2006 Vols Biggest Surprise???

[WA_Vol]

One of the best measuring sticks for evaluating coaches is whether or not the program is in better shape when they left the program then when they inherited it.

Its debatable about Ole Miss. They had a pretty dismal year last year. I'm not ready to contribute all of that to their new head coach.

The same is true for Fulmer. I'm not ready to say that the UT football program is in better shape now, then it was when Fulmer took over it. There is a lot of talent on this UT's team, but up until this year its not had great development. Fulmer inherited a pretty talented Vol team from Majors as well. Its a debatable point. There is no debate about this though, Majors record over his last 4 years as Head Coach at UT is better then Fulmer's record over his last 4 years.

 

[jakez4ut]

That's an accurate statement. His win percentage confirms it.

i'm not even real impressed with his winning %....rather, that he's the only Ole Miss football coach in the history of that program that directed Ole Miss to four bowl appearances in his first five seasons...and is the first head coach since the late 1930's that had winning records his 1st 5 years at the helm.

 

[OldVol]

Now why did you have to go look up facts and bring them into the conversation?

I know Tommy. In fact, he used to run a catfish place in a town near where I live and I used to eat there often. In fact, before he went back into
coaching, he almost decided to stay here and grow his business.

He's a nice guy.

So is David Cutcliffe.

They're both good coaches and deserve a lot of credit for what they've accomplished.

 

[hatvol96]

Reality Check:

When Miami won the NC in 1987, Tuberville was 1 year removed from being a graduate assistant coach (according to his Auburn bio) in 1986, he was
3 years removed from that prestigious position when they won in 89.

Tubby didn't become defensive coordinator at Miami until 1993 when they went 9-3.

Tubby had coached at Arkansas St. prior to taking the Miami gig. That's one of those bottom feeder schools where all the experience is meaningless, according to some authorities.

So much for trumping Cutcliffe. :birgits_giggle:

Who's an SEC contender's head coach and who had to crawl back to Knoxville to the arms of his benefactor for work? If he was half the coach you guys portray him to be, Weiss would have waited for him. He didn't really replace him on the staff.

 

[OldVol]

i'm not even real impressed with his winning %....rather, that he's the only Ole Miss football coach in the history of that program that directed Ole Miss to four bowl appearances in his first five seasons...and is the first head coach since the late 1930's that had winning records his 1st 5 years at the helm.

Which, one would think, would have earned him another year or two. Funny thing about those college presidents, when they call you in and make demands, they expect them to be heeded. I think Ole Miss was unfair, and unreasonable to Cut.

 

[VolBeef88]

One of the best measuring sticks for evaluating coaches is whether or not the program is in better shape when they left the program then when they inherited it.

Its debatable about Ole Miss. They had a pretty dismal year last year. I'm not ready to contribute all of that to their new head coach.

The same is true for Fulmer. I'm not ready to say that the UT football program is in better shape now, then it was when Fulmer took over it. There is a lot of talent on this UT's team, but up until this year its not had great development. Fulmer inherited a pretty talented Vol team from Majors as well. Its a debatable point. There is no debate about this though, Majors record over his last 4 years as Head Coach at UT is better then Fulmer's record over his last 4 years.

Ok, now then why don't you look at CPF first 4 years against CJM last 4. In order to have a true comp you have of the last 4 years of a coaches tenure don't you kinda have to wait utnil CPF is gone?

 

[hatvol96]

Reality Check:

When Miami won the NC in 1987, Tuberville was 1 year removed from being a graduate assistant coach (according to his Auburn bio) in 1986, he was
3 years removed from that prestigious position when they won in 89.

Tubby didn't become defensive coordinator at Miami until 1993 when they went 9-3.

Tubby had coached at Arkansas St. prior to taking the Miami gig. That's one of those bottom feeder schools where all the experience is meaningless, according to some authorities.

So much for trumping Cutcliffe. :birgits_giggle:

1. Good job on your research. I guess Sonny Lubick hasn't been at CSU as long as it seems. 2. Arkansas State is fine, if it's coupled with Miami. Also, I'm going to guess him time at Arkansas State would have been under Larry Lacewell, not your average lower ranks coach. Show me something comparable on our guys resumes and I might cut them some slack.

 

[VolBeef88]

Who's an SEC contender's head coach and who had to crawl back to Knoxville to the arms of his benefactor for work? If he was half the coach you guys portray him to be, Weiss would have waited for him. He didn't really replace him on the staff.

Cut did not crawl to KTown for a job? Are you serious? Cut is very much respected and if he wanted could be a head coach again. Ole Miss has been laughed at many times on the national level for getting rid of Cut.

 

[VolBeef88]

1. Good job on your research. I guess Sonny Lubick hasn't been at CSU as long as it seems. 2. Arkansas State is fine, if it's coupled with Miami. Also, I'm going to guess him time at Arkansas State would have been under Larry Lacewell, not your average lower ranks coach. Show me something comparable on our guys resumes and I might cut them some slack.

Yet more excuses for a coach with no ties to our school.

 

[hatvol96]

Ok, now then why don't you look at CPF first 4 years against CJM last 4. In order to have a true comp you have of the last 4 years of a coaches tenure don't you kinda have to wait utnil CPF is gone?

The eight year stretch you mention, last 4 Majors-first 4 Fulmer, were awfully good all around.

 

[OldVol]

Cut did not crawl to KTown for a job? Are you serious? Cut is very much respected and if he wanted could be a head coach again. Ole Miss has been laughed at many times on the national level for getting rid of Cut.

Absolutely.

True on all points.

David is in Knoxville for one reason and one reason alone. I think it was 4 bypasses.

I never have understood how people could mock him for being where he is today when the truth is that it was because of serious health issues.

Sad.

 

[VolBeef88]

The eight year stretch you mention, last 4 Majors-first 4 Fulmer, were awfully good all around.

I agree. But I think if you check CPF first 4 were better than CJM last 4.

 

[hatvol96]

Cut did not crawl to KTown for a job? Are you serious? Cut is very much respected and if he wanted could be a head coach again. Ole Miss has been laughed at many times on the national level for getting rid of Cut.

Yeah, I noticed how everyone who replaced coaches this offseason came racing to get him. I guess his interviews at Kansas State and Colorado just didn't get reported. Unless cloning is made legal and there are more Mannings on the way, Cut has the excitement factor of a chunk of granite as a head coach.

 

[jakez4ut]

The Missys probably would have given Cutcliffe another year or two to get back on the winning side of things if it was not for all the success that Tuberville was having at Auburn. IMO many Missys felt cheated by Tuberville's defection and they thought that it would have been Old Miss contending for NCs if he had stayed. In that environment, all it took was a big leap backward in one season to get Cut axed.

Auburn and Ole Miss are two separte entities....and comparing the two is ridiculous...which is why i find it arrogant of Ole Miss to all of the sudden think they are something that they clearly are not. Cut accomplished more at Ole Miss than Tubs did, can't argue that. Firing Cut doesn't bring Tubs back, and nor does it necessarily translate into betterment of the program. Sure Mr. Ed has made some noise recruiting, but has yet to prove his worth in the upper echilon of the SEC, a feat that would, if accomplished, would warrant all the accolades he'd be sure to get. But as of now, it's all speculation on what he might do, in what is these days could be argued the most competitive division in college football.

Was Ole Miss quick on the draw? Probably. That said, would I rather have a guy with a handful of National championship rings and recognized as one of the key recruiting forces behind the Miami and USC dynasties as my head coach? Yes. Also, that which must be done inevitably should be done immediately. Ole Miss firmly believed Cutcliffe wasn't going to get them where they wanted to go without major staff changes. Cutcliffe refused to make said changes. At that point, it makes perfect sense to move on.

i agree in principal to what you're saying, but at the same time, in this day and age, the only thing you have to go on in college football is what you have done. and simply having a handful of NC rings as an asst. on NC staff, doesn't mean anything at another program, esp. one like Ole Miss. Tubs didn't do anything noteworthy at Ole miss except make some wild calls and get the nickname "river boat gambler". Mr. Ed hasn't done anything yet either, except get some folks excited about how many stars are next to a kids name that will eventually be on an Ole Miss roster, none of which has translated in to anythnig on the feild. the only thing that is known is that Cut took an Ole Miss program to levels that they hadn't seen in over a decade. The admin believing a change had to be made, well, ok i'm sure they did, but only time will tell if thier belief was credible or not.

 

[hatvol96]

I agree. But I think if you check CPF first 4 were better than CJM last 4.

Really, 0 SEC titles is better than 2? That's interesting math.

 

[VolBeef88]

Absolutely.

True on all points.

David is in Knoxville for one reason and one reason alone. I think it was 4 bypasses.

I never have understood how people could mock him for being where he is today when the truth is that it was because of serious health issues.

Sad.

Only a few are mocking. Most UT fans I know are thrilled. I've heard several say that they were glad he left but then were soon on the band wagon when we had a chance to get him back.

 

[jakez4ut]

The same is true for Fulmer. I'm not ready to say that the UT football program is in better shape now, then it was when Fulmer took over it. There is a lot of talent on this UT's team, but up until this year its not had great development. Fulmer inherited a pretty talented Vol team from Majors as well. Its a debatable point. There is no debate about this though, Majors record over his last 4 years as Head Coach at UT is better then Fulmer's record over his last 4 years.

i'd be inclined to say that if someone took over at UT today, it would not be in as good as shape as when Fulmer took over.

 

[hatvol96]

Absolutely.

True on all points.

David is in Knoxville for one reason and one reason alone. I think it was 4 bypasses.

I never have understood how people could mock him for being where he is today when the truth is that it was because of serious health issues.

Sad.

Nobody is mocking him. It's simply that some of us don't think he's Don Coryell, Bill Walsh, and Miks Shananhan all rolled into one.

 

[GAVol]

It's simply that some of us don't think he's Don Coryell, Bill Walsh, and Miks Shananhan all rolled into one.

I can agree with that . . . but he didn't exactly "crawl back to Knoxville into the arms of a benefactor". You make it sound like he drove into town in a smoking Pinto with a sign that said "Will coach for food".

 

[OldVol]

Nobody is mocking him. It's simply that some of us don't think he's Don Coryell, Bill Walsh, and Miks Shananhan all rolled into one.

QUOTE: "who had to crawl back to Knoxville to the arms of his benefactor for work?

 

[hatvol96]

QUOTE: "who had to crawl back to Knoxville to the arms of his benefactor for work?

That's not mocking. Mocking would be if I pointed out that listening to him speak is like listening to Pat Dye after he's taken an overdose of quaaludes. That would be mocking. True, but mocking.

 

[jakez4ut]

1. Good job on your research. I guess Sonny Lubick hasn't been at CSU as long as it seems. 2. Arkansas State is fine, if it's coupled with Miami. Also, I'm going to guess him time at Arkansas State would have been under Larry Lacewell, not your average lower ranks coach. Show me something comparable on our guys resumes and I might cut them some slack.

the story on those guys is still being written...so when we look at those guys resumes, just remember, that they had to start somewhere, and looking back on Lacewell and Tubberville now, 20 somthing years later, it's a lot easier to see the "family tree" and take it for what it really was.

I doubt back in the day, anyone at Miami would be all excited about a kid from Ark St joining the coaching staff, even under Larry Lacewell, who at the time, probably didn't have the same reuptation he does today for his football knowledge...

hindsight is always 20/20....

and i'm not saying i'm thrilled about our new additions...just that we don't know yet, they may turn out great, they may fall flat on their face...

 

[GAVol]

That's not mocking. Mocking would be if I pointed out that listening to him speak is like listening to Pat Dye after he's taken an overdose of quaaludes. That would be mocking. True, but mocking.

No . . . That would make him Danny Ford.

 

[OldVol]

That's not mocking. Mocking would be if I pointed out that listening to him speak is like listening to Pat Dye after he's taken an overdose of quaaludes. That would be mocking. True, but mocking.

Well, one thing I was able to accomplish, and you have to admit this; I did get you talking to yourself on that one.

 

[OldVol]

No . . . That would make him Danny Ford.

Did you have to bring up that name?