Who is the worst/most over rated football coach to win a national championship?

#277
#277
In fact, Miami's power seemed to dwindle once they left the Big East. Hmmm..... :question:

Maybe we've been too hard on Coker.
 
#280
#280
VolsFanRJ said:
I am convinced that just because you win a national championship it doesn't mean you are a great coach. You obviously have a lot of talent on your team, but I think a lot of times luck is a huge factor. I can't think of every coach who has won a NC, but just off the top of my head, here is probably my top 3. This should bring out all the Fulmerites.

1. Les Miles
2. Phil Fulmer
3. Larry Coker

Who do you all think?
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First, I think you must be about 20 years old or younger. All of the national champions in the modern era since '92 are legit. The truly dubious titles are owed to the era when a team could go all season and not face a top-10 opponent until their bowl game.

Weakest National Title Winners
1. BYU '84. Lavell Edwards. Only wins were against teams that finished the season unranked.
2. Pitt '76. Johnny Majors. Managed to play only one top-10 opponent all season (in the bowl game), with most of their opponents having losing records.
3. Georgia Tech '90. Bobby Ross. 1 win over a top-10 opponent.
 
#281
#281
It's not accident that Fulmer went 45-5 over a span in the 90's. Granted most of those losses were to Florida, but still I wouldn't call him lucky. Hell he should have won at least one more in 2001 so I wouldn't say he's on this list at all IMO.
 
#284
#284
VolFan32 said:
It's not accident that Fulmer went 45-5 over a span in the 90's. Granted most of those losses were to Florida, but still I wouldn't call him lucky. Hell he should have won at least one more in 2001 so I wouldn't say he's on this list at all IMO.
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You must have missed the other debate going on in here. It would have been a major upset had we beat Miami in '01.
 
#285
#285
LWSVOL said:
beating Fulmer is not what makes him a great coach. My comments have nothing to do with Fulmer. Still think they both have under achieved with the talent they had on hand... Carroll has had far and away the most talent in the country since 2002...

BCS 4 & 5 Star Breakdowns
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Carroll was an elite recruiter, to which he deserves real credit. His on-field, week-to-week coaching, though, was Zook-ish.

Not only far and away the best talent (though I would date that to since 2004, because LSU had freakish talent from 2001 to 2004), but also the easiest path to a national title -- no conference title game, a conference with no other elite program, and the principal rivals (Notre Dame & UCLA) down that era. It was manna from heaven for any coach not named Carroll.
 
#287
#287
VegasVol said:
Carroll was an elite recruiter, to which he deserves real credit. His on-field, week-to-week coaching, though, was Zook-ish.

Not only far and away the best talent (though I would date that to since 2004, because LSU had freakish talent from 2001 to 2004), but also the easiest path to a national title -- no conference title game, a conference with no other elite program, and the principal rivals (Notre Dame & UCLA) down that era. It was manna from heaven for any coach not named Carroll.
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You can't be serious about this. Ask all the big name teams he's murdered over the years what you think of his coaching. He's been one of the best.
 
#288
#288
Dudleys87 said:
Talent wise he probably should have had more..
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Except the only year we had the most talent in the country, or even the conference, was 1998, the year we won. Our mid-90's teams were filled with mostly NFL busts at the offensive skill positions, with Manning making a lot of people look a lot more talented than they were. Defensively we were in about the same boat as a half-dozen teams, talent-wise.
 
#289
#289
VegasVol said:
Except the only year we had the most talent in the country, or even the conference, was 1998, the year we won. Our mid-90's teams were filled with mostly NFL busts at the offensive skill positions, with Manning making a lot of people look a lot more talented than they were. Defensively we were in about the same boat as a half-dozen teams, talent-wise.
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And Florida's wasn't?

Replace Manning with Spurrier and you see why people are so hard on your boy Fulmer.
 
#291
#291
justingroves said:
Les Miles lost to UK.

LaVell Edwards won the Holiday Bowl.


I'd say they're 1a and 1b
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As far as deserving, you're probably right, but I have no idea how Edwards was. Seems like another mid major guy that happened to get really lucky with the polls.

However, at least if Miles gets fired, the team would be salvaged pretty quickly by a decent coach. Larry Coker ran the best team in the nation into the ground faster than Bill Battle.
 
#292
#292
tvolsfan said:
As far as deserving, you're probably right, but I have no idea how Edwards was. Seems like another mid major guy that happened to get really lucky with the polls.

However, at least if Miles gets fired, the team would be salvaged pretty quickly by a decent coach. Larry Coker ran the best team in the nation into the ground faster than Bill Battle.
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Edwards was a good offensive mind that played no one.

You're right about LSU.
 
#293
#293
Vol423 said:
Sorry, but Fulmer had superior talent to Spurrier's Florida teams throughout the majority of the 90's, and Spurrier beat the crap out of Fulmer on a regular basis.
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That's just false -- another of the kiddie myths. Florida's skill position players, especially at WR, were real NFL talents; ours were mostly quick busts, especially at WR. Defensively, the talent was about even. In terms of depth, we usually had 4 or fewer NFL players than Florida on the roster, and rarely had 4 or more NFL players on the roster. Take a glimpse at those mid-90's Florida rosters:

Florida
QB
Wuerffel (Heisman winner; multi-year NFL career)
Johnson (multi-year NFL career; NFL starts)
Palmer (multi-year NFL career; NFL starts)

WR
Ike Hilliard (long time NFL starter)
Riedel Anthony (multi-year NFL starter)
Jacquez Green (multi-year NFL starter)
Travis McGriff (multi-year NFL career)

RB
Fred Taylor (long-time Pro Bowler)
Terry Jackson (multi-year NFL career)

TE
Erron Kinney (multi-year NFL starter)

Tennessee
QB
Heath Shuler (NFL bust)
Peyton Manning (NFL Pro Bowl)

RB
James Stewart (multi-year NFL career)
Jay Graham (multi-year NFL career)
Mark Levine (never made it)

WR
Nilo Silvan (NFL bust)
Billy Williams (NFL bust)
Joey Kent (NFL bust)
Marcus Nash (NFL bust)

Multi-Year NFL Defensive Starters
Florida (93-96)
DT Kevin Carter
DT Ellis Johnson
LB Mike Peterson
LB Jevon Kearse
DB Fred Weary

Tennessee (93-96)
DE/LB Little
LB Wilson
DB Jenkins
DB Fair
 
#294
#294
tvolsfan said:
You can't be serious about this. Ask all the big name teams he's murdered over the years what you think of his coaching. He's been one of the best.
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Infatuated with Notre Dame? He's done great against the Big 10 in bowl and regular season games -- that's it. He's played how many SEC teams in bowl games? Would that be 0? When you lose at least once as a 20+ point favorite almost every season, you are not an elite coach.
 
#295
#295
VegasVol said:
That's just false -- another of the kiddie myths. Florida's skill position players, especially at WR, were real NFL talents; ours were mostly quick busts, especially at WR. Defensively, the talent was about even. In terms of depth, we usually had 4 or fewer NFL players than Florida on the roster, and rarely had 4 or more NFL players on the roster. Take a glimpse at those mid-90's Florida rosters:

Florida
QB
Wuerffel (Heisman winner; multi-year NFL career)
Johnson (multi-year NFL career; NFL starts)
Palmer (multi-year NFL career; NFL starts)

WR
Ike Hilliard (long time NFL starter)
Riedel Anthony (multi-year NFL starter)
Jacquez Green (multi-year NFL starter)
Travis McGriff (multi-year NFL career)

RB
Fred Taylor (long-time Pro Bowler)
Terry Jackson (multi-year NFL career)

TE
Erron Kinney (multi-year NFL starter)

Tennessee
QB
Heath Shuler (NFL bust)
Peyton Manning (NFL Pro Bowl)

RB
James Stewart (multi-year NFL career)
Jay Graham (multi-year NFL career)
Mark Levine (never made it)

WR
Nilo Silvan (NFL bust)
Billy Williams (NFL bust)
Joey Kent (NFL bust)
Marcus Nash (NFL bust)

Multi-Year NFL Defensive Starters
Florida (93-96)
DT Kevin Carter
DT Ellis Johnson
LB Mike Peterson
LB Jevon Kearse
DB Fred Weary

Tennessee (93-96)
DE/LB Little
LB Wilson
DB Jenkins
DB Fair
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very amusing. Keep 'em coming.
 
#296
#296
So Shuler is a bust but Wuerffell had a multi year career. The numbers are about as even as you can get.
 
#297
#297
A mediocre Florida guy logs a few seasons in the league, he has a "multi-year career" with "NFL starts" along the way. A UT guy fits the same criteria, and he's conveniently categorized as a "bust."
 
#299
#299
Jaytrain5 said:
A mediocre Florida guy logs a few seasons in the league, he has a "multi-year career" with "NFL starts" along the way. A UT guy fits the same criteria, and he's conveniently categorized as a "bust."
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Hey you got to make them fit your arguement man.

I mean, Jamal Lewis and Cedrick Wilson were freshmen in 1997 but they missed the list.
 
#300
#300
Jaytrain5 said:
A mediocre Florida guy logs a few seasons in the league, he has a "multi-year career" with "NFL starts" along the way. A UT guy fits the same criteria, and he's conveniently categorized as a "bust."
Click to expand...

Doug Johnson and Jesse Palmer had more talent in their pinkies than Heath Shuler had in his entire body.
 
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