would you be for a southern country?

#80
#80
BloodRUNZOrange said:
I just was interested in everyones feedback. sense there are oviouse challenges in keeping this country together with our cultural and political differences in this country in the age of information in the 21st century.

would anyone be for trying for a southern confederacy again? would you take someone seriously if a major political figure rallied people to a southern cause?i was just wondering what people thought about somthing like this..

try and take it seriously bc im writing a paper on this and i really would like to hear what people think about this.. thanks!
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No and no. I am an American first and foremost.

It's 100% unlikely and you should spend your time on a subject more worthy.
 
#81
#81
BloodRUNZOrange said:
I just was interested in everyones feedback. sense there are oviouse challenges in keeping this country together with our cultural and political differences in this country in the age of information in the 21st century.

would anyone be for trying for a southern confederacy again?

would you take someone seriously if a major political figure rallied people to a southern cause?

i was just wondering what people thought about somthing like this..

try and take it seriously bc im writing a paper on this and i really would like to hear what people think about this.. thanks!
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You must be talking about Perry wanting Texas to secede from the USA?
 
#82
#82
sjt18 said:
Reduce or eliminate many of the mandated programs.

In many states, the biggest expense is the public school system. IIRC, we as a nation pay around $10,000 per student for that system. A voucher system could perform the same function and likely better for less than half.And by "aid" I assume you mean direct transfer payments, right? I would not look for wealth transfers to be nearly as generous as they now are.

Finally, new boundaries would cause a re-structuring by companies of where profit centers sit.... of where to locate manufacturing and other business locations. Companies have moved to the south and midwest from other areas recently to avoid high taxes and regulations. That would only intensify if federal taxes and restrictions were reduced.

You seriously believe that? Wow. That is VERY unlikely.... but if it occurred... it would not be imposed on individual states. You are WAY too paranoid about this. I probably know alot more of the type of Christian you "fear" than you do... the vast majority are VERY "mind your business/mind my business" types of people. They do not object to you believing whatever it is you want to believe or doing whatever you want to do as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on them and keep your activities to yourself. Show respect and get it.



Of course it would. The bottom line problem we have as a nation now is that too many are being supported by too few. A low tax, pro-business, stable country would attract business rather than pushing it out. Limited or no social programs for able bodied people would provide alot of motivation to work.
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Would love to see your math on this one.
 
#83
#83
utvolpj said:
many were deists and some even atheists who were very careful to keep religion and politics separate. Even the most fanatical among them knew this was the right thing to do. A Southern state would be a step backwards in this regard. And yes, there is very much to fear from officials who would have to use their religion to get elected and owe their people
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WRONG. I dont mean to come off as mean spirited but people just lighty tread over the beliefs of our founders and how integral faith was in creating this nation.I realize they were fleeing a Tyranical government/Church but what your stating is a short sided view and trivializes our Founders and our heritage , like it or not, and is a revisionist Liberal vew of History that has been indoctrinated into us and our kids.

The founders certainly recognized the right to choose Your religion/no-religion but don't act as though most weren't Christians and this country wasn't bulit on Judeo-Christian principles, even if it doesn't fit what you/I have been taught. Look for yourself, at these mens words not someone elses descriptions of who/what they were/believed.

Many states had their own State Religion by the way., in fact, The Holy Bible (during the period 1760-1805), was the source for 34% of all quotations cited by our Founding Fathers. After reviewing an estimated 15,000 items, including newspaper articles, pamphlets, books, monographs, etc., Professors Donald S. Lutz and Charles S. Hyneman, in their work "The Relative Influence of European Writers on Late Eighteenth-Century American Political Thought" published in the American Political Science Review, revealed that the Bible, especially the book of Deuteronomy, contributed 34% of all quotations used by our Founding Fathers.

The other main sources cited include: Baron Charles Montesquieu 8.3%, Sir William Blackstone 7.9%, John Locke 2.9%, David Hume 2.7%, Plutarch 1.5%, Beccaria 1.5%, Trenchard and Gordon 1.4%, Delolme 1.4%, Samuel von Pufendorf 1.3%, Cicero 1.2%, Hugo Grotius .9%, Shakespeare .8%, Vattel .5%, etc. These additional sources as well took 60% of their quotes directly from the Bible. Direct and indirect citations combined reveal that 94% of all quotations referenced by the Founding Fathers are derived from the Bible."
I could list pages of quotes from our founding fathers but it would just be skimmed over so i offer a few and an interesting video for any interested in learning real American History.

What our Founders had to say about the Bible?
[/
B] "The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the
word of God.... Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts." John Jay (1784)

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God." Gouverneur Morris (1791)

"[W]here is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths...?" George Washington

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."George Washington

"The blessed Religion revealed in the Word of God will remain an eternal and awful monument to prove that the best Institutions may be abused by human depravity; and that they may even, in some instances, be made subservient to the vilest of purposes."
B]George Washington (1796)

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams (1798)
"[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush (1806)

"The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband."
Thomas Jefferson

---These are a small few examples, do they sound like Diest or Atheist, no quite the contrary i realize that some were, by the way, but the majority where Christians in some sense.

*****When studying American history notice if the book has many footnotes"quotes" when it descibes a person. The footnotes represent words that the person said or wrote down not a Liberal Academics skeweed perception of him/her and the agenda they are trying to foster.

Regardless of your beliefs/non-beliefs can we have an open honest discussion about our forefathers and the principals that this country was founded upon?

--- David Barton - Wallbuilders - YouTube
--- Is America A Christian Nation? (1 of 5)
--- Is America A Christian Nation? (2 of 5)
--- Is America A Christian Nation? (3 of 5)
--- Is America A Christian Nation? (4 of 5)
--- Is America A Christian Nation? (5 of 5)
 
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#84
#84
Could I ship all of the religious crazies from Iowa to the south?
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#85
#85
then why doesn't the Constitution mention that importance? Adams was around while it was being written (I alluded to him in my post) yet didn't feel the need to insert that little tidbit? Why, if the US is truly a Christian nation, did they make sure to keep them apart?

There's also a reason the bible was the most quoted as it was about the only book most had access to
 
#86
#86
utvolpj said:
then why doesn't the Constitution mention that importance? Adams was around while it was being written (I alluded to him in my post) yet didn't feel the need to insert that little tidbit? Why, if the US is truly a Christian nation, did they make sure to keep them apart?

There's also a reason the bible was the most quoted as it was about the only book most had access to
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The founders understood a "persons" free choice and that it wasn't the governments role to force you to worship, or keep you from worshipping either whatever/whomever you see fit.

Im not trying to tear you down just interjecting the real quotes and ideas these men Spoke and wrote down. Why can't you accept that.

Are you really going to trivialize the founding of the countries and its principals and say the only reason they used the Bible was because there wasn't a Vanity Fair magazine published yet, weak?
 
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#88
#88
MUR73 said:
The founders understood a "persons" free choice and that it wasn't the governments role to force you to worship, or keep you from worshipping either whatever/whomever you see fit.

Im not trying to tear you down just interjecting the real quotes and ideas these men Spoke and wrote down. Why can't you accept that.

Are you really going to trivialize the founding of the countries and its principals and say the only reason they used the Bible was because there wasn't a Vanity Fair magazine published yet, weak?
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the bible being the only book most people had was a big deal. Using things from it was an easy way to get the point across to more people.

However, they did not see fit to put any of that into the laws of this country and in fact pretty much did the opposite.

What I can accept is that while many of the founders were Christians they did not intend to form a Christian nation. Their personal views/writings on religion don't really mean much unless they are actually interpreting the Constitution.
 
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#91
#91
What's everyone's take on the Founders indicating that our basic rights come from our Creator?
 
#94
#94
There is supposed to be separation between church and state...I'm confused by the current argument.
 
#97
#97
Did you notice that they had these lying around with the Bible too, what luck, right?!?
The other main sources cited include: Baron Charles Montesquieu 8.3%, Sir William Blackstone 7.9%, John Locke 2.9%, David Hume 2.7%, Plutarch 1.5%, Beccaria 1.5%, Trenchard and Gordon 1.4%, Delolme 1.4%, Samuel von Pufendorf 1.3%, Cicero 1.2%, Hugo Grotius .9%, Shakespeare .8%, Vattel .5%, etc.
 
#99
#99
MUR73 said:
Did you notice that they had these lying around with the Bible too, what luck, right?!?
The other main sources cited include: Baron Charles Montesquieu 8.3%, Sir William Blackstone 7.9%, John Locke 2.9%, David Hume 2.7%, Plutarch 1.5%, Beccaria 1.5%, Trenchard and Gordon 1.4%, Delolme 1.4%, Samuel von Pufendorf 1.3%, Cicero 1.2%, Hugo Grotius .9%, Shakespeare .8%, Vattel .5%, etc.
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u lost me?

The baron cannot grant freedom
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#100
#100
volinbham said:
What's everyone's take on the Founders indicating that our basic rights come from our Creator?
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To me, that is the cornerstone of Freedom. We are all created equal, it is man that creates divisions/classes within Race & Gender.
 
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