Will the real Trayvon Martin please stand up?

#101
#101
NEOCON said:
I'm going to ask a very loaded question.

you see a black guy walking around late at night in a neighborhood where you know evryone and you (not you personally) automatically assume that the black person might be up to no good.

is that a stereotype or is it a logical thought process based on criminal statistics?
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I don't like your question. The question presupposes it can't be both.

Most stereotypes are based in reality. Either in generalities or perceptions.
 
#102
#102
zjcvols said:
Stereotype. I hate stereotypes for one reason. No two people are the same. That black kid could have a father in the military, a mother as a school teacher, has a 4.0 GPA, and is going to college next semester. Or he could have no family, is part of a gang, just got busted with marijuana and is packing heat. Or it could be somewhere in the middle (like Trayvon was).

Just like any white kid, hispanic kid, asian kid, or any other race for that matter.

Just because (and I don't know the stats, I'm making them it up) it says 60% of black teenagers are part of a gang doesn't mean you should say that kid is part of a gang. He could be 2 of the 5.

I view everyone has an unique individual. Nobody is the same. Call me naive, but that's how I view the world.

The point the media is making (despite some illogical leaps) is that a black shouldn't be followed in a neighborhood because he's black. And that is damn true.
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For arguments sake, if you go up to be mr friendly and nonracist to the wrong individual and you end up dead, would stereotyping have saved your life?
 
#103
#103
Spartacavolus said:
For arguments sake, if you go up to be mr friendly and nonracist to the wrong individual and you end up dead, would stereotyping have saved your life?
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Who knows? Doesn't matter. Again, I'm most likely naive, but at least I died trying to be friendly to someone. Not the worst way to die.
 
#105
#105
NEOCON said:
I'm going to ask a very loaded question.

you see a black guy walking around late at night in a neighborhood where you know evryone and you (not you personally) automatically assume that the black person might be up to no good.

is that a stereotype or is it a logical thought process based on criminal statistics?
Click to expand...

It's racism. Plain and simple.

I know this is well trodden subject matter for this forum, and a joke for the rest of the board, but that is the truth.
 
#107
#107
Spartacavolus said:
For arguments sake, if you go up to be mr friendly and nonracist to the wrong individual and you end up dead, would stereotyping have saved your life?
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And what if I go up to be mr friendly and nonracist and I meet a guy who then becomes my best friend who has a sister my age. The girl and I meet, fall in love, and then we become married for 50 years with three beautiful children.

Just as likely to happen as if I am shot because I am white.

You never know.
 
#108
#108
EDIT: It is not inherently racisit. It is a naive or incomplete thought by a community made up in NEOCON's mind.
 
Last edited:
#109
#109
trevols81 said:
It's racism. Plain and simple.

I know this is well trodden subject matter for this forum, and a joke for the rest of the board, but that is the truth.
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If a Chinese dude, a long haired hippie, a black teenager, or any other person that I don't recognize is walking in front of my house at 11 pm, I'm going to be suspicious. I would expect the same to be thought of me in certain neighborhoods. Big deal. Its more about having some common sense and knowing the norms around you.
 
#110
#110
Spartacavolus said:
If a Chinese dude, a long haired hippie, a black teenager, or any other person that I don't recognize is walking in front of my house at 11 pm, I'm going to be suspicious. I would expect the same to be thought of me in certain neighborhoods. Big deal. Its more about having some common sense and knowing the norms around you.
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Little bit different situation don't ya think? That wasn't in your original question.
 
#111
#111
True story...so I grew up on orange county, and my mom lives back east. Several years ago when my mom lived in Jersey City, me and my buddy, white rich kid who is from ca and went to unc came out of my moms brownstone to take the path train to manhattan and go booze. As we walked out, my moms bf was coming in and gave me a stack of cash we chatted for a moment and he went inside. It's raining so we have hoods on. As we cross street we get approached by two guys who ask to see our
Hands. So we stop and the two guys asked in very rude tones why I had my hood on. I laughed and was a smart ass and said can u not see the rain. Then he asks why we stole money from that guy? And I explained I knew him and he gave me money. Then he asked why I was hanging around the neighborhood and i explained why. So they ended up being undercover cops on the lookout for kids robbing some people.
 
#113
#113
Spartacavolus said:
My question was a hypothetical situation to show that common sense should come into play in any situation.
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Yes, but it wasn't a good situation. Where was I at? Was it 11 PM on the streets? Or at the mall in the afternoon?

I'm not going to anyone at 11 PM at night on the streets.
 
#114
#114
I don't really care if this is race related or not. What I do care about is the end result.

At the very least, Zim acted out of gross negligence in leaving his vehicle to trail TM. If the kid was walking down the sidewalk, he could have easily followed him in his vehicle. He could have also pulled up next to him and talked to the kid and assessed the situation. Instead he got out of his vehicle and pursued TM. The kid obviously knew he was being followed. He may also have noticed Zim was carrying. (We don't know and now will never know.) So your being trailed for no other reason than walking home by a complete stranger carrying a gun and you shouldn't be afraid for your life?

No account I've read has Zim ever identifying himself as Neighborhood Watch. TM had no idea who this guy was, what his intentions were, or how dangerous he might be. For the sake of arguement, let's say Zim did break off pursuit(I've heard conflicting reports.).
TM sees his chance to defend himself and takes it. How is the any less "Stand Your Ground" than what Zim and his lawyers are trying to claim? The difference is TM found himself in danger, while Zim put himself in danger. Yes, you could say TM put himself in danger when he attacked, but from what I've heard of the law, that is "Standing Your Ground". Zim's actions directly led to the death of TM. If he had not initiated the foot pursuit, it is highly probable TM is still alive today.

A question for any attorneys, could Zim be charged with negligent homicide? Is there a possible case for it?
 
#115
#115
trevols81 said:
EDIT: It is not inherently racisit. It is a naive or incomplete thought by a community made up in NEOCON's mind.
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to be fair, i hate white poor people as much as I hate poor black people.

i would say i hate poor asian people but they all seem hell bent on actually having a job.
 
#117
#117
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.

911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that.

Zimmerman:
OK.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name?

Zimmerman:
George. He ran.


He followed the kid. That says it all. The Dispatcher told him to stand down and he continued on anyway. He needs to be charged. The kid was half his size and unarmed.



There is NO WAY to justify what he did and anyone who defends this Barney wannabe needs to ask themselves one question.



What if it was your son?
 
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#118
#118
Vols520 said:
True story...so I grew up on orange county, and my mom lives back east. Several years ago when my mom lived in Jersey City, me and my buddy, white rich kid who is from ca and went to unc came out of my moms brownstone to take the path train to manhattan and go booze. As we walked out, my moms bf was coming in and gave me a stack of cash we chatted for a moment and he went inside. It's raining so we have hoods on. As we cross street we get approached by two guys who ask to see our
Hands. So we stop and the two guys asked in very rude tones why I had my hood on. I laughed and was a smart ass and said can u not see the rain. Then he asks why we stole money from that guy? And I explained I knew him and he gave me money. Then he asked why I was hanging around the neighborhood and i explained why. So they ended up being undercover cops on the lookout for kids robbing some people.
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Awesome story man!
 
#119
#119
dduncan4163 said:
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.

911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that.

Zimmerman:
OK.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name?

Zimmerman:
George. He ran.


He followed the kid. That says it all. The Dispatcher told him to stand down and he continued on anyway. He needs to be charged. The kid was half his size and unarmed.



There is NO WAY to justify what he did and anyone who defends this Barney wannabe needs to ask themselves one question.



What if it was your son?
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Sorry to nitpick here, but this seems to be a trend I see in following this case. You said "The dispatcher told him to stand down...", when that is not at all what the dispatcher said. The dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that". To me, there is a difference.

Not taking a shot at you...like I said, just something I've picked up on in several instances.
 
#121
#121
GreatWhiteNorth said:
Sorry to nitpick here, but this seems to be a trend I see in following this case. You said "The dispatcher told him to stand down...", when that is not at all what the dispatcher said. The dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that". To me, there is a difference.

Not taking a shot at you...like I said, just something I've picked up on in several instances.
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What's the difference?

911 dispatchers are trained not to make direct statements like "Don't do that..." during tense and potentially combative situations.

It's no different than a hostage negotiator being trained never to directly say "no" to a hostage taker's demands.
 
#122
#122
Lawrence Wright said:
What's the difference?

911 dispatchers are trained not to make direct statements like "Don't do that..." during tense and potentially combative situations.

It's no different than a hostage negotiator being trained never to directly say "no" to a hostage taker's demands.
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You've seen the Negotiator. One of my favs.
 
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#124
#124
Lawrence Wright said:
What's the difference?

911 dispatchers are trained not to make direct statements like "Don't do that..." during tense and potentially combative situations.

It's no different than a hostage negotiator being trained never to directly say "no" to a hostage taker's demands.
Click to expand...

The difference is just semantics. However, if/when this cases reaches a court of law, those semantics could be an issue.
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#125
#125
Lawrence Wright said:
Anything's possible I guess.

I have a problem believing that Zimmerman would be caught unexpectedly from behind from a guy he thought to be so suspicious he called 911.

If I'm Zimmerman I've got my head on a swivel and calling others on the neighborhood watch team for backup.
Click to expand...

:yes: .
 
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