Why is Trump destroying NATO ?

Why is Trump destroying NATO?

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#153
#153
BearCat204 said:
Honest question.....why do many think the US needs this alliance? What do we get from NATO and is what we get from NATO worth the price we pay for it. Also, compare the price we pay to what the rest of NATO pays and tell me why it makes sense for the US. Honestly wanting dialogue here and not really looking to argue.
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After fighting twice on the European plain in the last century and seeing the starting spread of communism NATO made perfect sense. A strong defensive posture to curtail the possibility of attack in the future.

And that’s fine and I think makes sense. But what I would like to understand is how NATO makes sense in the current world political environment.

I’m all for alliances with alllies and partners. And I don’t think the US is going to leave NATO. But the mission statement needs to be current and relevant and the major players at least need to own their share. I’m staring at Germany and France here.

Just look at the spending chart on the previous page. There is no NATO without the US. All pigs are equal. Some pigs are more equal than others.
 
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#155
#155
landscapingvol said:
Or maybe, Trump is tired of the US getting screwed over by an obsolete alliance that has been one sided at best much like the UN. I have never understood the hysteria towards Russia. This hysteria has led to countless America deaths and since NATO is so concerned about Russia why did they sit out of the two wars fought to stop the advancement of communism in Vietnam and Korea? Which nation has led to more deaths of its own people during the last century, Russia or China? Should there be an alliance against China? I know the Left loves a good war just ask Wilson, Truman, Johnson, W, and Obama. I believe Obama bombed the most countries since WWII
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Approved!




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#160
#160
After decades of polite presidents accepting empty promises from our European allied countries.

The bill is due and Trump is here to collect..
 
#161
#161
NorthDallas40 said:
Bump for LG. So why not call out Germany here?
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For what? For having trade deals with Russia?


We do, too.


The world is interdependent, economically. It is largely the reason that we have avoided a major war between large economies since 1945 -- because of economic self interest of powerful persons and groups within each country. We don't attack each other because it would be economic suicide to do so.


The irony of Trump, who is clearly beholden to Russia, calling out German for buying natural gas from them, is flat out hilarious.
 
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#163
#163
SpaceCoastVol said:
I voted that he is a full fledged Russian agent. Just to show the sheer stupidity of your poll.
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I voted that he is, but unwittingly. He's too stupid to have realized what was happening. Now, he is in denial.


Again, you have to hand it to Putin. He chose his target well.


A retired US Army colonel lieutenant and military analyst said he believes President Donald Trump may be on the tip of the spear with Russian intelligence.
Ralph Peters suggested during a CNN interview on Wednesday night that Russian President Vladimir Putin has "some kind of grip on Trump," pointing to the US president's documented affinity toward Putin, and his hesitation to speak critically of the Kremlin.
Peters, who trained in Russian studies, the Russian language, and has experience with Russian intelligence officers, indicated that what he sees in Trump's behavior are the signs of someone who may be compromised by one of the US's most formidable enemies.
The former Fox News military analyst also referenced the Steele dossier, a collection of memos and opposition research on Trump compiled by a former British intelligence agent. Peters said the dossier "rang true" to him, because, as he put it, Trump "has no self-control, a sense of sexual entitlement, and intermittent financial crises."
"That's made-to-order for seduction by Russian intelligence," Peters said, later adding that he hopes the Russians don't have Trump wrapped around their fingers.
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#164
#164
lawgator1 said:
for what? For having trade deals with russia?


We do, too.


The world is interdependent, economically. It is largely the reason that we have avoided a major war between large economies since 1945 -- because of economic self interest of powerful persons and groups within each country. We don't attack each other because it would be economic suicide to do so.


The irony of trump, who is clearly beholden to russia, calling out german for buying natural gas from them, is flat out hilarious.
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#165
#165
lawgator1 said:
For what? For having trade deals with Russia?


We do, too.


The world is interdependent, economically. It is largely the reason that we have avoided a major war between large economies since 1945 -- because of economic self interest of powerful persons and groups within each country. We don't attack each other because it would be economic suicide to do so.


The irony of Trump, who is clearly beholden to Russia, calling out German for buying natural gas from them, is flat out hilarious.
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Ridiculous and inconsistent. Providing gas to Europe is a huge income stream fior Russia. You’re not being consistent. If you were really about not favoring Russia then you would call this out. Canada and the US could easily supply this gas if it was about supporting allies.

Your stance is hypocritical.
 
#167
#167
NATO's own numbers on who spends what. In .PDF or Excel.

These graphs are telling. Look at Graph 9 for US spending vs ALL THE REST of NATO.


https://www.nato.int/cps/ic/natohq/news_156770.htm

Trump IS NOT WRONG. It's time someone stood up to the rest of NATO and told them it's time to root, hog,...or die. Germany, with their GNP, especially needs to step up to the plate. If they don't we need to reconsider our deployment of over 34,000 troops in Germany alone. Can someone with easier access to research then me with a smart phone find out just how much American dollars are folded into Germany's economy by those 39,000+ troops?


Chart: U.S. Military Personnel Deployments by Country


Over the past several months, the entirety of Germany's submarine fleet has gone out of action, the Bundeswehr, its armed forces, has outsourced helicopter training to a private company because its own helicopters are in need of repair, and more than half of the Bundeswehr's Leopard 2 tanks, its most common model, were out of order, with just 95 of 244 in service.

Those are only the latest reports of German military deficiencies.

In spring 2017, the Bundeswehr contingent deployed to a peacekeeping mission in Mali was left hamstrung when heat, dust, and rough terrain knocked half its vehicles out of commission. In early 2016, it was reported that German reconnaissance jets taking part in the fight against ISIS couldn't fly at night because their cockpit lighting was too bright for pilots.

In early 2015, as Berlin was preparing to send fighter jets to Syria, a military report emerged saying that only 66 of the air force's 93 commissioned fighters were operational - and only 29 were combat-ready. In 2014, German troops tried to disguise a shortage of weapons by replacing machine guns with broomsticks during a NATO exercise.


German military is falling behind, and the US is putting it on notice
 
#168
#168
I though anything Russia was bad??? Where did that agenda item go? Trump calling out the Germans collusion with Russia to undermine NATO. Where is the outrage!
 
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#172
#172
Orangedogsrule said:
NATO's own numbers on who spends what. In .PDF or Excel.

These graphs are telling. Look at Graph 9 for US spending vs ALL THE REST of NATO.


NATO - News: Defence Expenditure of NATO Countries (2011-2018) , 10-Jul.-2018

Trump IS NOT WRONG. It's time someone stood up to the rest of NATO and told them it's time to root, hog,...or die. Germany, with their GNP, especially needs to step up to the plate. If they don't we need to reconsider our deployment of over 34,000 troops in Germany alone. Can someone with easier access to research then me with a smart phone find out just how much American dollars are folded into Germany's economy by those 39,000+ troops?


Chart: U.S. Military Personnel Deployments by Country


Over the past several months, the entirety of Germany's submarine fleet has gone out of action, the Bundeswehr, its armed forces, has outsourced helicopter training to a private company because its own helicopters are in need of repair, and more than half of the Bundeswehr's Leopard 2 tanks, its most common model, were out of order, with just 95 of 244 in service.

Those are only the latest reports of German military deficiencies.

In spring 2017, the Bundeswehr contingent deployed to a peacekeeping mission in Mali was left hamstrung when heat, dust, and rough terrain knocked half its vehicles out of commission. In early 2016, it was reported that German reconnaissance jets taking part in the fight against ISIS couldn't fly at night because their cockpit lighting was too bright for pilots.

In early 2015, as Berlin was preparing to send fighter jets to Syria, a military report emerged saying that only 66 of the air force's 93 commissioned fighters were operational - and only 29 were combat-ready. In 2014, German troops tried to disguise a shortage of weapons by replacing machine guns with broomsticks during a NATO exercise.


German military is falling behind, and the US is putting it on notice
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Yes Germany needs to get there head out of there ass regarding defense Of the 34,000 troops in Germany, only a fraction are there as part of the NATO commitment. The 2nd Cavalry Regiment, in Vilseck, 7th Army Training Command, in Grafenwoehr, 10th Army Air & Missile Defense Command, in Kaiserslautern, and 12th Combat Aviation Brigade, in Ansbach and the 10th SF Group which is responsible for both Europe and Africa. The rest support U.S. Operations in Eastern Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.
 
#174
#174
SLICKYINC said:
There are several articles about it but all of them show Germany being between 35-50% and going up in the future.

Germany Is Addicted to Russian Gas - Bloomberg

Germany’s dependence on imported fossil fuels | Clean Energy Wire
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In 2017 Germany got 9% of its total energy consumption from Russian gas and 40 percent of its total gas consumption. Germany's energy mix for power production is about 40% coal, more than 30% renewables, less than 20% gas and 10% nuclear.
 
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#175
#175
evillawyer said:
Donald Trump stuns Nato leaders with extraordinary tirade against Germany | London Evening Standard
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You guys...and libs...read the comments section? EVERY single one of them..British folks btw...agreed with what Trump says, and the first 2 or 3 openly wish they had him, or a leader just like him. How about that? One post even calls out the English people for not showimg enough respect for "the elected leader of the free world".

But all the foreigners hate Trump, right? He gets zero respect worldwide, right? These English folk state that so far he has done nothing but help the US, and though some dont like his mannerisms...they are quick to separate that from his effectiveness as a leader, and support his policy.

Crazy that a leader who is on an amazing win streak, both at home and worldwide, can't get any respect by the media and half the population here...yet educated western citizens in Europe can see that despite the slanted journalism, Trump is kicking tail. He flat called Germany out, and they have already agreed to remove tariffs on our autos sold there, and talks trash about Russia and holding them at bay...when he is heading into a meeting with Putin on Monday. Why?? Because he isn't scared. Finally, we have a POTUS with a set of balls.
 
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