19 Year Old Dies After Denial From Transplant List For Trace THC

#351
#351
bigdaddy said:
No, double lung transplants have a high mobidity mortality rate.
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Lol!! You're going to have to show proof that several months of your body slowly getting weaker and dying because you were denied being put on the list DIDN'T play a role in his death.

kiddiedoc said:
Question for those who still refuse to understand anything about transplant risks, candidate screening, etc:

Have you ever smoked or seen someone smoke pot and then go into a horrendous coughing spell? Yeah? Well, that's not good for transplanted organs.

It's amazing all the "experts" that like to show up when a story emerges involving MJ. No, it is not linked to a bunch of long-term serious medical issues (including cancer). No, it does not have as severe medical consequences as a number of both illegal and legal drugs. Yes, it is linked to higher rates of mental illness. Yes, it can have potent intoxicating effects that can be dangerous when driving, etc. Yes, it causes acute respiratory inflammation when smoked. Yes, it can become habit-forming and addictive.

Those are the facts.
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Coughing fits while smoking weed only happen in people who don't know what they're doing. This argument is mostly moot though given that there are other ways to consume THC that don't involve smoking it. Had this kid been consuming edibles, or even vaping rather than smoking weed he'd still have been denied being put on the list.
 
#352
#352
Weezer said:
Now, my problem with all of these studies is the vast majority are done by people who have never smoked weed. they form opinions on something they've never done, and the medicinal effects are overlooked.

The liver processes the vast majority of the medicines/drugs we take(or so I was told). Because of this, I'm not allowed any pain meds. I would love to fire up a bowl just to take the edge off, but I'm not going to risk my spot on the transplant list.
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I don't think most studies of potentially harmful things are done by people who have used it. We don't start human testing until after animal testing. You don't need to be shot to know that bullet holes are bad. and you can learn just as much, probably more, from studying others and not yourself. no one argues that you have to be a drunk to be an expert on alcohol. I guess we can throw out all the tests on meth too, because I am betting the MDs who worked on it never used.
 
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#353
#353
Weezer said:
And if you consider marijuana "bad", you need to reconsider your stance on several other things.

Whether or not you choose to use pot is your choice. Those that do are not bad simply because you choose no to indulge.
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We have been over this. The Federal government didn't write the rules, these are rules not laws anyway. The rules cover non illegal substances so it could still be on the list if legal. The rules were written outside of the states. Just because it is less dangerous doesn't make it a good idea or make it ok. no one is arguing legality or morality except for you two. I am assuming it is on there for MEDICAL reasons.

you know what, I am just going to start copying this post over and over and over again.

its the same old arguments that have nothing to do with the facts or the situation.
 
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#354
#354
Thunder Good-Oil said:
It was pretty much immediate.He smoked with his buddy over Thanksgiving. He became deathly ill immediately after that. But he apparently he had to wait until the illicit substance was no longer in his system. Contrast that with somebody waiting for a liver. Maybe they've damaged it directly due to alcohol abuse. Then they had a beer with a buddy. Three days later, or however long it takes to no longer be detectable in their system, their liver fails and they need an immediate transplant. So they get one because they detected no alcohol in their system... but a guy that could have just inhaled the only reefer in his entire life has to wait 30 days for a lung. After all... it's illicit. Whatever the **** that means.
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That indicates to me there is a decent chance the weed caused his pneumonia.
 
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#355
#355
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And where is the harm in prescribing a form of THC to ease a patient's pain? Is eating a brownie going to ruin a lung? Should recipients be put in order according to their tolerance for pain? How much harm does THC do to the transplant success rate and how should that be measured against patient suffering?

I'd like to know if only liver patients are not allowed pain meds or if the waiting list is for other organs as well.
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this has already been posted. I think it was orangedog. it shoes short term less mortality but long term it has a higher rate. seems pretty clear there are effects. and this was even for people who had stopped using and met the requirements. I imagine it would be more pronounced in consistent users.
 
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#357
#357
Whether fair or not, despite the guideline of who gets an organ, being wealthy or famous still enhances your chances of getting an organ, i.e. Mickey Mantle and Steve Jobs.
 
#358
#358
Coug said:
Lol!! You're going to have to show proof that several months of your body slowly getting weaker and dying because you were denied being put on the list DIDN'T play a role in his death.



Coughing fits while smoking weed only happen in people who don't know what they're doing. This argument is mostly moot though given that there are other ways to consume THC that don't involve smoking it. Had this kid been consuming edibles, or even vaping rather than smoking weed he'd still have been denied being put on the list.
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Never heard that before. I always thought it meant it was some really "good sheet".
 
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#359
#359
Regardless of this guy's tragic situation I just find it sadly comedic when people go out of their way to demonize weed. In 2017.
 
#360
#360
This is a classic postmodern argument. Some older kid/young adult does something they were forbidden to do, suffers the consequence, and then it's everybody else's fault and responsibility to find some way to blame the government, medicine, "Big Pharma," etc.

Moral of the story? If you need a transplant, follow the rules. That should be relatively straightforward.
 
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#361
#361
kiddiedoc said:
This is a classic postmodern argument. Some older kid/young adult does something they were forbidden to do, suffers the consequence, and then it's everybody else's fault and responsibility to find some way to blame the government, medicine, "Big Pharma," etc.

Moral of the story? If you need a transplant, follow the rules. That should be relatively straightforward.
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That's not the moral at all. The moral is that rules should not be arbitrary and if you make a rule there should be an extremely valid reason for it because people may die due to this rule.

That's the same for seatbelt laws and any other government regulation
 
#363
#363
Vol8188 said:
That's not the moral at all. The moral is that rules should not be arbitrary and if you make a rule there should be an extremely valid reason for it because people may die due to this rule.

That's the same for seatbelt laws and any other government regulation
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... Except this wasn't a "government regulation," it was a medical transplant rule, one with valid reasoning (as already presented).

Read back through the thread and see who keeps turning this into a government/pharma/conspiracy debate.
 
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#364
#364
Vol8188 said:
That's not the moral at all. The moral is that rules should not be arbitrary and if you make a rule there should be an extremely valid reason for it because people may die due to this rule.

That's the same for seatbelt laws and any other government regulation
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The alternative to that is the guy got his lungs and died and therefore wasted the organs and someone else that followed the rules and didn't get their lungs and died.
 
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#365
#365
Does anyone truly believe this guy in his late teens, from Utah, and who enjoyed hiking, had merely tried weed for the first time in his life after leaving his parents' house on Thanksgiving night? Come on.

Still think he was getting denied no matter if pot was or was not legal.
 
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#366
#366
bignewt said:
Regardless of this guy's tragic situation I just find it sadly comedic when people go out of their way to demonize weed. In 2017.
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Who's demonizing weed in this thread?

A bunch of things- called drugs, some legal, some not, are part of the no-no list an international medical panel names you can't have in your system to get a transplant. It's because of known and unknown drug actions, side effects, and drug interactions. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The "illicit" drugs either have known dangerous actions/reactions on transplant patients OR not enough is known about them. Especially, especially, in drugs like THC where even the best studies were done only because they could be designed and tracked alongside normal post transplant patient care.

The problem is the marijuana is still a federally banned drug. It can not get FDA approval/funding for comprehensive testing.

That HAS NO BEARING on the transplant candidate's score. THC metabolites stay in the body longer than water soluable drugs or their metabolites.
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Here's the kicker:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/

..."Cannabis sativa contains over 421 different chemical compounds, including over 60 cannabinoids [1-3]. Cannabinoid plant chemistry is far more complex than that of pure THC, and different effects may be expected due to the presence of additional cannabinoids and other chemicals. Eighteen different classes of chemicals, including nitrogenous compounds, amino acids, hydrocarbons, carbohydrates, terpenes, and simple and fatty acids, contribute to the known pharmacological and toxicological properties of cannabis. THC is usually present in Cannabis plant material as a mixture of monocarboxylic acids, which readily and efficiently decarboxylate upon heating. THC decomposes when exposed to air, heat, or light; exposure to acid can oxidize the compound to cannabinol (CBN), a much less-potent cannabinoid. In addition, cannabis plants dried in the sun release variable amounts of THC through decarboxylation. During smoking, more than 2,000 compounds may be produced by pyrolysis."...
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So, a joint has over 400+ chemical compounds.
Burning the joint produces in the neighborhood of 2000 more, of which a paltry few may have any studies done on how they might interact in a deadly manner with drugs administered during or after surgery. Probably no studies at all.

It would be beyond reckless endangerment for profit for a hospital to allow a transplant surgeon to continue with a transplant protocal after finding marijuana metabolites in the system. Maybe the patient found somewhere on earth medically pure THC with NO other chemicals, but probably not. A joint smoked? An emotional family begging "Save our son". prevails and should the patient die, malpractice and wrongful death and loss of license are looming large for the hospital, the surgeon and anyone else in the room, the janitor and the cab driver.

/finis for me this is getting boring
 
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#369
#369
Coug said:
Lol!! You're going to have to show proof that several months of your body slowly getting weaker and dying because you were denied being put on the list DIDN'T play a role in his death.



Coughing fits while smoking weed only happen in people who don't know what they're doing. This argument is mostly moot though given that there are other ways to consume THC that don't involve smoking it. Had this kid been consuming edibles, or even vaping rather than smoking weed he'd still have been denied being put on the list.
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And you are going to have to show proof that it did. I'm sorry, what medical experience do you have? How many years have you worked on a transplant team or with pre peri and post op transplant patients? Because I have you beat, I promise
 
#370
#370
Weezer said:
Just read the article in full. this article is full of misrepresentation, imo. There's no proof the delay in transplant resulted in his death. Complications after the surgery killed him.
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Again, facts. Thanks
 
#372
#372
kiddiedoc said:
This is a classic postmodern argument. Some older kid/young adult does something they were forbidden to do, suffers the consequence, and then it's everybody else's fault and responsibility to find some way to blame the government, medicine, "Big Pharma," etc.

Moral of the story? If you need a transplant, follow the rules. That should be relatively straightforward.
Click to expand...

We don't know from the posted article if there was any need at all for a transplant prior to when he smoked the evil marijuana. So along those same lines, don't ever touch a drop of alcohol... because if you have and suddenly need an immediate transplant, you'll die because there's alcohol in your system. Don't take a drag on a Marlboro either.

That's one of the issues to me. Marijuana remains in your system for, what, 30 days minimum? Then alcohol and tobacco can found for how long? A couple of days? So somebody could have been abusing alcohol only a few days before a transplant date and gets an all clear, but a guy with THC in his system might still not clear the hurdle even if it's been a couple of months since he ate a brownie.
 
#375
#375
kiddiedoc said:
... Except this wasn't a "government regulation," it was a medical transplant rule, one with valid reasoning (as already presented).

Read back through the thread and see who keeps turning this into a government/pharma/conspiracy debate.
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If they had listed it separately instead of under "illicit drugs" I would agree with you that this wasn't about government regulation.
 
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