Why is it taking so long to turn around?

#176
#176
Negateer said:
It's his only judge-able year so far.

His first year he came in during the end of recruiting season, not really fair to judge based on that (although he did a helluva job) and this year's class isnt close to being finished...so...yes.

So far, there is only one year to judge him on recruiting. And in that year, he out-recruited Les Miles following a top-five finish.

Wait, what, you wanted to judge him on the first year, when he didn't even join the team till late in the process?

Or wait, what, you wanted to judge him on this year, when the class isn't even close to being finished?

Well, in my book, that makes you kind of...how to put it kindly...an uninformed fan.
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This is his third class. Oh I forgot, 2nd cause year zero didn't happen. I'm looking long term. And I'll tell you this...if we don't start winning some big games our recruiting will go down. You can be as big a smart ass as you want, but you wait and see. He out recruited Les Myles in one year. Kudos. When he does it year in and year out I'll gladly tip my hat to both him and you. Bottom line, win and our class will jump. Look at LSU's class over a period of time. And if they start losing watch what happens.
 
#177
#177
volberry said:
I don't even blame DD. I just want to know why it takes us 5 years and we're still in the bottom half of the east. I don't get it.
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The last few years of Fulmer recruiting. Rict,Meyer,Saban,Spurrier,(insert name here) was beating us bad. Then those teams win and recruits want to go there. It is not like basketball where you can get 2 or 3 great players and turn it around. Then Kiffin's class was a BUST. They are the seniors now. Every good team in the SEC has senior leadership. We do not. I think Dooley and his coaches are doing a great job recruiting in getting the players we have now. When we do get back on top of the SEC we will be turning players away. You will see.
 
#179
#179
DjCrenshaw said:
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:lolabove:
 
#180
#180
Negateer said:
Sooo....you want to judge him on a class which isn't close to being finished.

OK it's official. You're an uninformed fan.

The NFL is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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uninformed. i believe everybody on the planet has seen enough to know he can't coach. he can't gameplan, he can't recruit on the SEC level, he can barely beat anybody from the SEC, so why is he a coach in the SEC. simple we got screwed by kiffin at the end of recruiting and nobody wanted the job. now is the time to hire a better coach since everybody knows dooley is not going to get it done. i don't know of one person outside of a volfan that thinks he is the answer.
 
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#182
#182
GmanTN said:
The last roster rebuild we went thru took us 5 years, it is difficult to rebuild a roster when the surrounding states that are loaded with talent are staying and playing for their in state schools.
Mullen at Miss St is in his 4th year of coaching and recruiting and they are starting to turn the corner somewhat. The Bama's, Tigers and Gators cannot be compared to UT because we do not have the talent in our state to recruit that these schools have in their back yard.
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Most underappreciated reason as to why UT is having trouble digging out of this hole, no matter who the coach might be.
 
#184
#184
WoodsmanVol said:
1. Fulmer got fat and lazy literally and figuratively.
2. The UT allowed Fulmer to continue as coach despite the obvious evidence he was letting the program slip.
3. Recruiting suffered massively as a result of # 1 & 2.
4. Kiffin was hired with a contract that gave him too much advantage in terms of what he could do.
5. Kiifin's pet gorilla damaged recruiting further by making phone calls to recruits signed on UT's dime and time.
6. Disaffected players advised some desired recruits to not choose Tennessee.
7. The resultant massive hemorrhage discouraged quality coaches from accepting employment offers.
8. The image of the UT suffered greatly so recruits we would have attracted in the past steered clear. This doesn't even mention the NCAA sanctions mess with both football and basketball programs. Which further screwed our image.
9. For any and all faults the impatient Vols fans exhibit, Dooley was the only coach with the balls to come to the UT. And the fact is, Dooley has done a hell of a job as a program doctor. He is gradually stopping the image hemorrhaging, continued stitching up the recruiting wounds, and putting up with asinine, instant gratification, believers in magic, and Jerry Springerist fans who don't appreciate the job he's done and doing.
10. A program that has suffered a massive and long term decline as ours requires time to rebuild.

Now, I personally believe this is the year he has to show us progress by winning against not one but at least two ranked opponents. And 2013 is the year we must contend. Yet despite that the man deserves respect for what he has done given the utter disaster he had the balls to board a sinking ship and bail water with a tea cup.
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I agree with everything you said, except I think your expectations are out of whack, too. Beating Mississippi State is the most we should realisticly expect in 2012. Losses to Bama and South Carolina are coming. Next year we may "contend" for the east, but that depends on how you define "contend". Better not expect us to win the east in 2013 either, regardless of the coach.
 
#185
#185
Negateer said:
He out-recruited Les Miles in his only judge-able season so far.

So you don't think Les Miles can recruit on an SEC level?

Got it.
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wow that is his claim to fame one spot against miles. and then this year miles sits at 4 while doolittle is 20 something getting outrecruited by vandy. dude i laughed till i almost cried. if dooley's teams played like the tigers then i would give him a break, but they play like the kitty cats of UK that beat us last year. hahahahahahahahaha, funny stuff.
 
#186
#186
Negateer said:
Sooo....you want to judge him on a class which isn't close to being finished.

OK it's official. You're an uninformed fan.

The NFL is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Yeah you know it all. Let's just give up, you're the man. I never said anything about judging him on his 3rd class that isn't finished. That's a FACT! You're using that as a pathetic attempt to strengthen your argument. I actually think this could be a good class, but it won't continue if we don't start beating people. That's what I'm saying.

You're trying to convince me that a coach without a winning track record is the man, then trying to down my intelligence while doing so. I've been down this road, I'll call a spade a spade. I've never seen someone with Dooley's track record mysteriously become a great coach.

You see, as a Bears fan I've sat through the mediocre years with the Dave Wandstadts and Dick Jarauns of the world. I cheered for them just like I did Tennessee, but knew deep down when going against the elite we would probably get our teeth kicked in as we did. Check those dudes track records. Mediocre to decent head coaches everywhere they've been. When I look at Dooley I see the same. And that's just how I feel. Been there done that.

I also heard a similar argument amongst the WVU fanbase. Many felt Bill Stewart needed more time because he was changing from a spread to pro style. Many felt they were making a mistake firing him after 3 years when in reality letting him hang around would have seriously set the program back. Especially with them moving to the Big 12. And like Dooley he was a great guy (RIP BILL!) but an average coach. So perhaps I AM an uninformed fan as you say. Or perhaps I've sat through these situations more times than I can count, and I see the same trend with the current situation that I've seen in the past. Time will tell, but history sides with my view on things.

We're both passionate, that's pretty obvious. And you seem to be a pretty intelligent guy from reading yours posts in the past. You have your take and I have mine. The future shall reveal who is uninformed. Until then.....
 
#187
#187
volberry said:
I don't even blame DD. I just want to know why it takes us 5 years and we're still in the bottom half of the east. I don't get it.
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THe answer is really quite simple.

1. The Kiffin season was basically a setback. Very few of his recruits stuck around and he drove off nearly 20 from the roster that he inherited.

2. When Dooley came in, he inherited a roster slim in talent and even slimmer in numbers.

3. Dooley came in with severe recruiting disadvantages. No recruiting base to compare with our main opponents, NCAA investigation hanging over our head (Kiffin issues again), and a team that was not exciting to anyone.

The net results of all of this is evident inour roster - Virtually no senior class. A junior class with solid talent that is driving the train and sophmore and freshman classes that appear to have much better talent in them.

Situations like this take time. You will hear many claim that our rebuild was not any different than anyone elses. They could not be more wrong.
 
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#188
#188
RichRollin said:
Yeah you know it all. Let's just give up, you're the man. I never said anything about judging him on his 3rd class that isn't finished. That's a FACT! You're using that as a pathetic attempt to strengthen your argument. I actually think this could be a good class, but it won't continue if we don't start beating people. That's what I'm saying.

You're trying to convince me that a coach without a winning track record is the man, then trying to down my intelligence while doing so. I've been down this road, I'll call a spade a spade. I've never seen someone with Dooley's track record mysteriously become a great coach.

You see, as a Bears fan I've sat through the mediocre years with the Dave Wandstadts and Dick Jarauns of the world. I cheered for them just like I did Tennessee, but knew deep down when going against the elite we would probably get our teeth kicked in as we did. Check those dudes track records. Mediocre to decent head coaches everywhere they've been. When I look at Dooley I see the same. And that's just how I feel. Been there done that.

I also heard a similar argument amongst the WVU fanbase. Many felt Bill Stewart needed more time because he was changing from a spread to pro style. Many felt they were making a mistake firing him after 3 years when in reality letting him hang around would have seriously set the program back. Especially with them moving to the Big 12. And like Dooley he was a great guy (RIP BILL!) but an average coach. So perhaps I AM an uninformed fan as you say. Or perhaps I've sat through these situations more times than I can count, and I see the same trend with the current situation that I've seen in the past. Time will tell, but history sides with my view on things.

We're both passionate, that's pretty obvious. And you seem to be a pretty intelligent guy from reading yours posts in the past. You have your take and I have mine. The future shall reveal who is uninformed. Until then.....
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rich you are the man, you like the same teams i root for. go bears, reds and vols. remember dooley's claim to fame is one spot over les miles, hahahahahahahahahaahhahhahahahaha.
 
#189
#189
champyvol said:
rich you are the man, you like the same teams i root for. go bears, reds and vols. remember dooley's claim to fame is one spot over les miles, hahahahahahahahahaahhahhahahahaha.
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Same example could be made for the Reds. How many rag tag coaches did we go thru? As I stated, been there done that.
 
#190
#190
TheDirector said:
We had roster attrition when Fulmer left and Kiffin was hired. Then we had more roster attrition when Kiffin left. We basically missed an entire recruiting class because almost all of Kiffin's recruits didn't pan out. So our situation is similar to a team going on probation because of the lost players. This year we finally have some upper-classmen again and are showing signs of improvement. If we don't lose too many juniors to the draft, we will be preseason top 20 next year with loads of experience. And we will be in year 2 of the 3-4 defense so that side will improve tremendously as well.
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Condensed version=Not Dooley's fault.
Right?
 
#192
#192
RichRollin said:
Yeah you know it all. Let's just give up, you're the man. I never said anything about judging him on his 3rd class that isn't finished. That's a FACT! You're using that as a pathetic attempt to strengthen your argument. I actually think this could be a good class, but it won't continue if we don't start beating people. That's what I'm saying.

You're trying to convince me that a coach without a winning track record is the man, then trying to down my intelligence while doing so. I've been down this road, I'll call a spade a spade. I've never seen someone with Dooley's track record mysteriously become a great coach.

You see, as a Bears fan I've sat through the mediocre years with the Dave Wandstadts and Dick Jarauns of the world. I cheered for them just like I did Tennessee, but knew deep down when going against the elite we would probably get our teeth kicked in as we did. Check those dudes track records. Mediocre to decent head coaches everywhere they've been. When I look at Dooley I see the same. And that's just how I feel. Been there done that.

I also heard a similar argument amongst the WVU fanbase. Many felt Bill Stewart needed more time because he was changing from a spread to pro style. Many felt they were making a mistake firing him after 3 years when in reality letting him hang around would have seriously set the program back. Especially with them moving to the Big 12. And like Dooley he was a great guy (RIP BILL!) but an average coach. So perhaps I AM an uninformed fan as you say. Or perhaps I've sat through these situations more times than I can count, and I see the same trend with the current situation that I've seen in the past. Time will tell, but history sides with my view on things.

We're both passionate, that's pretty obvious. And you seem to be a pretty intelligent guy from reading yours posts in the past. You have your take and I have mine. The future shall reveal who is uninformed. Until then.....
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You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but i think will stick with the opinion of someone like Nick Saban. He seems to think we made a pretty good decision in his comments about Dooley and our situation. If you liste to our opponents coaches, after the games are over, they are telling us allwe need to know about our program. They are all impressed by the improvements we have made from where we were when he took over.

As you stated, we will know in a couple years. I think he should get those two more years.
 
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#193
#193
LvilleVol said:
You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but i think will stick with the opinion of someone like Nick Saban. He seems to think we made a pretty good decision in his comments about Dooley and our situation. If you liste to our opponents coaches, after the games are over, they are telling us allwe need to know about our program. They are all impressed by the improvements we have made from where we were when he took over.

As you stated, we will know in a couple years. I think he should get those two more years.
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why wouldn't they say that, they just laid 40 on us. they said the samething about shula zook denardo tubberville, look how all those turned out. 3 years and he still isn't getting it done those are the facts. i don't really care if he out recruited miles one year, the facts are miles wins, dooley doesn't. he also finished 6th in the sec in recruiting that year. i don't care if somebody's opinion they think dooley is gonna turn it arund, even if they just have a feeling. thats fine, but his information here really makes little sense.
 
#194
#194
LvilleVol said:
You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but i think will stick with the opinion of someone like Nick Saban. He seems to think we made a pretty good decision in his comments about Dooley and our situation. If you liste to our opponents coaches, after the games are over, they are telling us allwe need to know about our program. They are all impressed by the improvements we have made from where we were when he took over.

As you stated, we will know in a couple years. I think he should get those two more years.
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What do you think they are gonna say with a mic shoved in they're face? The majority of people nationally don't think too highly of Dooley as a coach.
 
#195
#195
RichRollin said:
What do you think they are gonna say with a mic shoved in they're face? The majority of people nationally don't think too highly of Dooley as a coach.
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anybody outside tennessee knows he is a joke. i live up here with the OSU fans and i hate it. they rip on dooley all the time and what can i say except to agree with them. he has proven nothing.
 
#196
#196
champyvol said:
anybody outside tennessee knows he is a joke. i live up here with the OSU fans and i hate it. they rip on dooley all the time and what can i say except to agree with them. he has proven nothing.
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Half my family lives up in Cleveland, and they say the same thing. I have family in WV who also say the same thing. The fact of the matter is, the fanbase is split. And neither side is gonna budge. But if you follow history and coaches of Dooley's ilk, it's pretty obvious what the deal is.
 
#197
#197
champyvol said:
anybody outside tennessee knows he is a joke. i live up here with the OSU fans and i hate it. they rip on dooley all the time and what can i say except to agree with them. he has proven nothing.
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Good think people in Ohio that put bags of dog **** on Herbstreits front door for saying OSU would lose on gameday are not only in tune with the UT program, but are also looked upon for advice and discussion.

Dooley is highly regarded by his peers in college football. Anything else stated is made up bs to support the hate. And who gives a rats ass what some shmuck in Ohio thinks about a program he knows little about.
 
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#198
#198
Spartacavolus said:
Good think people in Ohio that put bags of dog **** on Herbstreits front door for saying OSU would lose on gameday are not only in tune with the UT program, but are also looked upon for advice and discussion.

Dooley is highly regarded by his peers in college football. Anything else stated is made up bs to support the hate. And who gives a rats ass what some shmuck in Ohio thinks about a program he knows little about.
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I have 3 family members in Cleveland Ohio who played pro sports. And none of them went to OSU but did play major D-1 football. Along with others who didn't go pro but played D-1. Point is, these dudes know football and are not OSU homers. They think Dooley is a joke. But I'm sure they are uninformed and just making up BS. What do you expect Dooley's peers to say to the media? That he sucks.
 
#199
#199
Will one if you Dooley Haters cough up $5000000 so we can fire him and hire another coach. That way the new coach can get all the credit and there will also be another name for you to bash if they don't win A championship in 2 or 3 years. It is nice tho to not cringe every day when you pick up a paper thinking one or more of the players got arrested for something.
 
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#200
#200
PimpVol said:
Negavols need to unite so when we beat MSU you all can have a Jim Jones party.
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I hope Tn beats MSU by 100 but its MIss St. I have seen who they have played and if Dooley had that schedule he would be 5-0.
I guess if Tn wins that's Dooleys signature win ?
 
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