Who is the worst/most over rated football coach to win a national championship?

#426
#426
ddean1357 said:
By the way Fulmer is being judged, I guess Spurrier would qualify. I know I posted about Bowden earlier, but I was joking. No way Bowden and Bryant can be on this list.
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Spurrier’s 6 Conference Championships, 1 National Championship, and 8 BCS Bowls Trumps Fulmer's 2 CC, 1 BCSC, and 3 BCS Bowls.
 
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#427
#427
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
Check out their head to head records from their Big 12 days(or Big 2 I should say) then get back to me.
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Yeah, two upsets really make up for the fact that he's driving LSU straight into the dirt, while the other coach continues to win conference titles and play for multiple national titles.
 
#428
#428
TrueOrange said:
Bust is wrong

but he spent his career pretty much as a #2 WR....then when he was moved to #1 WR in Atlanta, he just didn't cut it, he wasn't effective any longer

not bust definitely....course not superstar either
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Yea but not everybody is gonna be a superstar like Peyton Manning.
 
#432
#432
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
Spin it however you like, 2 to 2 is 2 to 2.
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It's not spin. If Miles wants his career to be measured by two victories which didn't even keep OU from the BCS, then let him have at it. Most people will remember him for wrecking LSU, while OU retires with about 12 times as many championships.
 
#433
#433
TrueOrange said:
I'll tell you one thing though about Cutcliffe, he sure knew how to beat UGA like a drum
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Cut is the only reason Fulmer was as successful as he was, IMO. That was Fulmer's boy and he was not the same without him. Cut came back and saved Fulmer's butt once again for a couple of years after the 2005 season, then sure enough Fulmer bombed again in 2008. Cut was the man, Fulmer took the credit.
 
#434
#434
davethevol said:
I'm not the biggest Fulmer supporter, but I can't believe anyone would list him in this category. Yeah, he stunk it up over the past 4-5 years of his career, but when he was in his prime he had a heckuva program going.
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Doesn't matter. I couldn't believe a UT fan actually included him in the original list, although i was sure his name was gonna come up at some point in this thread. I guess it doesn't matter though, a few mediocre years at UT, and forget any credibility you once had. Even if you did bring the school it's only NC of the last 40 years. This is one of the few places in the country where 5-7 means more to the fans than 13-0 or even 11-2 ever did.

I, like you, am not the biggest supporter of Fulmer. But i respect him, and what he did for this program. And no, i don't believe he was overrated, i think back in the 90's, he truly was one one of the best in the business. I just think the game passed him by, thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
#435
#435
VolsFanRJ said:
Cut is the only reason Fulmer was as successful as he was, IMO. That was Fulmer's boy and he was not the same without him. Cut came back and saved Fulmer's butt once again for a couple of years after the 2005 season, then sure enough Fulmer bombed again in 2008. Cut was the man, Fulmer took the credit.
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well I mean back when we were really good, Chavis's defenses were actually pretty good too

(and surprisingly, they were extremely sound the years we had those losing seasons....yeah I'm surprised too)

So i mean it wasnt like Cut was a one man show here, but yeah the team ended up changing pretty hard on the offensive side of the ball when he left for Ole Miss...we probably rather should have tried more to keep him when he left after the 98 season
 
#436
#436
TrueOrange said:
well I mean back when we were really good, Chavis's defenses were actually pretty good too

(and surprisingly, they were extremely sound the years we had those losing seasons....yeah I'm surprised too)

So i mean it wasnt like Cut was a one man show here, but yeah the team ended up changing pretty hard on the offensive side of the ball when he left for Ole Miss...we probably rather should have tried more to keep him when he left after the 98 season
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I agree with you. Chavis also made Fulmer look good. I know it is important to surround yourself with good coaches, but Fulmer seemed to take all the credit. I never really thought Fulmer was a good coach. Nice guy, good recruiter, but sucked at X's and O's. However, I truly believe he thought he was the best coach ever. He was so arrogant and unwilling to change, it cost him his job in the end.
 
#437
#437
orangepridenation said:
....... I just think the game passed him by, thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I see that a lot. What does that mean? Football rules changed and he was unable to learn them? Instead of X’s and O’s, there are now X’s, O’s, and Z’s and he could not learn the Z's? There was a new football innovation, like back when they first started the forward pass, that he was unable to keep up with? What does that mean?!? What is different about the game of Football now as opposed to 1998?

.
 
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#438
#438
VolsFanRJ said:
I agree with you. Chavis also made Fulmer look good. I know it is important to surround yourself with good coaches, but Fulmer seemed to take all the credit. I never really thought Fulmer was a good coach. Nice guy, good recruiter, but sucked at X's and O's. However, I truly believe he thought he was the best coach ever. He was so arrogant and unwilling to change, it cost him his job in the end.
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I don't think he was arrogant; I met the man and helped interview him one summer. He doesn't seem to indicate through anything that he felt he was the best coach ever.

I think more of his problems lie somewhere in between being too loyal to his staff/system and being unable -in the latter years of his career especially- to make major changes when they were needed, if that makes sense

edit: i think I might understand what you were going for there, but I don't think arrogant's the right word/idea you were trying to get across
 
#443
#443
VolDad said:
I see that a lot. What does that mean? Football rules changed and he was unable to learn them? Instead of X’s and O’s, there are now X’s, O’s, and Z’s and he could not learn the Z's? There was a new football innovation, like back when they first started the forward pass, that he was unable to keep up with? What does that mean?!? What is different about the game of Football now as opposed to 1998?

.
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Great post VolDad. I've never understood what that meant. While Fulmer may have things that can be criticized he didn't become an idiot overnight and football didn't change drastically in his final years.
 
#444
#444
VolDad said:
I see that a lot. What does that mean? Football rules changed and he was unable to learn them? Instead of X’s and O’s, there are now X’s, O’s, and Z’s and he could not learn the Z's? There was a new football innovation, like back when they first started the forward pass, that he was unable to keep up with? What does that mean?!? What is different about the game of Football now as opposed to 1998?

.
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I guess it means whatever the hell you want it to mean. In my case, i believe success is very hard to sustain. I believe he lost the best parts of his staff. And it became harder to recruit in his latter years. I DO believe he was washed up, but i also believe that happens to almost every coach out there. I think if they stay in the game long enough it will eventually happen Saban, Meyer, Tressel, and Brown. It happened to Bowden, it happened to Paterno. As i said, success is very hard to sustain. And yes, i believe he was washed up. But do i think he was a bad coach? No. Do I think he was overrated? No. (at least not when he was in his prime). And do i believe he deserves the bashing he gets from Vol fans? No.

Like i said in an earlier post, i wasn't the biggest supporter of Fulmer. I wasn't devastated when he left. And maybe that makes me a hypocrite, i really don't care. But i do respect him, and everything he did for this program. And i do believe he is and should always be a UT legend. Just my opinion.
 
#445
#445
VolsFanRJ said:
I agree with you. Chavis also made Fulmer look good. I know it is important to surround yourself with good coaches, but Fulmer seemed to take all the credit. I never really thought Fulmer was a good coach. Nice guy, good recruiter, but sucked at X's and O's. However, I truly believe he thought he was the best coach ever. He was so arrogant and unwilling to change, it cost him his job in the end.
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Chavis certainly made Fulmer look good but I'm not sure that is a negative thing as your post seems to indicate. Kiffin hires good assistants and we call him a guru. Fulmer has Chavis and we call that a crutch. Also not sure where you are getting that Fulmer seemed to "take all the credit". Fulmer was always very complimentary of Chavis and gave him tons of credit. Why else was Chavis so loyal to the man right to the end? Its a fact that Chavis had NFL opportunities that he turned down in large part because of the program that he and Fulmer were building. Can you give quotes or any kind of facts that indicate he "thought he was the best coach ever"?
 
#446
#446
orangepridenation said:
I guess it means whatever the hell you want it to mean. In my case, i believe success is very hard to sustain. I believe he lost the best parts of his staff. And it became harder to recruit in his latter years. I DO believe he was washed up, but i also believe that happens to almost every coach out there. I think if they stay in the game long enough it will eventually happen Saban, Meyer, Tressel, and Brown. It happened to Bowden, it happened to Paterno. As i said, success is very hard to sustain. And yes, i believe he was washed up. But do i think he was a bad coach? No. Do I think he was overrated? No. (at least not when he was in his prime). And do i believe he deserves the bashing he gets from Vol fans? No.

Like i said in an earlier post, i wasn't the biggest supporter of Fulmer. I wasn't devastated when he left. And maybe that makes me a hypocrite, i really don't care. But i do respect him, and everything he did for this program. And i do believe he is and should always be a UT legend. Just my opinion.
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I think there is a large section of the fan base who feels sort of like this. They think it was probably time for a change but can still give Fulmer the credit he is due for the accomplishments he had. I think most intelligent Vol fans see things somewhat like that.

I wish the very vocal minority on this board would take something from that post. You can want change without hating Fulmer and spewing fat jokes all over the place. You can also call the Kiffin hire what it was, a mistake. What would have happened if he stayed 10 years? Who knows. He doesn't have enough of a resume' for us to even make a reasonable guess. But the fact is he left after 1 year which only set us back more.
 
#447
#447
VolInMusicCity said:
I think there is a large section of the fan base who feels sort of like this. They think it was probably time for a change but can still give Fulmer the credit he is due for the accomplishments he had. I think most intelligent Vol fans see things somewhat like that.

I wish the very vocal minority on this board would take something from that post. You can want change without hating Fulmer and spewing fat jokes all over the place. You can also call the Kiffin hire what it was, a mistake. What would have happened if he stayed 10 years? Who knows. He doesn't have enough of a resume' for us to even make a reasonable guess. But the fact is he left after 1 year which only set us back more.
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:hi:
 
#449
#449
VolInMusicCity said:
I think there is a large section of the fan base who feels sort of like this. They think it was probably time for a change but can still give Fulmer the credit he is due for the accomplishments he had. I think most intelligent Vol fans see things somewhat like that.

I wish the very vocal minority on this board would take something from that post. You can want change without hating Fulmer and spewing fat jokes all over the place. You can also call the Kiffin hire what it was, a mistake. What would have happened if he stayed 10 years? Who knows. He doesn't have enough of a resume' for us to even make a reasonable guess. But the fact is he left after 1 year which only set us back more.
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wow good post. +1 :good!:
 
#450
#450
VolInMusicCity said:
I think there is a large section of the fan base who feels sort of like this. They think it was probably time for a change but can still give Fulmer the credit he is due for the accomplishments he had. I think most intelligent Vol fans see things somewhat like that.

I wish the very vocal minority on this board would take something from that post. You can want change without hating Fulmer and spewing fat jokes all over the place. You can also call the Kiffin hire what it was, a mistake. What would have happened if he stayed 10 years? Who knows. He doesn't have enough of a resume' for us to even make a reasonable guess. But the fact is he left after 1 year which only set us back more.
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Most everyone with a rational thought process will think this is a good post, and I think it is. There will be those that will try and pick it apart though, and then kiss their Lane Kiffin picture after they do.

Great post though.
 
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