Yeah, the days of abusing the Bible to justify violence are long gone

#101
#101
probably a good idea if you're an unarmed, peaceful person to not piss off the lunatic with an AK
 
#102
#102
You'd think, though, if all muslims viewed it as their duty to kill non-believers, the 2+ million muslims in the US would be wreaking a lot more havoc.
 
#103
#103
utvolpj said:
any killing by a Muslim is attributed to their religion. Christians don't get the same treatment (guess their PR dept is better)

stories such as the OP and the news the past couple of days are starting to come out. Will be interesting to see how they're viewed
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are you really trying to argue that a christian man say killing his wife is the same thing as a muslim blowing himself up to protest american comercialism?
 
#104
#104
droski said:
are you really trying to argue that a christian man say killing his wife is the same thing as a muslim blowing himself up to protest american comercialism?
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You got me, that's exactly what I meant.

to use your example just assume both men killed their wives. Which one is more likely to have his religion pointed out in the paper?
 
#105
#105
VolInMn said:
You'd think, though, if all muslims viewed it as their duty to kill non-believers, the 2+ million muslims in the US would be wreaking a lot more havoc.
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i think the fbi and cia who regurally monitor mosques in this country would disagree they aren't wreaking a lot of havoc.
 
#106
#106
utvolpj said:
probably a good idea if you're an unarmed, peaceful person to not piss off the lunatic with an AK
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Absolutely. In America and other developed countries we have officers appointed by the governments, both local and federal, who enforce the laws and do their best to reign in violent and threatening people and groups. Either Muslim countries are unable or unwilling to do this. IMO it is the latter, either because they, (government and police officers or what have you) either condone or believe that the rage directed outward at westerners in particular serves a purpose beneficial to them.

I believe that cases of empathy or outright agreement toward the extremists views by percentage of the population are much higher in the Muslim world than it is in modern western civilizations. I think there is enough evidence to support this view. I would add though that in certain countries, like Turkey, Egypt and others where things are more structured these cases are much more rare than in underdeveloped nations which lends credence to the view that much of the animosity is bred from a lack education and governmental structure, and the harsh conditions under which many of those people live.
 
#107
#107
VolInMn said:
You'd think, though, if all muslims viewed it as their duty to kill non-believers, the 2+ million muslims in the US would be wreaking a lot more havoc.
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This post is addressed to some extent in my last post.
 
#108
#108
pretty sure you're right KB. Keep the masses poor and stupid (and the country essentially without real laws) and they'll buy any crap you want to sell them.
 
#109
#109
utvolpj said:
You got me, that's exactly what I meant.

to use your example just assume both men killed their wives. Which one is more likely to have his religion pointed out in the paper?
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but one is done in the name of religion and the other is not.

i supposed the muslim is more likely to be mentioned, but i don't think most people think that muslims that kill their wives are doing it because they are muslim.
 
#110
#110
I think the "few nutball extremists" theory takes a bit of a beating when heads of state sound just like the extremists. Moreover, I think there's a fairly big divide in how violence is addressed by the "rest" of the followers of said religion. For instance, If somebody claiming to be a Christian blows up a building, say an abortion clinic, throw a rock in any direction and you're likely to hit a Christian condemning the action. Comparitively speaking things seem awfully quiet when an Islamic extremist takes similar action.

Look, Christians take umbrage when, say, Andres Serrano gets $15K and an award for submerging a plastic crucifix in some of his own urine and calling it "art". Conversely, make some unflattering depictions of a certain other religious person and you have, quite literally, an international incident, that included setting fire to the Danish embassies (the cartoon's country of origin) in Syria, Lebanon and Iran.

I also don't understand the idea of somehow trying to mitigate Islamic actions by throwing out references to the Crusades. We're really going to argue that "Well they did stuff 700 years ago!" as a defense to murderous actions now in the 21st century? I just can't make that connection.
 
#111
#111
hndog609 said:
I also don't understand the idea of somehow trying to mitigate Islamic actions by throwing out references to the Crusades. We're really going to argue that "Well they did stuff 700 years ago!" as a defense to murderous actions now in the 21st century? I just can't make that connection.
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You have me all wrong. I'm in no way justifying what's happening with religious extremism, muslim or otherwise. I was simply pointing out that the crusades were also an example of religious extremism. If one condemns one, one must condemn both.
 
#112
#112
There was a time when the nations of the middle east were the most advanced nations of their time, their knowledge and abilities were on par if not unrivaled by any in the world at that time. A big reason for this was the free exchange of ideas and acceptance of new thoughts from others around them. This was also a very large reason for their advances into regions where they eventually came into conflict with Europeans, though by this time their views and acceptance of other cultures had become let's say, short fused. Then the Crusades started, not something I would condone, certainly not in keeping with the teachings of Christ but lets face it, there were terrible acts from both sides and the Crusaders were able to do what they did because the middle east was in a period of decline that they have never really recovered from. Partly because of their religious views and interactions with other cultures. Of course this is just my opinion.
 
#113
#113
utvolpj said:
facts? The fact is the vast majority of followers of all religions are peaceful. However some people choose to take a small minority and say it represents the entire group. It's stupid and childish but it gets posted here every single day.
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utvolpj said:
maybe it's just that I personally don't believe that. I just think they happen to be more vocal
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lawgator1 said:
Its not a competition. My point simply was that any religion can be, and in fact has been, manipulated to justify a lot of really bad things. That we live in an Age where Islam is the main culprit is hardly grounds for either looking the other way when Christians do it or concluding that Islam is inherently at war with everyone else.
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For those who want to argue that Christians and Muslims are somewhat equal please ask yourself the following question.

Which situation do you think presents the most risk... walking around with the Qur'an and preaching it's writings in the U.S., or walking around with the Bible and preaching Chrisitianity in any Muslim country. I can't recall too many Muslims being arrested (or worse) for carrying around the Qur'an in this country.
 
#114
#114
VolInMn said:
You have me all wrong. I'm in no way justifying what's happening with religious extremism, muslim or otherwise. I was simply pointing out that the crusades were also an example of religious extremism. If one condemns one, one must condemn both.
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Oh, actually I wasn't calling you or anyone in particular out with that part of my post, just that I'd heard the arguement before and couldn't make much sense of it. For my part condemning something (the Crusades) that long after the fact as compared to condemning current action is kind of a non sequitur. Quite literally that was a different world then where people believed all kinds of stuff we'd consider absurd/ignorant/barbaric now that had nothing to do with religion.

The Crusades are history while Islamic extremist violence is right here right now. I haven't heard it confirmed yet but would anyone really be even a little surprised if the two Russian suicide bombers aren't Chechen Muslims? People can, indeed pretty much must, accept the idea there are nut jobs out there, religiously affiliated or not. This is a volume issue and at some point "a few nut jobs" just doesn't seem to be sufficient explanation.
 
#115
#115
T-TownVol said:
I am going to ask you to elaborate, on what your purpose of this thread, before I comment.
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Here is ACLG's purpose in a nutshell.

"We have battled in America since the century's turn to bring to nothing...all Christian influences and we are succeeding. You must work until officials of city, county, and state will not think twice before they pounce upon religious groups as public enemies. (there must) be a...foaming hatred of religion...a belief that Christian practice is vicious, bad, insanity causing, publicly hated and intolerable."
(Red Communist Textbook on Psychopolitics)
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BeecherVol said:
Nice spin LG.

Guess I can knock off a few of my neighbors in the name Obama, and liberalism gets a bad rap for it..
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Wonder what ACLG's opinion of Idi Amin is??

The above link is to an islamic apology for the ruthless murdering canable, I guess the memory hole people have been hard at work since I last googled amin.

kptvol said:
What happens in the Congo is really representative of the world in the 21st century.
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I read a book in about '60 or '61 that was published in the '54 to '57 era which was written by an American who had spend 35 years in the foreign service, mostly in Africa and South East Asia.

He made two main points.

1. When colonial powers withdraw from Africa and independance is given to those new countries, the borders should be changed from European drawn lines to traditional tribal lines, otherwise there would be power struggles between various groups for political control.

2. DO NOT become involved in Vietnam without Ho Chi Mihn as an ally.

Too bad he was ignored.

g8terh8ter_eric said:
Well, based off of what they used, then they should blame the Jews.
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Blame religion, that's the ticket!!

Oldvol75 said:
Wheres your "out rage" over Christian's being murdered in your own beloved state of Florida?

CHRISTIANS MURDERED IN FLORIDA AFTER WITNESSING, STORY OVERLOOKED
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Then there were the approximately 30 black muslim inspired murders by the yahweh ben yahweh group in Florida. The guy that inspired that only served eleven years, under that sort of thinking Charlie Manson should have been released long ago.

Ask ACLG is he has any opinion on Jamaat ul-Fuqra??

This would seem to be more attention grabbing than tribal warfare in cental Africa which has been ongoing since man first invented the spear.
 
#116
#116
My view:

Is Christianity and Islam the same when it comes to violence? No, Islam is obviously worse.

Does this change the fact Christianity can be viewed violently? No.

If Christians kill in the name of the Bible do we assume they aren't real Christians? No more than some Muslims claim those that behead and terrorize aren't real Muslims.
 
#117
#117
VolInMn said:
You have me all wrong. I'm in no way justifying what's happening with religious extremism, muslim or otherwise. I was simply pointing out that the crusades were also an example of religious extremism. If one condemns one, one must condemn both.
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VolInMn, you are a christian. I'm placing you in this category. Because anyone can claim to be Christian, so I'm claiming you.
 
#119
#119
Obama is a small gvmnt, capitalist, that believes if you work hard, and make something of yourself the gvmnt' should let you keep it.
 
#123
#123
VolInMn said:
I'm sorry, did I label someone as something in this thread and not remember doing it?
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Not at all. he just used you to make his point.

Anybody, can do anything, in the name of whatever they choose. Its that easy.

I made the statement earlier in the thread, that I must be included in this group, because I am a christian as well. Just haven't thought about a mass murderin lately.
 
#124
#124
Any Christian who tries to justify violence, of any kind, as part of God's plan or path for his or herself, is VERY misinformed about what his plan really is and probably isn't the most sane person to start with. Also, I challenge anyone on this board to find me a passage in the New Testament, which is where we Christian's are in our beliefs, that condones any type of violence as being justified. If people that claim to be Christian EVER try and use the Old Testament as fodder for violence, then they are severely misinformed to being with and don't understand what their place is based on Biblical standards.
 
#125
#125
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Any Christian who tries to justify violence, of any kind, as part of God's plan or path for his or herself, is VERY misinformed about what his plan really is and probably isn't the most sane person to start with. Also, I challenge anyone on this board to find me a passage in the New Testament, which is where we Christian's are in our beliefs, that condones any type of violence as being justified. If people that claim to be Christian EVER try and use the Old Testament as fodder for violence, then they are severely misinformed to being with and don't understand what their place is based on Biblical standards.
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Theres not anywhere in the NT testament where violence is practiced. Those that use "Christianity" as their claim are "wolves in sheeps clothing".
 
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