What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#101
#101
I can see what the OP is saying, and it's a legit question.

I think this staff recruits well enough to where even if we have 3 straight sub-par seasons, we'll still have a pretty solid team and our weaknesses would be filled. The worst case scenario for this program would be for Dooley to do "average" where he wins about 7-9 games a year and never really gets us to the next tier. It wouldn't be good, but it wouldn't be bad either which means Hamilton would likely keep him. In that case, I would take 3 terrible seasons over 3 average seasons just get this staff out of here and get a better staff in.
 
#102
#102
VKAman said:
We had a shot at Stoops but likely weren't going to get him. If there weren't any available, though, why not just keep Kippy Brown around, have an easier way out (I think utmba said something almost exactly like this), and hire a championship-caliber coach next offseason--when it's not two weeks before Signing Day?
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Stoops didn't want the ND job so I doubt strongly that he would have taken the UT job on short notice. I agree about the Kippy Brown idea though. I think he at least could have held the fort down.
 
#103
#103
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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Unfortunately, it's the latter. 2 awful years followed by a quick firing and the hiring of a good coach is better than 7 years of mediocrity. Maybe there's another option (like Dooley defies history and logic to become a championship coach in the SEC while he couldn't even hack it in the WAC), but I have trouble seeing it.
 
#104
#104
ETV said:
Hamilton is attempting to recreate what he did with hire of Bruce Pearl. If MH is correct, this hire should prove to be worth the risk within 3 to 5 years.
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This is what irks me most about Hamilton. UT's football program should not been used as a potential stepping stone to better pay/better job for the AD.

This was a case that begged hiring a proven coach and paying what it costs to do so. Or, worst case, sticking with the alternative he had in hand, for a short-term potential fix (Kippy).

The risk should not have been taken at this stage. He did that with Kiffin far better, but he was far more deliberate in that choice. This was a 3-day hire. It's hard to find a cook at McDonalds that quickly.
 
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#105
#105
utmba93 said:
I can't see why Rogers and Hunter wouldn't have signed with Kippy. He fits them better than does CDD as a coach. Stone... was rumored a silent to CLK for a good deal of the recruiting season.
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Not sure if Stone was a silent, but people in the know were saying it would be between Tennessee and Alabama. Then he comes out and says that he didn't like Kiffin. So Tennessee was in his final two, with the national champions, maybe despite its head coach. That tells me that he's likely a Tennessee fan, or someone who really wants to come here, and would have done so as long as we hired a coach that was at least a decent salesman. I don't think Dooley was the only potential Tennessee coach that could have gotten him, by any stretch...
 
#106
#106
VKAman said:
We had a shot at Stoops but likely weren't going to get him. If there weren't any available, though, why not just keep Kippy Brown around, have an easier way out (I think utmba said something almost exactly like this), and hire a championship-caliber coach next offseason--when it's not two weeks before Signing Day?
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You think Kippy would have signed on for a one year deal? Really?? What would you do after that one year and a championship calibre coach was still not available? Sign him to another one year deal? That would kill the football program b/c recruits would not know who their coach is or might be...
 
#107
#107
Hamilton said he was not out to hire an interim coach. He wanted the coach for the future of UT football. He thinks he found that person in Dooley. He was extremely impressed with him during the last search. The best for UT is for Dooley to win. You never know what happens when a team loses and a coach gets fired. Usually there is a lot of attrition and a very poor recruiting year.

Why can't Dooley win the SEC East (if not the SEC)? Who was Nick Saban before he landed the job at LSU or Urban Meyer before Florida? Saban had one good year at Mich St. after three seasons where he never won more than 7 games. Urban won some games, but again it was in the Mountain West & the MAC.

What I'm saying is, you don't have to hire a big name coach to win SEC & national championships. Sometimes you just have to find that diamond in the rough. And that's exactly what Hamilton thinks he found in Dooley.
 
#108
#108
Give the man a chance! I have read that we need to be realistic, but then some of you spell doom for CDD before he even gets a chance. I think realistically that CDD is going to bring it home!

1. While at LA. TECH he was the AD too...... therefore he not only ran the football program but all of them....... this also takes time from the football side of things.

2. He has been around winners and been a winner pretty much his whole career and life (CVD & CNS)

3. He has drive and desire. We have seen that with Stone, Rogers, and others.

4. He has the pride and integrity to not only "Give his all for Tennessee," but also to not embarrass her.

One of you said u'd also like to win the lottery,just didn't buy a lottery ticket........ well take this as you will but Tennessee got its lottery ticket. Whether its the winner or not we know now we aren't playing with the same old numbers, or a "bootleg" ticket...... if u get what i'm saying!

GO BIG ORANGE!!!!!!!!!
 
#109
#109
jrwvol said:
You think Kippy would have signed on for a one year deal? Really?? What would you do after that one year and a championship calibre coach was still not available? Sign him to another one year deal? That would kill the football program b/c recruits would not know who their coach is or might be...
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Yea. I don't think he's ever been a head coach before, so it'd be a good opportunity for him to prove himself.
 
#110
#110
The guy that just left was already where Dooley will aspire to be come year 3 of his contract.
 
#111
#111
SGMVols said:
Stoops didn't want the ND job so I doubt strongly that he would have taken the UT job on short notice. I agree about the Kippy Brown idea though. I think he at least could have held the fort down.
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We talked to him and he wouldn't have. But by December, it wouldn't be short notice anymore...now we're stuck though
 
#112
#112
jrwvol said:
You think Kippy would have signed on for a one year deal? Really?? What would you do after that one year and a championship calibre coach was still not available? Sign him to another one year deal? That would kill the football program b/c recruits would not know who their coach is or might be...
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Kippy would have because he's never been so much as a coordinator before.

We would hire the best guy available. It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that our options in December would be much better than our options a month ago.
 
#113
#113
ETV said:
Hamilton is attempting to recreate what he did with hire of Bruce Pearl. If MH is correct, this hire should prove to be worth the risk within 3 to 5 years.

There is information that not all of the fan base is privy to so let's give Dooley an opportunity to coach his first game before we speculate on his possible coaching record for the next 2 to 3 years.
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You mean when he hired the hottest mid-major coach in the country? A guy coming off a sweet 16 season with Wisconsin Milwaukee? Yeah, that hire took alot of research. Come on.
 
#114
#114
nickknx865 said:
Yea. I don't think he's ever been a head coach before, so it'd be a good opportunity for him to prove himself.
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But we'd basically have to put recruiting on hold for 12 months and based on our depth at certain positions already, that would be a bad idea.
 
#115
#115
utmba93 said:
That UT would have to go ahead and pay for a proven coach if Dooley loses is ad certain as why we should have paid for a proven coach when Kiffin left. It's just a delay in understanding that reality.

This is very much like Bama fans failing to pay what it takes to having a winning program. They had to lose enough games before they were willing to pay Saban. After this hiring decision, I suspect the same is true for UT.

But, of course, I hope he wins. I also hope I win the lottery, but I haven't even bought a ticket.
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Okay, I do agree with you that UT is being cheap when hiring a head coach but if losing Kiffin after 1 year wasn't enough of a kick in the pants to make them change their ways I'm not sure that 2 years of losing with Dooley will make a difference.

I've interpreted UT being cheap to being the result of Fulmer's buyout more than anything so maybe if he's off the books in 3 years they'll come around but that may not be all it is. Unless the AD is bleeding money though I wouldn't look for a $4M a year coach just b/c they fire Dooley. Interestingly, you point out Bama. It took them 15 years (and I don't know how many coaches) to figure this out so I woudn't expect UT to be a lot quicker on the uptake. The best way to increase the coaches' salary is for one of their reach coaches like Dooley to be wildly successful and force a contract renegotiation that gives him market value for a successful coach.
 
#118
#118
VKAman said:
We talked to him and he wouldn't have. But by December, it wouldn't be short notice anymore...now we're stuck though
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I don't think he takes the UT job in any scenario other than one in which OU fires him. His name seems to come up every time a big job opens up, but it never comes to fruition. The only school I can think of that he might leave OU for without being fired first is Florida.
 
#119
#119
triadvolfan said:
Okay, I do agree with you that UT is being cheap when hiring a head coach but if losing Kiffin after 1 year wasn't enough of a kick in the pants to make them change their ways I'm not sure that 2 years of losing with Dooley will make a difference.

I've interpreted UT being cheap to being the result of Fulmer's buyout more than anything so maybe if he's off the books in 3 years they'll come around but that may not be all it is. Unless the AD is bleeding money though I wouldn't look for a $4M a year coach just b/c they fire Dooley. Interestingly, you point out Bama. It took them 15 years (and I don't know how many coaches) to figure this out so I woudn't expect UT to be a lot quicker on the uptake. The best way to increase the coaches' salary is for one of their reach coaches like Dooley to be wildly successful and force a contract renegotiation that gives him market value for a successful coach.
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There were rumors (not sure how true) that we were throwing around numbers like $6M to some big names...could be a complete lie, like I said, but we were talking to Stoops so we had to be offering him at least $4-4.5 mil...
 
#120
#120
Sounds like some people are still under the spell of the Snake Oil salesmen that were previously employed by UT.

You can "what if" everything to death. Have at it!!

I for one dont worry about things that I cant control and Wins and Loses are two of those.

Regardless, I will always be a UT fan. If you expect them to win every game, then you are being unrealistic and might as well continue your undeafeated Dynasty on NCAA 2010 and stop watching real football.

Life is not going to always go your way. The problem is a lot of you grew up when Tennessee was really good and dont remember the lean years.

Every program has its ups and downs and its our turn. Florida and Bama will be next. They will not always be on top. See Notre Dame for proof.

Losing makes winning feel even better!!

GBO
 
#121
#121
The real question is: will he be able to recruit a top 10 class from scratch? Kiffin recruited this class, Dooley just signed them.

And before anyone mentions the recruiting under Saban, we have no way to know if Dooley was behind those classes, or if they were a product of a good coach and a team likely to win.
 
#122
#122
jlovevols said:
Hamilton said he was not out to hire an interim coach. He wanted the coach for the future of UT football. He thinks he found that person in Dooley. He was extremely impressed with him during the last search. The best for UT is for Dooley to win. You never know what happens when a team loses and a coach gets fired. Usually there is a lot of attrition and a very poor recruiting year.

Why can't Dooley win the SEC East (if not the SEC)? Who was Nick Saban before he landed the job at LSU or Urban Meyer before Florida? Saban had one good year at Mich St. after three seasons where he never won more than 7 games. Urban won some games, but again it was in the Mountain West & the MAC.

What I'm saying is, you don't have to hire a big name coach to win SEC & national championships. Sometimes you just have to find that diamond in the rough. And that's exactly what Hamilton thinks he found in Dooley.
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Seriously? Comparing Dooley's record to either Saban's or Meyer's before they were hired is just not sensible.
 
#123
#123
nickknx865 said:
Yea. I don't think he's ever been a head coach before, so it'd be a good opportunity for him to prove himself.
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At first glance, I though Kippy could have been given a trial run, bu in the end he would have been nothing more than interim coach, UT is not going to be good next year, regardless of the coach.

Hamilton would have been looking for a replacement from day 1.
 
#124
#124
GahLee said:
At first glance, I though Kippy could have been given a trial run, bu in the end he would have been nothing more than interim coach, UT is not going to be good next year, regardless of the coach.

Hamilton would have been looking for a replacement from day 1.
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And, why would that be a bad thing?

That way, Kippy either proves himself and retains the job or Hamilton has an entire year to find a suitable long-term replacement.
 
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