What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#701
#701
I got your scenarios loud and clear the first time i read your post... all im saying is why do we even need to speculate the situation when he hasnt even coached a game yet? its just a downer all together. Let dooley do his stuff and you did remark about how he is going to lose games is your original thread.
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#702
#702
3L with debt said:
So, this is my frustration. Two years will be wasted if CDD is a bust, all in an effort to save the SEC's 5th ranked class. If MH had a list of coaches, it was not very impressive. I honestly believe that I could have done better than MH. Seriously.

CDD may not be a bust but all objective evidence would point to the conclusion that it was not a good hire.
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You think Dooley was at the top of Hamilton's list? You think Hamilton wanted to stand up there and introduce a guy with a losing record in the WAC? There's a reason why his name was never rumored until days into the process.

It doesn't matter how good your list is; you have to find someone who will say yes. We got turned down by coaches from Air Force, Texas Christian, and Utah. What does that say about how desirable a situation the Tennessee job is right now?

It has the potential to be very desirable again, yes, but first someody's got to rebuild the roster up from probation-level thinness while going up against Meyer and Saban every year. Hamilon had to go way down and maye even off his list before he found someone who was willing to risk his career on it.
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#703
#703
Its amazing to me that a fan can think they can honestly do the job of the AD better, when they have NO IDEA what goes into not only the day to day stuff, but something as complicated as finding a new HC. Surely you cant be serious 3L. Again, wether this was a "desperation" hire or not is yet to be seen. Noone can tell the future. Why dont "fans" just let the situation play out instead of coming up with the absolute worst case scenario and worrying for no reason?? I like DD's attitude, but I have no idea if he will succeed.....but I also dont know that he will fail.....and i certainly would NEVER wish failure upon him just so he can be fired and we can try to hire a "big name" coach that will make me feel good.
 
#704
#704
BuckeyeVols said:
Its amazing to me that a fan can think they can honestly do the job of the AD better, when they have NO IDEA what goes into not only the day to day stuff, but something as complicated as finding a new HC. Surely you cant be serious 3L. Again, wether this was a "desperation" hire or not is yet to be seen. Noone can tell the future. Why dont "fans" just let the situation play out instead of coming up with the absolute worst case scenario and worrying for no reason?? I like DD's attitude, but I have no idea if he will succeed.....but I also dont know that he will fail.....and i certainly would NEVER wish failure upon him just so he can be fired and we can try to hire a "big name" coach that will make me feel good.
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Desperation has nothing to do with the future...
 
#705
#705
It's a message board. Speculation and debate are the cornerstones of message boards.

I thought the thread presented some very valid arguments from both sides of the aisle.
 
#706
#706
This post was genius. The other "similar" post had me envisioning drunk guys standing closely by to watch a man whack down a hornets nest with a 2 foot stick.

I am rooting for utter domination but with sheer luck and poor officiating. That gaurantees maximum frustration outside of Knoxville.
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#707
#707
Vercingetorix said:
You think Dooley was at the top of Hamilton's list? You think Hamilton wanted to stand up there and introduce a guy with a losing record in the WAC? There's a reason why his name was never rumored until days into the process.

It doesn't matter how good your list is; you have to find someone who will say yes. We got turned down by coaches from Air Force, Texas Christian, and Utah. What does that say about how desirable a situation the Tennessee job is right now?

It has the potential to be very desirable again, yes, but first someody's got to rebuild the roster up from probation-level thinness while going up against Meyer and Saban every year. Hamilon had to go way down and maye even off his list before he found someone who was willing to risk his career on it.
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You are one of my favorite posters so I don't want to get sideways with you but, for the sake of discussion, no, I don't think that CDD was at the top of MH's list. I don't think that MH had a list. He was clueless and put his own future before the program. He had to make a hire and make it fast to save his job and, to a lesser degree, save this recruiting class. It was rushed and by all accounts, a bad hire. I rarely agree with Hat but he is right in this regard. The powers to be should have let MH go with CLK and hired a competent AD and then go get a quality coach. To end up with the 5th best recruiting class in the SEC and a questionable hire, makes me puke in my mouth a little. The focus should have been on getting the right coach (and, yes, that could have happened) then let the rest follow.
 
#708
#708
Ulysees E. McGill said:
If you guys dont think winning 9 games in the SEC is a good year you are delusional. NOBODY has maintained dominance over the SEC here since the General. I want to win championships as much as anybody here. But there is a lot more to being a good coach than just winning championships. If we are winning 9-11 games a year AND COMPETING for the SEC champ every year. I will be happy. We have TWO NCAA titles in over 100 years. If you are only going to be happy with titles. You will never be happy with any coach. NO COACH has done that here. It don't matter how good he is. GO VOLS
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And this jackass tread just keeps on going.... Oh by the way I am not a "blind homer". I just think its monumentally stuuuupid to assume failure at this point. IF...Dooley sucks FIRE him! IF... he does good APPLAUD him.
 
#710
#710
BuckeyeVols said:
Its amazing to me that a fan can think they can honestly do the job of the AD better, when they have NO IDEA what goes into not only the day to day stuff, but something as complicated as finding a new HC. Surely you cant be serious 3L. Again, wether this was a "desperation" hire or not is yet to be seen. Noone can tell the future. Why dont "fans" just let the situation play out instead of coming up with the absolute worst case scenario and worrying for no reason?? I like DD's attitude, but I have no idea if he will succeed.....but I also dont know that he will fail.....and i certainly would NEVER wish failure upon him just so he can be fired and we can try to hire a "big name" coach that will make me feel good.
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you're acting like the AD gig is rocket surgery. It's not. It was formerly a ceremonial gig for retiring coaches. it's now a booster ass kissing gig to raise capital in order to keep up with the Joneses.
 
#711
#711
BuckeyeVols said:
Its amazing to me that a fan can think they can honestly do the job of the AD better, when they have NO IDEA what goes into not only the day to day stuff, but something as complicated as finding a new HC. Surely you cant be serious 3L. Again, wether this was a "desperation" hire or not is yet to be seen. Noone can tell the future. Why dont "fans" just let the situation play out instead of coming up with the absolute worst case scenario and worrying for no reason?? I like DD's attitude, but I have no idea if he will succeed.....but I also dont know that he will fail.....and i certainly would NEVER wish failure upon him just so he can be fired and we can try to hire a "big name" coach that will make me feel good.
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Are you serious?...

I can jack prices, pick the lowest bidder, stroke the powers to be, and make bad hires just as well as MH.
 
#712
#712
BigPapaVol said:
you're acting like the AD gig is rocket surgery. It's not. It was formerly a ceremonial gig for retiring coaches. it's now a booster ass kissing gig to raise capital in order to keep up with the Joneses.
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Exactly!

Good to see you again Papa. It has been too long.
 
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#714
#714
Vercingetorix said:
You think Dooley was at the top of Hamilton's list? You think Hamilton wanted to stand up there and introduce a guy with a losing record in the WAC? There's a reason why his name was never rumored until days into the process.

It doesn't matter how good your list is; you have to find someone who will say yes. We got turned down by coaches from Air Force, Texas Christian, and Utah. What does that say about how desirable a situation the Tennessee job is right now?

It has the potential to be very desirable again, yes, but first someody's got to rebuild the roster up from probation-level thinness while going up against Meyer and Saban every year. Hamilon had to go way down and maye even off his list before he found someone who was willing to risk his career on it.
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There were other coaches available, Leach, Malzahn, etc who would have taken it that he didn't interview.
 
#716
#716
3L with debt said:
. . .CDD may not be a bust but all objective evidence would point to the conclusion that it was not a good hire.
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Really? ALL objective evidence?

There's evidence that he has had an overwhelming calming and settling effect on a program that was about as close to the ledge as I have ever seen it in my 30 years of interest.

There is evidence that he as been extremely well-received by the Vol Nation.

There is evidence that he is a man of high character and strong moral fiber.

There is evidence that he has the highest respect for the traditions of the University and a strong willingness to embrace them.

There is evidence that he is genuinely interested in the development of students who play football at Tennessee.

There is evidence that he takes ownership and the responsibility of his position very seriously and serves well in the community that serves him.

I could go on, but you get the point. Are none of these things good?

The guy hasn't coached a down. . . hasn't even held a practice, but he is absolutely someone that I am proud is associated with my Alma Mader. Kiffin could have gone 100-0 over the next decade and he would still have been a great embarrassment to the University. We got a serious upgrade in my humble opinion, and I would not trade all the things I stated above for a dozen national championships.

That said, I think he is going to bring great success on the field to the program as well, but only time will tell. All "proven" coaches once had to prove themselves. We just have to wait and see.
 
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#717
#717
St.Louie,

Im certain "The U" is really ticked about the way the whole Jimmy Johnson experiment worked out.
 
#718
#718
SaintLouisVol said:
Really? ALL objective evidence?

There's evidence that he has had an overwhelming calming and settling effect on a program that was about as close to the ledge as I have ever seen it in my 30 years of interest.

There is evidence that he as been extremely well-received by the Vol Nation.

There is evidence that he is a man of high character and strong moral fiber.

There is evidence that he has the highest respect for the traditions of the University and a strong willingness to embrace them.

There is evidence that he is genuinely interested in the development of students who play football at Tennessee.

There is evidence that he takes ownership and the responsibility of his position very seriously and serves well in the community that serves him.

I could go on, but you get the point. Are none of these things good?

The guy hasn't coached a down. . . hasn't even held a practice, but he is absolutely someone that I am proud is associated with my Alma Mader. Kiffin could have gone 100-0 over the next decade and he would still have been a great embarrassment to the University. We got a serious upgrade in my humble opinion, and I would not trade all the things I stated above for a dozen national championships.

That said, I think he is going to bring great success on the field to the program as well, but only time will tell. All "proven" coaches once had to prove themselves. We just have to wait and see.
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Hello Mrs. CDD, I'm proud to make your acquaintance.

Your points are largely subjective. I'll stick with quantifiable objective evidence. You know, the type used in a W/L column.

Moreover, I was never a big CLK fan either. You are right on that point, he was an embarrassment from the word go. That is why MH needs to be run out of town.
 
#720
#720
3L with debt said:
. . .Your points are largely subjective. I'll stick with quantifiable objective evidence. You know, the type used in a W/L column. . .
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There is nothing subjective about my points. There is significant evidence through statements made in the media, etc. that support what I wrote. His envolvement while at La Tech is well documented.

The only thing subjective, or better stated a matter of opinion, is what defines the success of a University football program. If it is your opinion that winning is sole measuring stick, then so be it. I value more than that.
 
#721
#721
SaintLouisVol said:
There is nothing subjective about my points. There is significant evidence through statements made in the media, etc. that support what I wrote. His envolvement while at La Tech is well documented.

The only thing subjective, or better stated a matter of opinion, is what defines the success of a University football program. If it is your opinion that winning is sole measuring stick, then so be it. I value more than that.
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Uh... you might want to check that.
 
#722
#722
SaintLouisVol said:
There is nothing subjective about my points. There is significant evidence through statements made in the media, etc. that support what I wrote. His envolvement while at La Tech is well documented.

The only thing subjective, or better stated a matter of opinion, is what defines the success of a University football program. If it is your opinion that winning is sole measuring stick, then so be it. I value more than that.
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Being nice and likeable tells us pretty much nothing about his actual coaching ability. The whole "Kiffin sucks as a coach because I don't like him and Dooley is a good one because I do" crowd will probably be in for a rude awakening...
 
#723
#723
I wont comment on how hard a job is without first hand experience. If you havent been an AD, I am SURE there are thousands of things done that you dont consider. I am not taking up for MH or DD....I dont personally know them. I want CDD to be a huge success of course, but that is at least a fews years from being known. I am the director of engineering for a large fiber optics company. I am sure there are LOTS of people who "think" my job is easy or they could it do it......but for most that isnt the case. I just think its a little ignorant to think you can be a better AD, or that you know EXACTLY what all the job entails.
 
#725
#725
SaintLouisVol said:
If it is your opinion that winning is sole measuring stick, then so be it. I value more than that.
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It is my opinion that winning is the measuring stick that SEC coaches should be judged, so long as it is done by being both legal and ethical. Everything else is just hoopla.
 
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