Yeah, the days of abusing the Bible to justify violence are long gone

#51
#51
VolsSportsFan said:
This is stupid...every belief system has abused teachings. Millions have been killed in the name of atheism....what's the point of this thread. To pick out some morons misuing the Bible?
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Interesting. Could you elaborate?
 
#52
#52
VolInMn said:
I'm not arguing that the NT says anything about violence against non believers. I'm arguing that the crusades were an example of violent religious extremism, just as today's extreme muslims are.
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My point exactly... why are you trying to compare something that happened ~ 1,000 years ago with modern day beliefs? There were many (or even most) cultures 1,000 years ago that pillaged and destroyed villages to increase their wealth and expand their reach.

The relevant question is how many other cultures and/or religions (besides Muslim) believe this should be done today?
 
#53
#53
IBlvNTmWrk said:
My point exactly... why are you trying to compare something that happened ~ 1,000 years ago with modern day beliefs? There were many (or even most) cultures 1,000 years ago that pillaged and destroyed villages to increase their wealth and expand their reach.

The relevant question is how many other cultures and/or religions (besides Muslim) believe this should be done today?
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Nations, not religious sects, did that 1,000 years ago to expand reach and wealth. But I digress.

Since you're against religious violence in the present, might I also assume you're against religious violence that occurred in the past?
 
#55
#55
rjd970 said:
Interesting. Could you elaborate?
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He can't without mentioning some other school of thought besides atheism (communism, social darwinism, etc). It isn't possible to believe in killing for the sake of not believing. It's oxymoronic.
 
#57
#57
VolInMn said:
Apples to oranges? They're both examples of religious extremism, no matter when they happened.
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Really? So I should be able to make the same analogy to science, astronomy, etc?

- the earth is flat
- the earth is stationary and the center of the universe, and everything else revolves around it
- or better yet, how about spontaneous generation; the belief that life arose from inanimate matter (e.g. maggots come spontaneously from rotting meat).

So were all the scientists, physicists, astronomers, and people in general who believed these things just "extremists"? Or... is it more likely that these beliefs were just more common to the time period in which they occurred. When something happens, and the common practices/belief(s) at that time, certainly is relevant.

If you still believe that it's not, then we can also discuss crucifictions, slavery, women's right to vote, and many other archaic beliefs that were more common than extreme at some point in history.
 
#58
#58
VolInMn said:
Nations, not religious sects, did that 1,000 years ago to expand reach and wealth. But I digress.

Since you're against religious violence in the present, might I also assume you're against religious violence that occurred in the past?
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Yes you may... and you'd be correct. However, if I lived in the past my opinion may be different. Are you saying that you're opinion on something has never changed?
 
#59
#59
VolInMn said:
Nations, not religious sects, did that 1,000 years ago to expand reach and wealth. But I digress.

Since you're against religious violence in the present, might I also assume you're against religious violence that occurred in the past?
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I get your point and agree for the most part but it is simply undeniable that right now the world and it's differing people and religions are coming together and co-existing, if not living peacefully, side by side. There is one exception though, everywhere in the world where Muslims come in contact with those who believe differently there is conflict. This does not happen by chance, the nature of Islam, or at the very least the nature of many who are in control, are perpetuating the problems Islam has with the rest of the world in general.
 
#61
#61
IPorange said:
He can't without mentioning some other school of thought besides atheism (communism, social darwinism, etc). It isn't possible to believe in killing for the sake of not believing. It's oxymoronic.
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There have been very few, if any, wars fought for religion alone. Religion may have played a part but other reasons such as economic resources, land, played just as much of a role, if not more so, than religion.
 
#62
#62
rjd970 said:
What does this matter? Augustine and Aquinas believed in the torture and execution of heretics. Are we to assume they never read the Sermon on the Mount?
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Correct, however my point is that the Qu'ran specifically says to do these things, where as the Bible does not. There are nuts everywhere. But to say islam is a religion of peace is absurd

VolInMn said:
I'm not arguing that the NT says anything about violence against non believers. I'm arguing that the crusades were an example of violent religious extremism, just as today's extreme muslims are.
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And i will agree with that, however my point was that Islam calls for that type of action where as the Bible does not.
KB5252 said:
There have been very few, if any, wars fought for religion alone. Religion may have played a part but other reasons such as economic resources, land, played just as much of a role, if not more so, than religion.
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exactly, the crusades were an attemp to push back the arab advances into that area, they were also an attempt to help aleviate the constant attacks on constantinople.
 
#64
#64
#65
#65
VolInMn said:
The old testament certainly did. But I agree that the NT is not the same animal.
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right, and this was a basically a Christianity is just as violent as Islam discussion, and the "rules of conduct" for Christianity are established in the New Testament. The Old Testament is a history, which states the prophesy of Jesus, and establishes his lineage in accordance with the prophesy
 
#66
#66
utvolpj said:
but I've been told here that Christians who do it are on the fringe (and not true believers) while it's a requirement in other religions. How could this happen to the religion of peace and tolerance?
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ah hem,


once again, it is written is the Qu'ran to do so, so they are not exteremist, they are following their murderous savage religion. It IS NOT written in the New Testament, nor is in any of Jesus's teachings. There is even a verse that says that there will be people that do things in his name that is against what he taught.
 
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#69
#69
nice fix. The irony of one religion making fun of another is amazing
 
#70
#70
utvolpj said:
but I've been told here that Christians who do it are on the fringe (and not true believers) while it's a requirement in other religions. How could this happen to the religion of peace and tolerance?
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sucker question?
 
#74
#74
utvolpj said:
nice fix. The irony of one religion making fun of another is amazing
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haha thanks,

I can see your point.

Its just that in this day, everyone is so worried about being PC, and offending people. Well in this fear of offending someone it can mask the truth. Look at Islamic states, look how their people are treated etc. People start to overlook what Islam actually is so they dont offend anyone. I am completely against a religious state, it is nothing but a bad idea. However the facts need to be laid out on the table correctly. Because it just seems that people are demonizing Christianity and glorifying islam,
 
#75
#75
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
However the facts need to be laid out on the table correctly. Because it just seems that people are demonizing Christianity and glorifying islam,
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facts? The fact is the vast majority of followers of all religions are peaceful. However some people choose to take a small minority and say it represents the entire group. It's stupid and childish but it gets posted here every single day.
 
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