or its recruiting efforts.

How you as a supposed UT fan can still sit there and rationalize and make excuses for the guy after what they did AFTER leaving is beyond me. Even if you're OK with the fact he was so disloyal and ungrateful that he left after only a year... I can't believe that you so easily forgive the fact that he did thing specifically to hurt UT and broke his word after leaving.
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If we offer Tee Martin double his salary and our OC position in December, is he "ungrateful" or "disloyal" to Kentucky for leaving after a year? That's funny.
 
#687
#687
If Dooley is gone in two years, which he won't be, then we have no chance at getting a proven coach in here then.
 
#689
#689
VKAman said:
Assuming it isn't two weeks before signing day, this isn't true at all...
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A weak argument.

USC was able to get the coach they wanted just before signing day... If any AD in a football conference goes to bed each night without a list of possible coaching replacements, then he needs to be replaced. The AD, that is...
 
#690
#690
3L with debt said:
A weak argument.

USC was able to get the coach they wanted just before signing day... If any AD in a football conference goes to bed each night without a list of possible coaching replacements, then he needs to be replaced. The AD, that is...
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So you agree with him that we wouldn't be able to get a proven coach two years from now? No? Then it's not a weak argument...

Every AD has one. That doesn't mean those "replacements" would leave their jobs for Tennessee if it's two weeks before signing day...Tennessee fans of all people should know that by now...
 
#691
#691
VKAman said:
So you agree with him that we wouldn't be able to get a proven coach two years from now? No? Then it's not a weak argument...

Every AD has one. That doesn't mean those "replacements" would leave their jobs for Tennessee if it's two weeks before signing day...Tennessee fans of all people should know that by now...
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Paragraph 1: I have no dog in that fight.

Paragraph 2: It would have been nice if MH had a list. He was caught flat footed and looked completely inept. The timing was bad and a horrible occurrence. The tragedy surpassed only by MH's bad hire.

I don't give a rip about signing day when we are discussing who should run the program. This rush hire was simply to save a class that ranked no better than 5th in the SEC. Well, that's freaking grand.

Please understand that I mean no personal disrespect to you but I am just freaking tired of watching the buffoons in charge send this thing down the crapper. This is the only place I can vent. Again, no disrespect to you.
 
#692
#692
3L with debt said:
Paragraph 1: I have no dog in that fight.

Paragraph 2: It would have been nice if MH had a list. He was caught flat footed and looked completely inept. The timing was bad and a horrible occurrence. The tragedy surpassed only by MH's bad hire.

I don't give a rip about signing day when we are discussing who should run the program. This rush hire was simply to save a class that ranked no better than 5th in the SEC. Well, that's freaking grand.

Please understand that I mean no personal disrespect to you but I am just freaking tired of watching the buffoons in charge send this thing down the crapper. This is the only place I can vent. Again, no disrespect to you.
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MH has a list.

Otherwise, most of that is what I was saying. If Dooley is gone in two years, we likely won't have to make a rush hire, so it won't be impossible to get a proven coach in here. The "As long as it's not two weeks before signing day" caveat was put in there because it's part of the reason why we didn't have many options for proven coaches this time around.
 
#693
#693
3L with debt said:
A weak argument.

USC was able to get the coach they wanted just before signing day... If any AD in a football conference goes to bed each night without a list of possible coaching replacements, then he needs to be replaced. The AD, that is...
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Kiffin wasn't the guy USC wanted. Kiffin was the guy they knew wouldn't say no.

We learned from Clay Travis's book last year that Hamilton keeps a constantly updated, rotating list of coaching replacements. The problem is that there aren't any guys on it who won't say no to Tennessee.
 
#694
#694
VKAman said:
MH has a list.

Otherwise, most of that is what I was saying. If Dooley is gone in two years, we likely won't have to make a rush hire, so it won't be impossible to get a proven coach in here. The "As long as it's not two weeks before signing day" caveat was put in there because it's part of the reason why we didn't have many options for proven coaches this time around.
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So, this is my frustration. Two years will be wasted if CDD is a bust, all in an effort to save the SEC's 5th ranked class. If MH had a list of coaches, it was not very impressive. I honestly believe that I could have done better than MH. Seriously.

CDD may not be a bust but all objective evidence would point to the conclusion that it was not a good hire.
 
#695
#695
Ulysees E. McGill said:
If you guys dont think winning 9 games in the SEC is a good year you are delusional. NOBODY has maintained dominance over the SEC here since the General. I want to win championships as much as anybody here. But there is a lot more to being a good coach than just winning championships. If we are winning 9-11 games a year AND COMPETING for the SEC champ every year. I will be happy. We have TWO NCAA titles in over 100 years. If you are only going to be happy with titles. You will never be happy with any coach. NO COACH has done that here. It don't matter how good he is. GO VOLS
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It's a good year, but it's kind of like a cake without icing. Yea, it was good, but it wasn't great.
 
#696
#696
look not CLK is probably the best recruiter out there, but that doesint mean he is going to know what to do with the talent when he gets it. i think we took a hit in our recruiting but we inproved in our coaching
 
#699
#699
3L with debt said:
So, this is my frustration. Two years will be wasted if CDD is a bust, all in an effort to save the SEC's 5th ranked class. If MH had a list of coaches, it was not very impressive. I honestly believe that I could have done better than MH. Seriously.

CDD may not be a bust but all objective evidence would point to the conclusion that it was not a good hire.
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If you look back you'll see that I'm certainly no blind Dooley follower either. I was just responding to the situation put forth by the poster.
 
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