"Wikileaks" to unveil it's "biggest leak yet"

[DC Vol]

Yes, they are one and the same. Classified material released is classified material released. Bulk vs substance is everything.

Do you think, maybe, the Taliban have ramped up operations because we have as well? Whatyathink?

Do you think, maybe, it was because of the elections in September? Hm. Puzzling.

I will issue you a challenge. As I am kind of busy and only will be in and out of here over the next two weeks... in two weeks, find me a substantial leak that you could use, if you were an insurgent, to inflict serious harm on either another Afghani, due to working with Americans (save Afghani government officials, tribal leaders and regional "war lords" who are already targeted), or a leak that would allow you to inflict serious harm on American troops that would not be more easily observed if in country.

Well, one of the leaks is the NATO contingency plan and OOB for the Baltic if there were actions taken against Russia. So, unless we go to war with them and they exploit that knowledge... there is no real weight to that. It's like the price of oil in the 1100s vs. today. It also outlined Polish requests for US troop presence in Poland and also vague details about the capabilities of the missile shield.


This was released while Poland and most NATO governments were working to smooth the tenuous relations with Russia over.

 

[fl0at]

I doubt that I can post the direct link to the cable without it being removed by a mod but here's the title of it and feel free to look for it on your own.

I read it, and it offers no targets in Afghanistan or Iraq that aren't already known.

It does list 2008 infrastructure critical items, of which much probably haven't changed. Assuming several are viable, they will be closely watched.

I would bet the farm that the most viable targets have already been identified and measures taken.

Any of them been attacked?

 

[fl0at]

How long were you in Iraq and what did you do??

7 months. My job was to observe. My secondary was to deliver long range precision fire.

Insurgents and others use the Internet to pass information and propaganda, absolutely. But they don't collect the vast majority from the Internet. They do that the same way we do it; distribution and collection are two different things.

What list was given that supplied our collectors? I really haven't looked into this subject very deeply, if there is a list, I would like to see it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Seeing it might very well change my mind.

If you are as well read in military history as you say, then you already know how to counter this leak in such a way as to protect assets. A leak can be as beneficial as harmful, depending on actions taken.

Your anecdote is a good example. But it requires that the sole reason he stopped giving his video recordings was because of such a statement. It could also be due to his health or due to his location no longer being in the Mountains, thus greatly altering our search.

The point is simply: things are not as simple as they seem.

You won't hear me call them stupid, which is why I give them credit for their ability to gather information without the need for the Internet... as they have done for years, and years, and years, already.

If I wanted to find a good Italian restaurant I'd call some up and find out how well they speak Italian.

You'd find a great restaurant... and you didn't even have to use the Internet. How about that.

 

[gsvol]

Yes, they are one and the same. Classified material released is classified material released. Bulk vs substance is everything.

Do you think, maybe, the Taliban have ramped up operations because we have as well? Whatyathink?

Do you think, maybe, it was because of the elections in September? Hm. Puzzling.

I will issue you a challenge. As I am kind of busy and only will be in and out of here over the next two weeks... in two weeks, find me a substantial leak that you could use, if you were an insurgent, to inflict serious harm on either another Afghani, due to working with Americans (save Afghani government officials, tribal leaders and regional "war lords" who are already targeted), or a leak that would allow you to inflict serious harm on American troops that would not be more easily observed if in country.

The book I was talking about didn't have to do with classified material.

The list of one hundred names satifies your challenge!

I doubt that I can post the direct link to the cable without it being removed by a mod but here's the title of it and feel free to look for it on your own.

09STATE15113, REQUEST FOR INFORMATION:CRITICAL FOREIGN DEPENDENCIES (CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND KEY RESOURCES LOCATED ABROAD)

I'll try to find the news article I read about it when I get back, but it seems like my friend took it down from his Facebook and I can't remember the name of it.

You are a major brainiac when it comes to intelligence matters, you know that???

 

[VOLatile]

I read it, and it offers no targets in Afghanistan or Iraq that aren't already known.

It does list 2008 infrastructure critical items, of which much probably haven't changed. Assuming several are viable, they will be closely watched.

I would bet the farm that the most viable targets have already been identified and measures taken.

Any of them been attacked?

I missed the part about it having to do with Afghani places. Oops.

 

[fl0at]

The book I was talking about didn't have to do with classified material.

The list of one hundred names satifies your challenge!

http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/110942-another-book-burning-pentagon.html

Depends on whether you consider damaging to national security as being classified material.

What list? I will very likely change my mind if there is a list that contains one hundred names of collectors. It would absolutely satisfy the challenge, assuming they are Afghani collectors.

So far, though, you have only said there is a list. I'm sorry if I don't take you for your word. If there is a list, send it on.

Are you deriding Volatile for posting a leak that, clearly, "they" already have, based on your assertion that they use WikiLeaks? That is almost like trying to bluff after you've already shown the table your cards.

If your comment was to me, I've already stated my view on the matter.

 

[VOLatile]

You are a major brainiac when it comes to intelligence matters, you know that???

Because this is new information?

 

[gsvol]

7 months. My job was to observe. My secondary was to deliver long range precision fire.

Insurgents and others use the Internet to pass information and propaganda, absolutely. But they don't collect the vast majority from the Internet. They do that the same way we do it; distribution and collection are two different things.

What list was given that supplied our collectors? I really haven't looked into this subject very deeply, if there is a list, I would like to see it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Seeing it might very well change my mind.

If you are as well read in military history as you say, then you already know how to counter this leak in such a way as to protect assets. A leak can be as beneficial as harmful, depending on actions taken.

Your anecdote is a good example. But it requires that the sole reason he stopped giving his video recordings was because of such a statement. It could also be due to his health or due to his location no longer being in the Mountains, thus greatly altering our search.

The point is simply: things are not as simple as they seem.

You won't hear me call them stupid, which is why I give them credit for their ability to gather information without the need for the Internet... as they have done for years, and years, and years, already.



You'd find a great restaurant... and you didn't even have to use the Internet. How about that.

Artillery?? Why only 7 months?

Don't answer if you consider that too personal.

The point is that this is espionage and it is directed at America.

Even left winger Diane Feinstein says Assange should be prosecuted for espionage.

No one is trying to say the internet is going to replace humint, except maybe Al Gore who invented it. (the internet NOT humint, just in case there is some misunderstanding.)

There is no way to protect assets once their names have been leaked.

 

[fl0at]

Artillery?? Why only 7 months?

The point is that this is espionage and it is directed at America.

There is no way to protect assets once their names have been leaked.

Nope, not artillery, though I can drop some indirect fire. I hit Afghanistan and Iraq. I also deployed on UDP. There is only so much time in 4 years. Would have stayed for another 7 months, but was told I had to rotate home first and then jump on with another unit deploying. Would have been an AO change, and I liked my AO well enough and the guys that replaced us were pretty solid.

I agree it is espionage, I just don't agree Assuage is the guilty party. Not yet. More info may come to light in the future that leads me to change my mind, but as it stands, he published the information, he didn't collect it. PFC Manning will most likely be charged for collecting the information.

I will agree with Tenn, though. Assuage had an agenda, the way he published the information is suspect and his overall attitude toward the ordeal is completely incorrect. He should have shown more restraint in how he released the documents.

I don't like his actions, but that doesn't mean I have to support his beheading.

And yes, there is a way to support assets once their names have been released. Not all of them, but you can get the good ones. And since we had prior warning that documents would be released, we should have had time to implement such measures.

I'll give you an example: If you are collecting for me, I have more than two options, but I'll state the obvious two. 1. I can cut you loose. Sorry. 2. I can extract you.

 

[gsvol]

Nope, not artillery, though I can drop some indirect fire. I hit Afghanistan and Iraq. I also deployed on UDP. There is only so much time in 4 years. Would have stayed for another 7 months, but was told I had to rotate home first and then jump on with another unit deploying. Would have been an AO change, and I liked my AO well enough and the guys that replaced us were pretty solid.

I agree it is espionage, I just don't agree Assuage is the guilty party. Not yet. More info may come to light in the future that leads me to change my mind, but as it stands, he published the information, he didn't collect it. PFC Manning will most likely be charged for collecting the information.

I will agree with Tenn, though. Assuage had an agenda, the way he published the information is suspect and his overall attitude toward the ordeal is completely incorrect. He should have shown more restraint in how he released the documents.

I don't like his actions, but that doesn't mean I have to support his beheading.

And yes, there is a way to support assets once their names have been released. Not all of them, but you can get the good ones. And since we had prior warning that documents would be released, we should have had time to implement such measures.

I'll give you an example: If you are collecting for me, I have more than two options, but I'll state the obvious two. 1. I can cut you loose. Sorry. 2. I can extract you.

What is UDP? Were you on a sniper/mortar team?

What is AO, what unit were you with??

The obvious is that lives have been put in danger by
the data published by Assange, including the lives of
American servicemen.

I think more of Assange's material came from a mole
in the state department than from Manning.

Here is one thing that might change the current left
wing narative:

Wikileaks: Saddam's WMD program existed in Iraq - National Law Enforcement | Examiner.com

The recent release by WikiLeaks of classified
Pentagon documents reveals that U.S. military
intelligence discovered chemical weapons labs,
encountered insurgents who were specialists in
the creation of toxins, and uncovered weapons
of mass destruction.

The latest WikiLeaks document dump reveals
that as late as 2008, American troops continued
to find WMD in the region.

There are numerous mentions of chemical and
biological weapons in the WikiLeaks documents,
however the U.S. media appear only interested
in those portions of the leaked material that
highlight actions that are viewed as embarrassing
for the U.S. military such as the accusation that
U.S. commanders were aware of abuse and "torture"
of prisoners by Iraqi soldiers and police officers.

Furthermore the nuclear material was shipped to
Syria and Byelorus prior to our invasion because
Jay Rockefeller went over there and told them we
were about to invade and he admitted doing so.

 

[DC Vol]

What is UDP?

UDP is Unit Deployment Program. I hadn't heard of the term until a buddy was talking about UDP in regards to his deployment to Okinawa and said it's all about reducing the length and number of unaccompanied tours and individual is faced with.

Obviously, due to Okinawa's physical size coupled with the bulk personnel requirements... many deployed Marines go without families and then attach onto other deploying units through IA (individual augmentee) either directly on Okinawa or rendezvous with west coast MEUs in Hawai'i. At least that's how it was in my field which is, admittedly, small.



I'm guessing fl0at was on a MEU and then was booted back to Okinawa. I'm guessing the dirtyworst?

 

[joevol320]

How long were you in Iraq and what did you do??

I'm not especially angry but if volatile wants to get his panties all wadded up I'll give him a wedgie he won't ever forget.

If you don't think islamic forces use internet sources both to gather information and to dessiminate propaganda and disinformation then I don't know what to think of you.

Sure they rely on humint but if handed a list of those supplying information to us then what do you think they would do with that?? And that is exactly what has happened.

As far as knowledge of events, I've read a library full of military history, all classified top secret so, we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether my logic and knoledge are flawed or not.

I'll give you a good example, Bin Laden was filming and broadcasting his messages and some geologist said he thought he could narrow down his loaction by studying the rock formations in front of the cave where Bin Laden was filiming his manifestos.

Presto, there have been no more such broadcasts by Bin Laden that might give away his loacation.

These people aren't stupid, misguided but not as stupid as you apparently imagine them to be.

If I wanted to find a good Italian restaurant I'd call some up and find out how well they speak Italian.

remember in the 1st gulf war, when cnn reported troop build up in an area of Iraq. suddam sent forces there but found out that the military used CNN to mislead the iraq military because they knew iraq was watching.

 

[DC Vol]

PBS actually did a special in late 2002 or very early 2003 saying there was a 1-1 construction of Iraq's nuclear weapons program that was destroyed in the 1st Gulf War. It was quite obvious they were intending to build nuclear weapons. After a cache of WMDs came up missing... information about the WMDs became very scarce.

The biggest part about this, though, is the motive. This is what agitates me. There is a high level of entitlement among the 1st World's citizens. They want the sordid details about a world and a war they don't actually understand. Regardless, this is the world we live in now. Welcome to organized anarchy, hope you people that are pushing for Wikileaks like the world you've wrought.

 

[gsvol]

Wikileaks Wages Cyber Warfare Against The United States & Our Government Does Nothing

In a disclosure of some of the most sensitive information revealed yet by WikiLeaks, the website has released a secret cable listing sites worldwide that the U.S. considers critical to its national security.

Just keep milling about sheeple, al-Qaeda will never read that list.

In 2006, Mr. Assange wrote a pair of essays, “State and Terrorist Conspiracies” and “Conspiracy as Governance.” He sees the U.S. as an authoritarian conspiracy. “To radically shift regime behavior we must think clearly and boldly for if we have learned anything, it is that regimes do not want to be changed,” he writes. “Conspiracies take information about the world in which they operate,” he writes, and “pass it around the conspirators and then act on the result.”

His central plan is that leaks will restrict the flow of information among officials—”conspirators” in his view—making government less effective. Or, as Mr. Assange puts it, “We can marginalize a conspiracy’s ability to act by decreasing total conspiratorial power until it is no longer able to understand, and hence respond effectively to its environment. . . . An authoritarian conspiracy that cannot think efficiently cannot act to preserve itself.”

Assange is no different than a million idiots who have preceded him, while he intent upon tearing down our government he is as clueless as a dead stinking clam about what he would replace that with.

Wikileaks has made this Administration look naive, amateurish, and foolish in one fell swoop. They knew of this leak for 6-7 months or more and nothing has been done to stop it.

Nothing.

Obama and Holder are far closer to Assange than they are to mainstream Americans!

I’m betting Hossein Vahedi and his family ("This is very bad for my family," Dr. Vahedi told the New York Daily News on being told about the leak of the cable naming him and describing his exploits. Tehran has a new excuse to target his relatives in Iran. "How could this be printed?")wish Wikileaks had been stopped. Or maybe the families of those 1,300 Kenyans massacred.

WikiLeaks Supporters Attack MasterCard Website - Security - News & Reviews - eWeek.com

"Attacking a Website because you disagree with its politics or business decisions is a criminal activity,” opined Chet Wisniewski, senior security adviser at Sophos. “While those who are participating in these attacks are lashing out against practices they feel are unjust, this does not make it legal.

What a senseless bunch of little clueless dweebs.

 

[VOLatile]

It's not WikiLeaks that's doing to cyber war, it's Anonymous. They're doing it on their own. WikiLeaks didn't call for it. It's a VERY bad idea to get on Anon's bad side.

Here's a PBS News Hour explanation of what happened and how it happened and how it cannot be stopped. Much better of an explanation that CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News has made (which have all been incredibly terrible attempts).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-SmC7fH78M

And what do you have to say about the cables leaked that show the US is responsible for Etheopia invading Somalia, Shell bragging about infiltrating the Nigerian government, or the Texas company with contracts for US/Afghanistan that has been pimping out boy children to stoned Afghani policemen?

 

[bam15]

It's not WikiLeaks that's doing to cyber war, it's Anonymous. They're doing it on their own. WikiLeaks didn't call for it. It's a VERY bad idea to get on Anon's bad side.

And what do you have to say about the cables leaked that show the US is responsible for Etheopia invading Somalia, Shell bragging about infiltrating the Nigerian government, or the Texas company with contracts for US/Afghanistan that has been pimping out boy children to stoned Afghani policemen?

4chan?

 

[VOLatile]

4chan?

A select group of users, yes. Read my edit, too.

 

[gsvol]

It's not WikiLeaks that's doing to cyber war, it's Anonymous. They're doing it on their own. WikiLeaks didn't call for it. It's a VERY bad idea to get on Anon's bad side.

Here's a PBS News Hour explanation of what happened and how it happened and how it cannot be stopped. Much better of an explanation that CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News has made (which have all been incredibly terrible attempts).

YouTube - Who Are the 'Anonymous' Hackers Supporting WikiLeaks?

And what do you have to say about the cables leaked that show the US is responsible for Etheopia invading Somalia, Shell bragging about infiltrating the Nigerian government, or the Texas company with contracts for US/Afghanistan that has been pimping out boy children to stoned Afghani policemen?

SCREW anons. Are you trying to say there is no collusion??

PBS is full of crap, this could have been stopped in it's tracks some time ago.

What do YOU say about the 1,300 people murdered in Kenya or the 300,000+ who lost their homes?

You ought to go back to dummie underground and stay.

 

[VOLatile]

SCREW anons. Are you trying to say there is no collusion??

Anonymous sympathizes with WikiLeaks. Give me information where Julian Assange asked for the attacks on Visa, Mastercard, and several other businesses. It was a community based attack. Paypal has now unfrozen WikiLeaks's account because they're afraid of what might be coming.

PBS is full of crap, this could have been stopped in it's tracks some time ago.

Stop Anonymous? The harder you try, the harder they work and the more people that join on. Anonymous is full of anarchists. They don't care.

What do YOU say about the 1,300 people murdered in Kenya or the 300,000+ who lost their homes?

You ought to go back to dummie underground and stay.

I don't support ALL of the leaks and admit he has an agenda, but seriously - if these things never happened in the first place then there would be nothing to report. Don't shoot the messenger.

Now answer my question!

 

[gsvol]

Anonymous sympathizes with WikiLeaks. Give me information where Julian Assange asked for the attacks on Visa, Mastercard, and several other businesses. It was a community based attack. Paypal has now unfrozen WikiLeaks's account because they're afraid of what might be coming.



Stop Anonymous? The harder you try, the harder they work and the more people that join on. Anonymous is full of anarchists. They don't care.



I don't support ALL of the leaks and admit he has an agenda, but seriously - if these things never happened in the first place then there would be nothing to report. Don't shoot the messenger.

Now answer my question!

The invasion of Somalia by the Ethiopians was the best thing to happen to that country since the Italians left.

If not for the chicken sh!t policy of slick Willy Clinton who ignored the advice of his military who told him they needed heavy armor which was aboard ships offshore, the whole history of the world might be different today.

Bin Laden bragged that the USA didn't have the stomach to fight when we withdrew in a cowardly manner from Somalia.

Now you answer my question, how about the 1,300+ murdered in Kenya because of what Assange published that may have just been disinformation?????

(Not to mention men in Afghanistan who have been beheaded by the Taliban because Assange published their names.)

http://www.stolinsky.com/news/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=777

If private companies take the trouble to save themselves and us money, why can’t the U.S. government take the trouble to save our nation from embarrassment and damage to our foreign relations? Why can’t it take the trouble to save our friends overseas, who stuck their necks out to help us, from the very real risk of death? Why can’t it take the trouble to save foreign government officials who helped us from the risk of embarrassment and loss of power?

Why can’t the U.S. government have computer programs that reject the request - and ring alarm bells - when a 22-year-old private first class attempts to download at least 251,287 confidential or secret documents that contain sensitive details of State Department cables from across the globe? Why can’t our government have computer programs that reject requests for documents that seem irregular because of size, type of document, or location?

Specifically, why can’t our government have computer programs that refuse - and ring alarm bells - when a low-level person requests vast numbers of documents that have no relation to his duties or area of responsibility? Why can’t sensitive documents that could embarrass our government be segregated in a separate, difficult-to-access archive? Why can’t documents that might endanger our friends be restricted to access only by specially approved persons - with a need to know? After all, a request for documents from a person without a need to know is equivalent to a charge on a credit card by a person without authority to use the card.

In short, why can’t our government safeguard crucial information as well as - and one might hope better than - credit card companies are safeguarding money? Losing money can be troublesome. Losing secrecy can be fatal.
-----------------------------------

But equally to blame are our media. From their earliest years, kids sit glued to the television, often their primary source of “human” contact. And now we have Facebook, Twitter, and whatever is the newest electronic means of asserting our self-importance. Young people are deceived into believing that everyone − or anyone − is interesting in whatever meaningless activity they are pursuing at the moment.

As a result, a 22-year-old private first class became world famous by splattering other people’s secrets across the Internet. Why? Some say he was protesting “Don’t ask, don’t tell.” Others suspect that his motives were more nefarious.
---------------------------------

A nation of narcissists will have the usual enemies, but it will have few friends. Publishing unflattering, embarrassing, insulting messages about friends is an excellent way to alienate them. A nation of narcissists may not need external enemies to bring it down. Citizens loyal only to themselves can do the job nicely.

Screw paypall if they are so damed chickensh!t!

I have nothing but the utmost loathing for America haters such as you.

And don't try to find common ground with me, we have nothing in common except the english language. :hi:

 

[TennTradition]

Pressuring paypal is bull in my opinion. As they stated their user terms, it seemed to me he was violating them. He provides an avenue through which others break the law.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[VOLatile]

Pressuring paypal is bull in my opinion. As they stated their user terms, it seemed to me he was violating them. He provides an avenue through which others break the law.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Well, considering they made up the letter from the US State Department, it's not too far-fetched.

Paypal made up us government threat - The Inquirer

The only problem with that story is that the US State Department has denied it sent any such letter to Paypal. In fact US State Department spokesman Philip Crowley went so far as Twittering to categorically deny it and said that it was "not true".

I found this tid-bit to be quite interesting, too.

The US has a bit of a problem claiming that Wikileaks is illegal. US Attorney General Eric Holder said that it can not use the Espionage Act to target WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange. The best that it can manage will be a charge of trafficking in stolen government property instead.

However legal experts say that route will not work either, as Wikileaks' publication of the leaked diplomatic cables is just reproducing the files rather than stealing them.

 

[MG1968]

Russia will take care of what Holder couldn't/wouldn't. Once wikileaks and Assange begin leaking dirt on Russia, Putin will go all KGB on their arses.

 

[KingNick865]

Stop Anonymous? The harder you try, the harder they work and the more people that join on. Anonymous is full of anarchists. They don't care.

True. There's really no way to stop them. Anonymous is pretty much filled with 4chan users who have the ability to hack and crash any website they want to. Hell, they could crash VolNation in 5 minutes(or less) if they wanted to(no, they won't do it, VN is barely a blip on their radar).

 

[TennTradition]

What Assange is doing doesn't have to be illegal for PayPal to pull it's service if it violates their user terms. It seems to me that the site provides an avenue for others to break the law (and by existing seems to encourage it).
Posted via VolNation Mobile