Why slow it down????

#151
#151
BruinVol said:
I missed that.

If we see that the average possessions in losses is the same as all games, then that will prove alot.

Give us that canes??
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I don't have time to calculate that, but I can make an educated guess from looking at the numbers that the average win possessions and loss possessions would be pretty similar.
 
#153
#153
BruinVol said:
I have only had time to look at last years losses. I will do the rest later tonight.

Here's the numbers:

53
55
56
58
61
61
62
64
67
68
69
69
76

Average of 63. 3possesions less than our seasons average

That's 8of13 losses games that were under our seasons average pace wise.
Click to expand...

Last year our average in losses was 62.9 and average in wins not counting OT games was 62.5



What's your point?
 
#155
#155
bleedingTNorange said:
So in other words../
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Bto

Unlike you(i havnt forgotten about the team defensive effociency stat i provided but you still wouldnt admit being wrong) when I do these numbers tonight and if it shows possesions and total scoring isn't connected I will admit I was wrong.
 
#156
#156
BruinVol said:
Bto

Unlike you(i havnt forgotten about team defensive effociency stat i provided but you still wouldnt admit being wrong) when I do these numbers tonight and if it shows possesions and total scoring isn't connected I will admit I was wrong.
Click to expand...

What did the post I just posted say?

62.9 possessions per game in losses
62.5 possessions per game in wins
 
#158
#158
BruinVol said:
We will pick this up tonight. I am sure you will gladly come back since it appears you are correct!
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I tried telling you I was this AM, tried saving everyone the last 5 hours of math, but oh well it's passed the day.

Like I said, from these numbers and like MC pointed out, it seems we are better playing at our pace and effective defense. When we try and play faster it seems to hurt our defense more than it helps our offense.
 
#159
#159
bleedingTNorange said:
Found the possessions numbers Bruin....you owe MC a donut.

Over the last 2 years when we have LESS THAN 70 POSSESSIONS IN A GAME

We are: 34-21 winning percentage of 62%


Over the last 2 years when we have MORE THAN 70 POSSESSIONS IN A GAME

We are: 5-6 winning percentage of 45%
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But...but...but...

We should run more!

Sorry, but it's hilarious that people say we should employ a fast pace when numbers say otherwise.

It's simple. We lost because we played bad D in the second half, got out rebounded, and free throws.

We played the same pace in the second half and shot 59% in the second half.
 
#160
#160
Spartacavolus said:
And some of us don't need a stat to tell us that slowing it down and running a slow halfcourt offense cost us a W against Xavier.
You can't put a stat on how many more games would've been won had we played at pace more often last year. Guess what. It was what, 8 games in last year before he picked up the pace and went on a tear. Kenny Hall sits. Things look good. Then it gets tight and he cm puckers up, reverting back to early season gameplans. Slows it down. Then Kenny hall is back getting minutes and your team shockingly loses and plays terribly.
We went from scoring 40+ to 80+ for several games. You guys think it was because we ran the motion offense better?
Common sense should prevail.
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Go ahead. Ignore evidence of 60+ games. Evidence says Tennessee should not run a fast pace.

We can ***** about the offense all we want, but pace isn't the issue you should be *****ing about.
 
#161
#161
bleedingTNorange said:
When we try and play faster it seems to hurt our defense more than it helps our offense.
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While I fully admit nearly all you are saying here is likely correct, I believe that pace, FG %, and scoring stats will show this is wrong.

Got to go now but I will be back tonight
 
#162
#162
MemphisCanes said:
I'm done with the calculations. Basically, what they've shown so far is that when CCM hits his current average possessions or in that ballpark, he wins far more than he loses.

When he slows it down or speeds it up too much (basically when he lets another team dictate a fast or uber slow pace) he doesn't do as well.
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Great point.

When Tennessee plays their basketball (good defense, attacks the basket, and rebounds really well) they win.

Pace isn't the problem.
 
#163
#163
Spartacavolus said:
Bull****. Why do you think we played atrocious? It goes hand in hand. Sorry you can't see it.
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We got out rebounded by 15, gave up 48% shooting, including 56% in the second half, and shot 7-19 from the free throw line?
 
#165
#165
Omitting overtime games, our average possessions were:

2012 wins: 62.5
2012 losses: 63

2011 wins: 65.8
2011 losses: 65.9

(I did this quickly but i think it's right.)

So speeding up our tempo would mean hitting 70+ possessions per game, which drastically lowers our winning percentage. I think MC's point is probably the best takeaway from this exceedingly tedious exercise. When CCM controls pace and plays around 60-65 possessions per game, we're the most successful. When we get much outside of that high or low, our winning percentage drops.
 
#166
#166
CAVol said:
All recipes for disaster.
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None of which deal with a lower pace.

Maybe our first half offense sucked because we played a solid program in a hostile environment for our first game of the year?
 
#167
#167
I don't have a single stat to back this up, but....

...I bet, regardless of pace, that the better team wins most of the time.
 
#169
#169
Also, on las year...

On points per possession on offense, we were fifth in the SEC.

On points per possession on defense, we were eleventh in the SEC.

So really, offense wasn't the problem. It was defense.
 
#170
#170
Here's the last ones I'm doing lol:

2011-2012:

Average possessions per game in wins: 65.2
Average possessions per game in losses: 67.3



2012-2013:

Average possessions per game in wins: 62.5
Average possessions per game in losses: 62.9





So in both of Martin's years our average possessions per game were LOWER IN WINS than they were in losses. That should put this to end, hopefully.
 
#171
#171
zjcvols said:
But...but...but...

We should run more!

Sorry, but it's hilarious that people say we should employ a fast pace when numbers say otherwise.

It's simple. We lost because we played bad D in the second half, got out rebounded, and free throws.

We played the same pace in the second half and shot 59% in the second half.
Click to expand...

Yup, it's pretty simple really.
 
#172
#172
zjcvols said:
Also, on las year...

On points per possession on offense, we were fifth in the SEC.

On points per possession on defense, we were eleventh in the SEC.

So really, offense wasn't the problem. It was defense.
Click to expand...

Which goes perfectly with the stat I brought up on our defensive fg%....Martin's goal is hold opponents under 40% from the field, when we do that we are almost unbeatable the records show.
 
#173
#173
BigZiti09 said:
It looked to me like we came out and played with jitters. Jordan even said something similar in post game interview.

Missing layups and free throws is why we only scored 20 in the first half IMO. I know you don't want to believe that. You've spent two days telling everyone how much you know about basketball.
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When someone says I don't know good basketball when I see it, I'm going to correct them. As for the other debates, I'm debating points. If you can refute them, go ahead.
As far as jitters, no joke. Every team that opened up Tuesday had jitters. If you don't have jitters, stop playing. Lame excuse. Jitters are gone in two trips down the court if you start playing. I assume the jitters were still there walking it up the court at the 10 minute mark with 5 pts scored. And you keep blaming ft's yet continue to fail to mention Xavier's misses from the line
 
#174
#174
zjcvols said:
But...but...but...

We should run more!

Sorry, but it's hilarious that people say we should employ a fast pace when numbers say otherwise.

It's simple. We lost because we played bad D in the second half, got out rebounded, and free throws.

We played the same pace in the second half and shot 59% in the second half.
Click to expand...


What's hilarious that you pick a stat like that yet can't look at the game for what it was. If you don't know by now this team and it's players plays better with a quicker paced game and with space vs slow it down offense you need to stop the blogging bs.
Let me ask you this, do those bs stats take into consideration how many games you didn't win by pushing the pace when it was to your advantage? Hell no. Does it tell you we could've won 6-7 more games last year with the faster paced 4-1 lineup change earlier rather than 1/3rd thru the season? Of course not. Is the competition considered? Injuries? Foul trouble?
Those are reasons why some coaches look at stats, but not many statisticians are coaches. Good coaches go by what they see on the floor and their gut, rather than random stats that can be easily skewed in either direction.
 
#175
#175
The issue when we push it has always been that it hurts our defense. We don't win when we push the pace, the stats say as much.

Now I don't know what would've happened had we ran more from the tip against Xavier, but I know what history shows and it says we would've given up a whole lot more points than we did.
 
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