Who Wants To Fire Butch?

Who Wants Butch Fired?

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#176
#176
He deserves to have his own recruits on the field before he is fully judged.
About three recruiting seasons will tell the real story.
 
#177
#177
orangeslice13 said:
We should have a good idea by the end of 3. I think year 4 will tell us how good Coach Jones is going to be. That's when his first full class will be juniors.
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This is kind of what I'm thinking. Still, I only stand by this as long as there are signs of real improvement. By that I mean the kind that doesn't require coachspeak to explain.
 
#178
#178
Dragon18 said:
Too early for this too. If you want them gone you are ignoring the issues on this team and in the program. I know people go back to UGA etc... but we need to give these guys the players that can be successful, then we will see. Play calling is bland because we don't have the talent to keep defenses honest. Defensive issues stem from lack of speed and ability. I really don't believe there is a DC in the country that would have done much better with this group. Too many freshman and walk ons. Schemes matter, but football is, and will always be, a game of match ups. if you don't have the players to win those match ups it really won't matter how you scheme it. Give Bajakian and Jancek a chance too. :peace2:
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Actually, I'm taking our situation most into account. Players do matter when it comes to making plays when in position. However, our defense is consistently not even in position to attempt not make a play. The plan against Auburn was quite possibly the worst one I've seen in my life.

Play calling has consistently shown that we are going to always try to fit a squre peg in a round hole. Bajakian has called nothing that has been impressive minus the dive option on the 4th & 1 play against UGA. That was a great call, but I can't say he's ok on a single play. Other than that, some mediocre calls mixed in with a bunch of terrible ones. If he was the guy that thought it was a good idea to get into a passing shoot-out against Oregon and that we should throw the ball 42 times against Mizzou with a true freshman QB in his 2nd start ever against the best pass rush in the conference, he deserves to be ran for those alone. This is not mentioning continuing to trot Smith onto the field who couldn't catch a cold if someone sneezed in his face.

Neither have shown any ability to not magnify our many deficiencies- which there are many. Also, this isn't Jancek's first rodeo. He has a history of failure in the SEC. He & Martinez hold the the distinction of being 2 of the very few coaches (if any others) of being too bad for Mark Richt to keep on his staff. I'm not judging Jancek on this year alone. This year is just more proof that he isn't an SEC level defensive coach.

I do appreciate the tone of our exchange.
 
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#179
#179
Doyle Hargraves said:
This is kind of what I'm thinking. Still, I only stand by this as long as there are signs of real improvement. By that I mean the kind that doesn't require coachspeak to explain.
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I'm thinking next year might be rough. 6 wins at best.
I'm interested to see how recuiting goes next year.
 
#181
#181
i think another losing season next will indicate that the oc and dc are in way to far over their heads and need replacements. butch won't fire his friends he'll be loyal til the end and it may cost him if we don't win some games next season.
 
#182
#182
Doyle Hargraves said:
Serious question.
I see many people lash out at anyone that criticizes anything about this staff by claiming the critic wants Butch fired. Can anyone name the people who have wanted him fired? I mean someone who has actually posted these words? If you can name them and back it up, please post it up, or if you feel that way man up to it and post.
Honestly, outside of obvious trolls, I haven't seen anyone calling for Butch's head.
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One yoar with another coaches players.....THINK

:ermm:
 
#184
#184
My confidence in Butch has been shaken. I am not sure he can/will get it done. But he needs time. Next year we'll be lucky to do much better than this year. If by the end of year three we're having the same discussion, it probably means the experiment was a failure. He'll have some experience in "his" players by then so the excuses will be used up.
 
#185
#185
InVOLuntary said:
My confidence in Butch has been shaken. I am not sure he can/will get it done. But he needs time. Next year we'll be lucky to do much better than this year. If by the end of year three we're having the same discussion, it probably means the experiment was a failure. He'll have some experience in "his" players by then so the excuses will be used up.
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Then what do you do? UT doesn't have enough money to offer a coach to come in here and be the 5th coach in 7 or 8 years. No one is going to want to come here knowing that the fan base is so impatient and fickle. The tradition of Tennessee doesn't matter when it looks like the program is terminally unstable.
 
#186
#186
MG1968 said:
Then what do you do? UT doesn't have enough money to offer a coach to come in here and be the 5th coach in 7 or 8 years. No one is going to want to come here knowing that the fan base is so impatient and fickle. The tradition of Tennessee doesn't matter when it looks like the program is terminally unstable.
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To make the best case out of a worst-case scenario, IF Butch doesn't work out, the first person that needs to go is the AD. After that, we put all of our money together and find a proven coach that runs the same type of offense (since Butch will have the players in place), and hope they can pick up the reigns and start winning. Let's see how Kelly does in Philly...

Regardless, I think Butch will get it done. 6-7 wins next year, 8-10 the year after.
 
#188
#188
BigOrangeLoyalist said:
To make the best case out of a worst-case scenario, IF Butch doesn't work out, the first person that needs to go is the AD. After that, we put all of our money together and find a proven coach that runs the same type of offense (since Butch will have the players in place), and hope they can pick up the reigns and start winning. Let's see how Kelly does in Philly...

Regardless, I think Butch will get it done. 6-7 wins next year, 8-10 the year after.
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The first 3 that should go is Cheek, Hart & Martin regardless what Jones does.
 
#189
#189
As of now, these are my concerns.
1. Will Butch be too loyal to his staff to let anyone go if they fail?
2. Can Butch recruit on the level he has this year without a legacy class to lean on?

Recruiting at a high level is vital for this process to work.

Imagine looking at your best friend and having to tell them they are fired.

I think these are fair concerns at the moment.
 
#190
#190
If Jones does not prove he can coach and win in the SEC ABOVE the talent level of his team then he cannot be kept longer than 3 years or the program will decline more.

UT depends on out of state talent and every class is not going to be filled with talented legacy players. If he hasn't won 9 games by year three then every coach pursuing those same oos recruits will say he's done and can't coach... and they'll have a point. Regardless, it will be believable.

Because of UT's unique recruiting disadvantages, no coach can be kept longer than 3 years and 4 at the absolute max without proving they can compete for the East and SEC.

Firing coaches is no way to build a program. If Coach Jones is fired after season 3 only because he doesn't win 9 games then the Tennessee football program will become irrelevant.

And I doubt Coach Jones wins 9 games in year 3 unless, 1 of the wins is in a bowl game.
 
#191
#191
MG1968 said:
Then what do you do? UT doesn't have enough money to offer a coach to come in here and be the 5th coach in 7 or 8 years. No one is going to want to come here knowing that the fan base is so impatient and fickle. The tradition of Tennessee doesn't matter when it looks like the program is terminally unstable.
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Did you not read my post? I said he needs three years. If he can't improve things in three years the dive in revenue will pale in comparison to any buyout and salary of a new coach. This nonsense about no coach wanted to come here is ridiculous. The reason we couldn't attract a coach is because of what we were willing to pay. When you hire coaches that are relative unknowns, you are gambling. Hopefully sooner or later you hit on one. How long do you think a coach should get before he shows improvement? 5, 6, 10 years?
 
#193
#193
skoalbeans said:
Butch is the stepping stone back to relevance, not excellence. (IMO). Great recruiter and will fill our cubberd with sec talent. However, I feel as if he won't be "the guy" that brings in championships expected. The next guy though.... Watch out for the next guy. Remember how it felt to not land that big name coach? That won't happen next time around if, and only if, the recruits keep coming in and loading us with better talent. Yes, an opinion and being wrong would be fine. I don't care how or when, I just want to get back on top again. Go Vols!!!!
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Money!
 
#195
#195
easleychuck said:
If Jones does not prove he can coach and win in the SEC ABOVE the talent level of his team then he cannot be kept longer than 3 years or the program will decline more.

UT depends on out of state talent and every class is not going to be filled with talented legacy players. If he hasn't won 9 games by year three then every coach pursuing those same oos recruits will say he's done and can't coach... and they'll have a point. Regardless, it will be believable.

Because of UT's unique recruiting disadvantages, no coach can be kept longer than 3 years and 4 at the absolute max without proving they can compete for the East and SEC.

Firing coaches is no way to build a program. If Coach Jones is fired after season 3 only because he doesn't win 9 games then the Tennessee football program will become irrelevant.

And I doubt Coach Jones wins 9 games in year 3 unless, 1 of the wins is in a bowl game.
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You speak of a third year as if it is some type of scientific experiment. There are too many known unknowns and unknown unknowns, not to mention accidents,, injuries, and just flukes in games to make such blanket statements. But, I do believe this statement.
 
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#196
#196
1967vol said:


You speak of a third year as if it is some type of scientific experiment. There are too many known unknowns and unknown unknowns, not to mention accidents,, injuries, and just flukes in games to make such blanket statements. But, I do believe this statement.
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If it was a known unknown wouldn't that make it a known?
 
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#198
#198
govols105 said:
i think another losing season next will indicate that the oc and dc are in way to far over their heads and need replacements. butch won't fire his friends he'll be loyal til the end and it may cost him if we don't win some games next season.
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I don't think we need to see another losing season to prove that
 
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