A few facts for the mopes on here

#78
#78
landscapingvol said:
Since 2010 Tennessee has signed 40 4 star players and 1 5 star players, a pretty good stat. However, of those 41 players only 24 remain on the roster and of those 24 there are zero 5 star players.

For comparison's sake, since 2010 UGA has signed 43 4 star players and 5 5 star players, again very good. However, and most telling, 42 remain on the roster including 4 5 star players. That is a difference of 18 players and if you think that doesn't make a difference you are greatly mistaken.

Just to add more fuel to the fire, since 2010 Alabama has signed 50 4 star players and 11 5 star players, exceptionally good. And again, most telling, 50 remain on the roster and of the 11 that no longer remain on the roster 7 were first round draft picks. That is a difference of 26 players.

Tom Landry couldn't win with those kind of odds stacked against him, continue with the Butch Jones bashing.
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i can agree with this. what is the reason to struggle against the crappy teams though. hell we are worse than UK. coaching has something to do with it.
 
#79
#79
InVOLuntary said:
The only one's going off the deep end are the one's that go ballistic when someone is slightly critical of Butch. How many threads have been started saying it's time to fire Butch? Now how many of these excuses threads have popped up since yesterday?

I personally like Butch but I don't think he and his all star staff was ready for this stage. I realize he needs more time. I have seen improvement in a lot of areas. But I've also noticed things that caused concern.
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Why are you even a fan of the VOLS? Everything you write is negative. What coaching hire would have made you happy? You contradict yourself on many occasions. On one hand, you say that CBJ and his staff are not ready for this stage. And then you say but you realize they need time. Which is it? Is he not ready or does he need time?

You are comparing a South Alabama team that has been playing TOGETHER in the SAME SYSTEM for the last 3 years. That makes a big difference. They understand their system.

Our kids are learning a new system yet again. If you want to blame anyone blame yourself for being impatient.
 
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#81
#81
titansvolsfaninga said:
Why are you even a fan of the VOLS? Everything you write is negative. What coaching hire would have made you happy? You contradict yourself on many occasions. On one hand, you say that CBJ and his staff are not ready for this stage. And then you say but you realize they need time. Which is it? Is he not ready or does he need time?

You are comparing a South Alabama team that has been playing TOGETHER in the SAME SYSTEM for the last 3 years. That makes a big difference. They understand their system.

Our kids are learning a new system yet again. If you want to blame anyone blame yourself for being impatient.
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I'm not impatient at all! I didn't expect to beat Oregon or FL. I did expect the team to offer a little more resistance than air against Oregon. The TE from OR is still running.

You are right! USA has been together for three years. The whole existence of their D1 football program. I don't think it's wrong of me to be concerned that it took a last second interception to preserve a win against them!

What bothers me is people questioning others for having a higher standard. Do I think Butch should be fired? No, that's ludicrous. But I don't think fair criticism should be met with "turn your fan card in" or "Your just a negavol". Well if having a high standard for your football program and expecting a coaching staff to make calls that justify their 3 mil dollar salary means your a negavol that I am guilty. The same crap was said about Dooley. Give him time he'll be the savior! MY gosh we've turned into Vandy with all this fall in line blind acceptance.
 
#82
#82
InVOLuntary said:
I'm not impatient at all! I didn't expect to beat Oregon or FL. I did expect the team to offer a little more resistance than air against Oregon. The TE from OR is still running.

You are right! USA has been together for three years. The whole existence of their D1 football program. I don't think it's wrong of me to be concerned that it took a last second interception to preserve a win against them!

What bothers me is people questioning others for having a higher standard. Do I think Butch should be fired? No, that's ludicrous. But I don't think fair criticism should be met with "turn your fan card in" or "Your just a negavol". Well if having a high standard for your football program and expecting a coaching staff to make calls that justify their 3 mil dollar salary means your a negavol that I am guilty. The same crap was said about Dooley. Give him time he'll be the savior! MY gosh we've turned into Vandy with all this fall in line blind acceptance.
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Criticism is one thing. Being asinine is another. What you are doing is discounting the fact that SA has been together for three years. Continuity in a system and program means a lot. To think otherwise is asinine. Look at how smaller mid major basketball programs fair against the more athletic major D1 schools. The major D1 schools may have better athletes, but the smaller schools have played together for a number of years in a system that they understand.
 
#83
#83
Reminder that Nick Saban when 7-6 his first year at Bama (including a loss to Louisana-Monroe) after inhereting a much better situation than Jones.

Patience

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#84
#84
PEPPERJAX said:
The bottom line is we gave Doolander three years, so CBJ deserves three as well.
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I disagree. A coach only "deserves" his job for as long as the administration and team believe that he's the proper person for the job.
 
#85
#85
titansvolsfaninga said:
Criticism is one thing. Being asinine is another. What you are doing is discounting the fact that SA has been together for three years. Continuity in a system and program means a lot. To think otherwise is asinine. Look at how smaller mid major basketball programs fair against the more athletic major D1 schools. The major D1 schools may have better athletes, but the smaller schools have played together for a number of years in a system that they understand.
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Look I get it! Your expectations are below mine. You have the right to feel that it's ok to barely beat USA. That's fine. I don't call you a "sheep" or "stupid" or whatever. I respect your opinion and I expect the same from others and don't expect to be called whatever the popular term of the day is for someone who dares question Butch Almighty.

I like Butch. I am puling for Butch. Is he the long term solution for OUR program? Who knows. It is best for all Vol fans if he succeeds because if he doesn't we may never pull out of this crap hole that we find ourselves in. Butch and his staff were not ready for a job this big, in this condition right now in my opinion. I do think he can get there but he is learning on the job. His recruiting is awesome, the players are not having off the field issues and that's a plus.

But I bet if you asked Butch, he'd tell you that the win/loss record is right where he thought it would be but I bet he would tell you he wasn't happy with the Oregon, FL, WKU, or USA performances either. I would bet you, (and there is no way to prove it so it doesn't matter) that privately Butch would tell you that the team is behind where he thought they would be at this point in his tenure. Just conjecture on my part.
 
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#86
#86
titansvolsfaninga said:
Criticism is one thing. Being asinine is another. What you are doing is discounting the fact that SA has been together for three years. Continuity in a system and program means a lot. To think otherwise is asinine. Look at how smaller mid major basketball programs fair against the more athletic major D1 schools. The major D1 schools may have better athletes, but the smaller schools have played together for a number of years in a system that they understand.
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I agree. Not to mention we had just finished traveling like 6,000 miles the past 2 Saturdays playing 2 top 10 teams, and one that could end up playing for a NC. Our guys have been through a lot, and all teams have let downs sometimes. People need to realize that you're not always going to win by 20-30 points against a lesser team. It happens to the best of them.
 
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#87
#87
landscapingvol said:
Since 2010 Tennessee has signed 40 4 star players and 1 5 star players, a pretty good stat. However, of those 41 players only 24 remain on the roster and of those 24 there are zero 5 star players.

For comparison's sake, since 2010 UGA has signed 43 4 star players and 5 5 star players, again very good. However, and most telling, 42 remain on the roster including 4 5 star players. That is a difference of 18 players and if you think that doesn't make a difference you are greatly mistaken.

Just to add more fuel to the fire, since 2010 Alabama has signed 50 4 star players and 11 5 star players, exceptionally good. And again, most telling, 50 remain on the roster and of the 11 that no longer remain on the roster 7 were first round draft picks. That is a difference of 26 players.

Tom Landry couldn't win with those kind of odds stacked against him, continue with the Butch Jones bashing.
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All true which is why NO ONE has seriously suggested that UT should compete with UGA for the East or Bama for the SEC this year.

All I have said is that 5 would be underperforming the talent on the roster, 6 would be beating the teams with less talent, and 7 would indicate that Jones could outcoach someone. THat's hardly "bashing".
 
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#88
#88
Oh, btw, the coaching was not good vs Oregon and coaching decisions weighed heavily into the margin if not outcome of the UF game.

I went ballistic after Oregon because of the underperformance... but it happens.

I respect Jones for making the decision he did at UF though it did not work out and is STILL his responsibility and loss.

But there comes a time when the "right" coach will make the "right" decisions and get a BETTER than expected outcome.

If you think UT will ever recruit enough talent for an "average" coach like Richt, Miles, Muschamp, etc to win championships then you are going to be disappointed. UT needs an ELITE coach who routinely beats teams with equal or greater talent.

That of course assumes you want to see UT win championships and not just to see them return to the point where they're considered "contenders" and get nice bowl games around NYD.
 
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#89
#89
sjt18 said:
All true which is why NO ONE has seriously suggested that UT should compete with UGA for the East or Bama for the SEC this year.

All I have said is that 5 would be underperforming the talent on the roster, 6 would be beating the teams with less talent, and 7 would indicate that Jones could outcoach someone. THat's hardly "bashing".
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I agree with this 100%. I get that fans have different level of expectations but if you say the coaching staff has underachieved if they don't beat teams that they are on equal or greater talent with, you are a Butch hater and want him fired at the end of the season. And, if you put that number 6 or 7 out there that translates into you expect an SEC championship.
 
#90
#90
TheGimp said:
Reminder that Nick Saban when 7-6 his first year at Bama (including a loss to Louisana-Monroe) after inhereting a much better situation than Jones.
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No and no... but I understand why it is comfortable for people to keep telling themselves that. Saban inherited a situation at Bama much more similar to the one Kiffin inherited at UT. He did some similar things. He cut some trouble makers loose. He force fed his way of doing things and his system. He tossed the old "You stay, you play" philosophy that both Fulmer and Shula believed in.

We do not KNOW whether Jones is a coach capable of getting it done at UT or not. He still has to prove that. Overplaying the lack of talent... does nothing to help an honest evaluation of Jones. There are problems with the roster... They are not sufficient to make UT "lucky" if they can scrape together six wins.
 
#91
#91
sjt18 said:
Oh, btw, the coaching was not good vs Oregon and coaching decisions weighed heavily into the margin if not outcome of the UF game.

I went ballistic after Oregon because of the underperformance... but it happens.

I respect Jones for making the decision he did at UF though it did not work out and is STILL his responsibility and loss.

But there comes a time when the "right" coach will make the "right" decisions and get a BETTER than expected outcome.

If you think UT will ever recruit enough talent for an "average" coach like Richt, Miles, Muschamp, etc to win championships then you are going to be disappointed. UT needs an ELITE coach who routinely beats teams with equal or greater talent.

That of course assumes you want to see UT win championships and not just to see them return to the point where they're considered "contenders" and get nice bowl games around NYD.
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Are you on drugs? How did we under perform against the number two team in the country? Did you think we were going to play them to within a field goal or something? The third game of the year, with a new coaching staff, you expected us to beat Oregon. Who has a new coaching staff but has been running the same system for at least 6 years.

All of the coaches that you named have good talent and have been running the same system for years, aside from Muschamp.

I am convinced that we have the most dim witted fans in college football.
 
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#92
#92
titansvolsfaninga said:
Are you on drugs? How did we under perform against the number two team in the country? Did you think we were going to play them to within a field goal or something? The third game of the year, with a new coaching staff, you expected us to beat Oregon. Who has a new coaching staff but has been running the same system for at least 6 years.

All of the coaches that you named have good talent and have been running the same system for years, aside from Muschamp.

I am convinced that we have the most dim witted fans in college football.
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How did his post indicate in anyway that he thought UT should beat OR?
 
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#93
#93
sjt18 said:
Oh, btw, the coaching was not good vs Oregon and coaching decisions weighed heavily into the margin if not outcome of the UF game.

I went ballistic after Oregon because of the underperformance... but it happens.

I respect Jones for making the decision he did at UF though it did not work out and is STILL his responsibility and loss.

But there comes a time when the "right" coach will make the "right" decisions and get a BETTER than expected outcome.

If you think UT will ever recruit enough talent for an "average" coach like Richt, Miles, Muschamp, etc to win championships then you are going to be disappointed. UT needs an ELITE coach who routinely beats teams with equal or greater talent.

That of course assumes you want to see UT win championships and not just to see them return to the point where they're considered "contenders" and get nice bowl games around NYD.
Click to expand...

Just curious but how do you define an elite coach? I think there is only a couple of elite coaches in the country and they are not going to leave their current situation to rebuild a program.

I would define a coach by his body of work and when Jones was hired his body of work says he wins every where he has been.
 
#96
#96
landscapingvol said:
Since 2010 Tennessee has signed 40 4 star players and 1 5 star players, a pretty good stat. However, of those 41 players only 24 remain on the roster and of those 24 there are zero 5 star players.

For comparison's sake, since 2010 UGA has signed 43 4 star players and 5 5 star players, again very good. However, and most telling, 42 remain on the roster including 4 5 star players. That is a difference of 18 players and if you think that doesn't make a difference you are greatly mistaken.

Just to add more fuel to the fire, since 2010 Alabama has signed 50 4 star players and 11 5 star players, exceptionally good. And again, most telling, 50 remain on the roster and of the 11 that no longer remain on the roster 7 were first round draft picks. That is a difference of 26 players.

Tom Landry couldn't win with those kind of odds stacked against him, continue with the Butch Jones bashing.
Click to expand...



Go Cut Some Grass..

Quit Making Excuses.
 
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#98
#98
InVOLuntary said:
How did his post indicate in anyway that he thought UT should beat OR?
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I wanted to know how we under performed. Common sense would tell you that based on last years team, plus a new offensive and defensive system would not equal a good showing the third game of the year.
 
#99
#99
I get so confused by this place.

Before the season we had the majority of fans here hyping Jones to the moon, and yelling down any "NegaVol" that had the nerve to point out "Hey we're still not very good." All I remember is talking about how we were going to shock the world in Eugene and win in Gainesville, etc.

Now we have some of the same majority now saying it was stupid for people to expect anything and for some reason seem to be putting this on the "NegaVols", or at least lumping them with the "Butch Bashers".

Some of us "NegaVols" expected this, STATED this, and haven't changed our opinion. Most of us 'NegaVols" have never been a Butch basher, nor have we made any kind of judgment on him. Yes there are some that are already disowning him, and that's silly for the reasons mentioned. But for crying out loud realize some of us have said this from the beginning and were just completely bashed for not being a true believer.
 
#100
#100
titansvolsfaninga said:
I wanted to know how we under performed. Common sense would tell you that based on last years team, plus a new offensive and defensive system would not equal a good showing the third game of the year.
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I can understand that you might question how we under performed but you made the claim that he expected UT to beat Oregon. I can't speak for him but I thought we under performed when we made no adjustments. The TE was running wild and we never made an adjustment to try to slow him. Also, I was disappointed that we tried to "Out Oregon Oregon". I was disappointed when we tried to run a fast paced offense against them. Stanford has had the most success against them by slowing things down. No, we couldn't beat them if we had 100 tries but I thought we could have had a better game plan and maybe made it look more respectable.
 
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