What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#776
#776
I posted something and then regretted it, so...Go Vols! Good luck Coach Dooley! I hope you retire from Tennessee as the dean of SEC coaches.
 
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#777
#777
Jewbaccah said:
Ok Ok, I will throw my hat in this endless speculation. I choose to try to be postive. Dooley will do as well as his coordinators perform or are allowed to perform. Does he have A rated coordinators? Offense for sure. Defense is a maybe. Will he let them have free rain? We have no idea. He is a micromanager from the rep I have heard. On the other hand he seems very humble. We can only hope he lets Chaney be Chaney.

UTmba93---Why so gloom? You can choose to be more optimistic? You and I both know we don't know. You might as well hold on to your mojo until facts are facts. At that point I will cry in my soup with you.
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Jewbaccah, I thought I was finally being optimistic with my last post. I've done better today than yesterday.

I'll drink more KoolAid as we get reports of players responding positively, a decent spring game showing, and so on.

The Kiffin timing also forced a lot of us to hold this crap until after NSD (in the interest of the program). So, that probably made the gloom worse than getting a chance to vent more earlier.

There are some good players wearing orange and white this fall and the nucleus that CLK left is a strong one. I hope they get their chance to vent and can give Dooley their all. We need them to play as hard for him and they did for Kiffin. I hope they don't feel too burned by the turn of events and can do that.

If Dooley can give me a little to work with, on the field, everyone here knows I can drink Kool-Aid with the best of them.
 
#778
#778
utmba93 said:
Recruiting is the best argument for Dooley and is likely his strongest card. He should do well in Georgia and Virgina, especially. He may restock the team and that is needed.
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Judging from his classes at La Tech, he has some solid relationships in Texas and La as well. That could be golden.

Viewing him as our Zook before Meyer guy is about as far as I can go with expectations based on his record.
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I agree his record is a concern but I don't think it is any more realistic to go on that alone to judge him as a coach as it is to ignore it like others do. CON- his record isn't good as a HC and several of those losses were to run of the mill WAC teams.

PRO- He coached a NC with Saban at LSU, took La Tech to a bowl for the first time since Bobby Bouche was in diapers, and he played some much more talented teams as well as anyone.

It is difficult to say that his player quality was what enabled him to do that.

Also, nobody takes it seriously, but I've said a few times that he could make a good AD.
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The problem is that he won't be offered the AD position if he fails as a coach.
Ironically, he's done a better job at hiring coaches than Hamilton did.
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I think his success will be much more a reflection of his leadership of the staff than his personal skill at any one aspect of the game.

Kiffin was a very good OC but from the sounds of it was basically a bully as HC. I don't see Dooley doing it that way regardless of whether he succeeds or fails.

I just don't think he can coach. So, I hope we don't take forever trying to figure that out.
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I don't know if he can. The record witnesses against him but testimonies and the competitiveness of his teams against high levels of competition suggest his record over just a short span isn't an accurate reflection of his talent. We'll see.

However I completely agree that if he can't get it done this experiment should be cut off quick and clean. IMO, Hamilton should go at the same time.

Some of his assistants may develop over the next few years. We're going to struggle in 2010 and 2011. His third year is an unknown.
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UT has put together two top 10 classes in successive years for the first time in at least 8 years... Rivals doesn't show rankings prior to 2002. If UT doesn't make significant strides in 2011 then 2012 should definitely be a make or break year.

By then, he could get the program in better shape and make it more attractive. The Vols need to show some promise this fall for him to pull off the recruiting feat that lies ahead. It's going to be touch and go for a while, imo.
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If he can manage the third top 10 class in as many years then UT will have (on paper) the most talented roster it has had in at least 10 years. That will either make Dooley successful or the UT job a very attractive one.
 
#779
#779
I pretty much agree with all of this sjt, especially your concluding remarks on this 2011 recruiting class.

It will be huge for Dooley and the Vols success.
 
#780
#780
jobiwan said:
Name recognition doesn't mean anything. Did anyone know who Jim Tressel (Youngstown State) was? Did anyone know who Frank Beamer (Murray State) was? Did anyone really know who Urban Meyer (1 National win at Utah) was? No

Coaches are picked to be the best fit at their school. Hamilton thought Dooley was the best available fit for Tennessee, and so far I think he's right.
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Sure,....... either that or he couldnt get the guy from Air Force to come down. However you want to spin it.
 
#781
#781
lateknight said:
I think is the stupidest thread I have seen on here yet. Especially coming from someone who has been here for awhile. This staff hasn't even gotten the kids on the field yet and your already saying we'll never be more than mediocre. Sad...
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Some of you have read this thread completely wrong. I don't think the OP is saying "would you rather UT lose and then get a new head coach" but "which do you think would get UT to the top faster?"

It's a legitimate question and not biased against our team at all. I don't think anyone wants our team to lose. This guy is just asking which would get our team to the top faster. Y'all have got to start reading into things better! haha. However personally I'll take the choice that wasn't listed - Dooley turns out to be an excellent coach and wins a lot more than he loses and we get back on top with him. That's the best case scenario and what I pray happens.
 
#783
#783
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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What circles are you referring to? Weed sharing circles?
 
#784
#784
utfantilidie said:
What circles are you referring to? Weed sharing circles?
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Two intelligent posts followed by this one... trying to somehow turn this into a thread about 'weed sharing circles'. Amazing insight.


BigRed is spot on with the intent of the thread.

As for simply asking if he will succeed, it seems that too is a relative question.

One could argue that getting the contract he has is successful. 2.5M/year to coach the Vols is not that shabby. Still, I'm sure there are ways to ask similar questions in different ways.
 
#785
#785
utmba93 said:
Two intelligent posts followed by this one... trying to somehow turn this into a thread about 'weed sharing circles'. Amazing insight.


BigRed is spot on with the intent of the thread.

As for simply asking if he will succeed, it seems that too is a relative question.

One could argue that getting the contract he has is successful. 2.5M/year to coach the Vols is not that shabby. Still, I'm sure there are ways to ask similar questions in different ways.
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right a $2.1MM dollar raise and no AD duties
 
#786
#786
oregonvol said:
Unfortunately, it's the latter. 2 awful years followed by a quick firing and the hiring of a good coach is better than 7 years of mediocrity. Maybe there's another option (like Dooley defies history and logic to become a championship coach in the SEC while he couldn't even hack it in the WAC), but I have trouble seeing it.
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While I'm with you on this, the two things he's got that he didn't have at Tech are Chaney and Wilcox. If he gives them free reign all may yet be well. (And having an actual special teams coach puts him a notch up on Fulmer in that respect.)
 
#787
#787
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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My personal feeling is that proven coaches are overrated. Before Nick Saban became Nick Saban, he spent 6 years at Michigan State and compiled a record during that time of 34-24-1 (I looked it up). His last year at Michigan State was his only "great" year posting a 9-2 record and earning the Spartans a Citrus Bowl Berth. LSU liked him and brought him to Baton Rouge and the rest is history. I would like to believe that we have hired the next "Nick Saban". Now, maybe Coach Dooley will be the next "Nick Saban" or maybe he will be a bust, but he deserves a chance to prove his mettle on the field and over the next few years.
 
#788
#788
utmba93 said:
Won't happen. I'll be here when Dooley is gone.
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Did you get that MBA through the mail order program? Seriously, go back and read your questions. Is UT better off to (a) win or (b) lose? I only have engineering and law degrees, but to a simnpleton like myself, I think "a" is the correct answer.
 
#789
#789
Here's what I don't understand: How are the same people that keep saying Dooley couldn't win in the WAC despite injuries willing to give Kiffin a pass on a 7-6 season with a couple of embarrasing blowout losses a pass due to injuries?
 
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#790
#790
Dr Dread said:
Here's what I don't understand: How are the same people that keep saying Dooley couldn't win in the WAC despite injuries willing to give Kiffin a pass on a 7-6 season with a couple of embarrasing blowout losses a pass due to injuries?
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good question
 
#791
#791
Dr Dread said:
Here's what I don't understand: How are the same people that keep saying Dooley couldn't win in the WAC despite injuries willing to give Kiffin a pass on a 7-6 season with a couple of embarrasing blowout losses a pass due to injuries?
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I, too, am searching for the answer. I'd probably say because Kiffin was doing such a good job recruiting, we were willing to let his recruits grow into big contributors.
 
#792
#792
Dr Dread said:
Here's what I don't understand: How are the same people that keep saying Dooley couldn't win in the WAC despite injuries willing to give Kiffin a pass on a 7-6 season with a couple of embarrasing blowout losses a pass due to injuries?
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be careful tossing logic around.
 
#793
#793
EZE said:
Did you get that MBA through the mail order program? Seriously, go back and read your questions. Is UT better off to (a) win or (b) lose? I only have engineering and law degrees, but to a simnpleton like myself, I think "a" is the correct answer.
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The correct spelling is simpleton. In the future, try not to posture yourself as intelligent without using a spell checker.

If this question...
Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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and your question above,
mean the same thing to you, I'd refrain from asking anyone about their educational qualifications.

The reason being (a) they're likely more educated and (b) you may not have the capacity to comprehend a response.

I don't think the relevant comparison requires anything beyond a 3rd or 4th grade reading level. If you need help, you might find a kid in one of those grades, show them the two questions, and ask if there is a difference. Try not to get defensive when they point out the two questions are quite different.
 
#794
#794
The fact that this thread exists, is one of the reasons that I believe we have one of the worst fan bases in America. Of course it's better if he wins.
 
#795
#795
utmba93 said:
The correct spelling is simpleton. In the future, try not to posture yourself as intelligent without using a spell checker.

If this question...


and your question above,
mean the same thing to you, I'd refrain from asking anyone about their educational qualifications.

The reason being (a) they're likely more educated and (b) you may not have the capacity to comprehend a response.

I don't think the relevant comparison requires anything beyond a 3rd or 4th grade reading level. If you need help, you might find a kid in one of those grades, show them the two questions, and ask if there is a difference. Try not to get defensive when they point out the two questions are quite different.
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Yeah, like I am going to carefully edit my posts on a message board....
 
#799
#799
EZE said:
Yeah, like I am going to carefully edit my posts on a message board....
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Well, I don't have a dog in this fight but if you are going to call someone out on his/her education then you better have your ducks in a row. You made yourself look very foolish.
 
#800
#800
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The fact that this thread exists, is one of the reasons that I believe we have one of the worst fan base[] in America. Of course it's better if he wins.
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I came to that conclusion several years ago. Nevertheless, the number of pages/posts would suggest that the question is valid. It was a bad hire that may work but probably will not.
 
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