Yes, It Was a Coup Attempt. Here’s Why.

[Vol Main]

Then go to sleep for a long damn time

Tell that to your ignorant damnself and take your own advice.

 

[Weezer]

The Vice President overturning the election would have been a coup. Trump wanted the Vice President to overturn the election. Trump took significant steps towards achieving his goal. This isn’t just a matter of him saying something stupid.

The idea that any American President tried to install himself as an unelected dictator is objectively bad, but you can’t wait to explain it away as “he said something stupid.”

Reductionist **** like that is why people lump you in with the Trumpkins. And probably why nobody criticizes (or praises) Biden, here.

The only opinion in this discussion that’s interesting to me is Velo because there’s an expectation that it’s got some nuance and is not going to be somebody finding the most convenient way to excuse this or change the subject.

The rest of you don’t have any credibility left after the last four years. It’s pure entertainment value to see the nonsense that you come up with to rationalize objectively bad things that your tribalism forces you to rationalize. If the most you can muster about this is “just his freedom of speech,” then I’m not sure what use I’m supposed to have for your opinion about Afghanistan or inflation or unemployment benefits.

The fact that he didn’t use any official authority, such as the military, is the lone decent point that’s been made. I don’t know who made it first, but it’s a fair critique.

Unless he mentioned it before this page, then I made the point first. There is zero proof that Trump used any of his Presidential powers to try and overturn the election. Zero. That is not a coup. Saying he wanted the VP to overturn it does not make it a coup. And yes, even the POTUS is allowed to say stupid ****. You don't like Trump. Fine, as a person, I don't like Trump. That type of personality should not be elected. But he was. So how did he actually do as President? The truth is he ran his mouth too much, played too hard with divisive politics, and he wouldn't stay off Twitter. But most of his policies were not that bad. I know it would pain you or any one of our left leaning posters to admit the reality of that, but as far as actions, not words, go, Trump was not a complete screw up. People hate him for his obnoxiousness, not the actual job he did as POTUS.

It's probably not going to happen, but I keep hoping both parties find better in the next election. No more Trump. No more Biden. No Kamala Harris, no Hillary Clinton, no far left or far right candidates. Give America at least a decent choice.

 

[RockyTop85]

Unless he mentioned it before this page, then I made the point first. There is zero proof that Trump used any of his Presidential powers to try and overturn the election. Zero. That is not a coup. Saying he wanted the VP to overturn it does not make it a coup. And yes, even the POTUS is allowed to say stupid ****. You don't like Trump. Fine, as a person, I don't like Trump. That type of personality should not be elected. But he was. So how did he actually do as President? The truth is he ran his mouth too much, played too hard with divisive politics, and he wouldn't stay off Twitter. But most of his policies were not that bad. I know it would pain you or any one of our left leaning posters to admit the reality of that, but as far as actions, not words, go, Trump was not a complete screw up. People hate him for his obnoxiousness, not the actual job he did as POTUS.

It's probably not going to happen, but I keep hoping both parties find better in the next election. No more Trump. No more Biden. No Kamala Harris, no Hillary Clinton, no far left or far right candidates. Give America at least a decent choice.

If Pence had said “I’m not counting the electors from these ‘contested’ states. Trump wins a majority if the remainder. Trump is President.” Is that a coup?

The bottom half of that first paragraph is almost completely false as to me. I think he’s a horrible person, but he was a **** President irrespective of his personality.

 

[Weezer]

If Pence had said “I’m not counting the electors from these ‘contested’ states. Trump wins a majority if the remainder. Trump is President.” Is that a coup?

Did Pence ever once give the impression that he would not live up to his duty as VP?

IF Pence had violated his duty and oath of office, yes, that could have been called a coup. But this isn't about ifs, this is about reality. The reality is that Pence carried out the duties of his office and never once gave anyone reason to question that he would. When we start giving more credence to "ifs" than we do reality, then we're truly ****ed.

 

[RockyTop85]

Did Pence ever once give the impression that he would not live up to his duty as VP?

IF Pence had violated his duty and oath of office, yes, that could have been called a coup. But this isn't about ifs, this is about reality. The reality is that Pence carried out the duties of his office and never once gave anyone reason to question that he would. When we start giving more credence to "ifs" than we do reality, then we're truly ****ed.

Thanks for answering the question.

So given all of this equivocation about “ifs” did you ever go back and read the post that I linked about the memo, the speech transcript, and Michael Luttig’s thread about advising Pence?

Have you read Dan Quayle’s quotes in Woodward’s book?

 

[Weezer]

Thanks for answering the question.

So given all of this equivocation about “ifs” did you ever go back and read the post that I linked about the memo, the speech transcript, and Michael Luttig’s thread about advising Pence?

Have you read Dan Quayle’s quotes in Woodward’s book?

You're focusing on things that could have happened but did not happen. I'm focusing on reality. Who said what means a lot less to me than who did what. It's why my opinion of Trump as a President is different than Trump as a person. He's an awful human being. And not even the first awful human being to be POTUS. But surprisingly, being an awful human being doesn't necessarily equivocate to be an awful POTUS. I didn't vote for him and I want him to go away, but what could have happened and what did happen are two different things. As a lawyer, I think you'd be more in tune with the importance of actuality compared to possibility.

But to answer your question outright, I started to read it and quickly lost interest. We're obviously coming at this from two very different directions. What Trump may have wanted to happen and what actually happened are two very different things and I just don't feel the need to go into possibilities when we only need to deal with reality. There was no coup. There's not even enough there for me to call it an attempted coup. For me to even consider it an attempt, Trump would have had to use his Presidential powers, which he did not.

 

[FLVOL_79]

You overplayed your hand here. If you want to claim that those white trash losers were harmless, that's fine. However, the building wasn't empty. The Capitol incursion on January 6th was successful in disrupting and delaying the electoral college vote roll call and certification (for about 8 hours). That was exactly what Trump wanted to happen, as well.

Ironically, there is even video of one of the biggest January 6th riot sympathizers, Rep. Andrew Clyde (GA), assisting Capitol security officers in barricading a door leading into the House Chamber. Putting up barricades as a counter to forcible entry is not action typically undertaken without at least some degree of physical danger at hand. Was Rep. Andrew Clyde also one of the "easily frightened dingleberries?"

Sure.

 

[RockyTop85]

You're focusing on things that could have happened but did not happen. I'm focusing on reality. Who said what means a lot less to me than who did what. It's why my opinion of Trump as a President is different than Trump as a person. He's an awful human being. And not even the first awful human being to be POTUS. But surprisingly, being an awful human being doesn't necessarily equivocate to be an awful POTUS. I didn't vote for him and I want him to go away, but what could have happened and what did happen are two different things. As a lawyer, I think you'd be more in tune with the importance of actuality compared to possibility.

But to answer your question outright, I started to read it and quickly lost interest. We're obviously coming at this from two very different directions. What Trump may have wanted to happen and what actually happened are two very different things and I just don't feel the need to go into possibilities when we only need to deal with reality. There was no coup. There's not even enough there for me to call it an attempted coup. For me to even consider it an attempt, Trump would have had to use his Presidential powers, which he did not.

I’ve never tried it myself, but I hear it’s always good to admit that you ignored facts that might run contrary to your preconceptions in a post where you repeatedly tout the virtues of “dealing with reality.”

 

[Weezer]

I’ve never tried it myself, but I hear it’s always good to admit that you ignored facts that might run contrary to your preconceptions in a post where you repeatedly tout the virtues of “dealing with reality.”

Yes, reality is what actually happened. Biden was elected and is currently screwing up the country, yet here we are still discussing Trump months after he left office. It's a shell game. Keep talking about things that could have happened but didn't so we can avoid talking about what IS happening.

Simple question, did Trump use his Presidential powers to overturn the election?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Yes, reality is what actually happened. Biden was elected and is currently screwing up the country, yet here we are still discussing Trump months after he left office. It's a shell game. Keep talking about things that could have happened but didn't so we can avoid talking about what IS happening.

Simple question, did Trump use his Presidential powers to overturn the election?

He clearly tried. Trump publicly pressured Pence to cast aside electoral college votes from a legally chosen set of electors, in states which Trump needed to win. Trump even said that Pence just needed "to have some courage" in order to do this. The purpose of that would have been to send the electoral college vote back to the Republican-controlled state legislatures of those select states, who would choose a faithless set of electors that would vote for Trump.

Of course, that's Unconstitutional and never had a chance... but should that excuse Trump's unethical conduct? This can not be allowed to become an acceptable way for sitting Presidents to respond to a re-election defeat. It would pose a threat to the democratic system of elections in the United States. There is no way in hell that Republicans would approve of Biden doing the same thing in 2024.

 

[Septic]

It wasn’t and still isn’t a coup as far as I’m concerned. Maybe run back to the bathroom and think it over?

Lotta folks going to jail over what was just a disagreement in the gift shop.

 

[Septic]

Simple question, did Trump use his Presidential powers to overturn the election?

Those powers don't exist. He checked.

 

[Weezer]

He clearly tried. Trump publicly pressured Pence to cast aside electoral college votes from a legally chosen set of electors, in states which Trump needed to win. Trump even said that Pence just needed "to have some courage" in order to do this. The purpose of that would have been to send the electoral college vote back to the Republican-controlled state legislatures of those select states, who would choose a faithless set of electors that would vote for Trump.

Of course, that's Unconstitutional and never had a chance... but should that excuse Trump's unethical conduct? This can not be allowed to become an acceptable way for sitting Presidents to respond to a re-election defeat. It would pose a threat to the democratic system of elections in the United States. There is no way in hell that Republicans would approve of Biden doing the same thing in 2024.

That's not using his Presidential powers.

 

[Weezer]

Those powers don't exist. He checked.

So no, he didn't use his Presidential powers to overturn the election.

 

[Septic]

Still don't think it's a coup, and you dodged acknowledging the Biden leg humpers. Why is that?

Why do you keep deflecting and redirecting to Joe the idiot in a conversation about Trump and Jan. 6?

 

[Septic]

So no, he didn't use his Presidential powers to overturn the election.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. He used his influence over his cult to instigate, there is no "power" instilled in the office of the POTUS to overturn an election. Again, he checked.

 

[Weezer]

Why do you keep deflecting and redirecting to Joe the idiot in a conversation about Trump and Jan. 6?

Why are we still discussing Trump months after he left office? He doesn't deserve the attention. He's no longer President, and hopefully never will be again. Trump is also an idiot, one with an ego, but it wasn't a coup.

 

[Septic]

Why are we still discussing Trump months after he left office? He doesn't deserve the attention. He's no longer President, and hopefully never will be again. Trump is also an idiot, one with an ego, but it wasn't a coup.

More redirection from the topic at hand. He undermined a pillar of our republic by sewing doubt in our election system. He continues to do it and his cult followers still look to him as the leader of the party.

he doesn't deserve it, agreed - but his stench still lingers and influences politics. You're right, it wasn't a coup - but it was a bad attempt at one.

 

[BowlBrother85]

You're focusing on things that could have happened but did not happen. I'm focusing on reality. Who said what means a lot less to me than who did what. It's why my opinion of Trump as a President is different than Trump as a person. He's an awful human being. And not even the first awful human being to be POTUS. But surprisingly, being an awful human being doesn't necessarily equivocate to be an awful POTUS. I didn't vote for him and I want him to go away, but what could have happened and what did happen are two different things. As a lawyer, I think you'd be more in tune with the importance of actuality compared to possibility.

But to answer your question outright, I started to read it and quickly lost interest. We're obviously coming at this from two very different directions. What Trump may have wanted to happen and what actually happened are two very different things and I just don't feel the need to go into possibilities when we only need to deal with reality. There was no coup. There's not even enough there for me to call it an attempted coup. For me to even consider it an attempt, Trump would have had to use his Presidential powers, which he did not.

There is such a thing as criminal intent ...

.... and while he was a sitting President, Trump applied pressure to a Secretary of State (Raffensperger) to decertify his own election. That definitely was abusing the power of his office..

 

[Weezer]

More redirection from the topic at hand. He undermined a pillar of our republic by sewing doubt in our election system. He continues to do it and his cult followers still look to him as the leader of the party.

he doesn't deserve it, agreed - but his stench still lingers and influences politics. You're right, it wasn't a coup - but it was a bad attempt at one.

Politicians continually undermine pillars of our republic. It's not new. Plenty of doubt was sewn in our election system in 2016, should we still have a thread dedicated to Hillary?

 

[luthervol]

Then don't move to Texas. That seems like a simple enough solution.

No problem there. Just saw 5 minutes ago where GA is looking at abortion law legislation. I hope they don't make me move out of the state.
After all, if you don't like where you are, move somewhere better. Amiright?

 

[luthervol]

I don't agree with it but there are any number of solutions. The most likely solution will be that the abortion law (I presume that's what you are referring to) likely won't survive court challenge. Even if it doesn't you can choose from 49 other states and still retain all the benefits of US citizenship.

True. I just hate when state and local governments try to take away my freedoms. Luckily, the federal government is oftentimes there to stop them.

 

[luthervol]

Do you think people who like Trump is going to change their mind for what you've stated? For what, to vote for Biden? Biden is worse than Jimmy Carter.

Just moving the needle.
Carter was so far ahead of the times, the country couldn't couldn't cope.
I don't think that is Biden's problem.

 

[UT_VOLS13]

No problem there. Just saw 5 minutes ago where GA is looking at abortion law legislation. I hope they don't make me move out of the state.
After all, if you don't like where you are, move somewhere better. Amiright?

You won't, no matter what they do!

 

[Septic]

Politicians continually undermine pillars of our republic. It's not new. Plenty of doubt was sewn in our election system in 2016, should we still have a thread dedicated to Hillary?

Between Joe, other "politicians" and now Hillary, you're working overtime to redirect the conversation at hand. Also, pretty sure we had lots of threads about Hillary.