Abortions Rights Win (Again)

[Vol since 77]

Iraq was a straight f job by him.

True, forgot about that one. I admit the Patriot Act tends to blind me to his other bad moves. I will say though, Bush is a quick mofo, dodging shoes. Not sure any other POTUS has ever been as quick as he was that day

 

[Tnslim1]

You may feel differently, but as a Christian don't you believe God will forgive that sin if the person sincerely asks for it. If so, shouldn't we the practitioners do the same?

If they ask and are forgiven then they won't hear that question.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Outside of Bush's Patriot Act, I thought he did a decent job as POTUS. I can't get past that act with him though for some reason. Every POTUS since him has been way, way down as far as decent goes imo. We seem to get worse with each election too.

Bush gore was the first time I remember the polls being way off. And they’ve not been correct since.
They even called the state for Gore in Florida based on the polls before they eventually had to admit Bush won

 

[Noni]

I’m pro-choice , but are you about to say if you’re not a biological female you can’t have an opinion on abortion?

Not what I'm implying. I was just curious if anyone doing so had actually been faced with this very personal decision.

 

[Orangeburst]

It is personal between multiple people. Just speaking for the ones who can't speak

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

But those old white males were voted in to office. The majority of the populace, obviously slim, are women. So that argument rings hollow.

When elected representatives are saying things like ,"abortion is between the woman, her doctor and her politician", there will be major conflict

 

[85SugarVol]

Not what I'm implying. I was just curious if anyone doing so had actually been faced with this very personal decision.

So if you haven’t been faced with this very personal decision? What then?

 

[hog88]

So if you haven’t been faced with this very personal decision? What then?

I'm curious as well.

 

[Noni]

So if you haven’t been faced with this very personal decision? What then?

Then you don't truly know just how gut wrenching and PERSONAL it is.

 

[hog88]

Then you don't truly know just how gut wrenching and PERSONAL it is.

I completely understand that but (and I mean no disrespect) what does that have to do with legislation regarding abortion?

 

[85SugarVol]

Then you don't truly know just how gut wrenching and PERSONAL it is.

And if you “don’t know” how gut wrenching and personal it is? What then?

 

[Noni]

I completely understand that but (and I mean no disrespect) what does that have to do with legislation regarding abortion?

I mean that it's personal and if you've never had to make that decision you can't know how truly weighty it is.

Also, when you legislate abortion you are also legislating healthcare. It's not just a slogan, it's a fact. When doctors cannot perform medically needed abortions they don't practice in that state. They go somewhere else where they can actually treat patients without fear of being criminally charged. There are five women suing Texas because they almost died because their doctor couldn't give them the medical care they needed. Now there are fewer practicing gynecologists in your state which affects all pregnant women. And let's say you are unlucky enough to be pregnant and live in a state where the laws are becoming increasingly draconian and they criminalize abortions. You miscarry (which happens more often that many people realize) but you're afraid to seek medical care because they'll charge you with murder because the doctors are required to report you.

This is really happening in this country in 2023 and it is putting women's lives at risk.

Women want and need authority over their own bodies. Full stop. Your opinion, my opinion or the law should not inhibit her rights.

And it scares the hell out of me to think that my two year old great granddaughter, who I absolutely adore, may come of age without a right that every woman deserves to have. A right that every man has. Autonomy over her own body.

 

[hog88]

I mean that it's personal and if you've never had to make that decision you can't know how truly weighty it is.

Also, when you legislate abortion you are also legislating healthcare. It's not just a slogan, it's a fact. When doctors cannot perform medically needed abortions they don't practice in that state. They go somewhere else where they can actually treat patients without fear of being criminally charged. There are five women suing Texas because they almost died because their doctor couldn't give them the medical care they needed. Now there are fewer practicing gynecologists in your state which affects all pregnant women. And let's say you are unlucky enough to be pregnant and live in a state where the laws are becoming increasingly draconian and they criminalize abortions. You miscarry (which happens more often that many people realize) but you're afraid to seek medical care because they'll charge you with murder because the doctors are required to report you.

This is really happening in this country in 2023 and it is putting women's lives at risk.

Women want and need authority over their own bodies. Full stop. Your opinion, my opinion or the law should not inhibit her rights.

And it scares the hell out of me to think that my two year old great granddaughter, who I absolutely adore, may come of age without a right that every woman deserves to have. A right that every man has. Autonomy over her own body.

I can't find any state that outlaws "medically necessary" (I'm assuming you mean life of the mother) abortions. Yes, there are including here in TN states that require justification but I didn't see any of them that outright ban medically necessary abortions.

Interactive Map: US Abortion Policies and Access After Roe

Women, nor men currently have complete authority or autonomy over their own bodies and haven't for decades so that argument is not valid. Also the fear that a woman would be prosecuted for going out of state for an abortion is unjustified, there is no possible way for any such law to stand a court challenge.

Now, with all of that said I 100% oppose a federal ban on abortions so much so that I will not vote for a candidate who supports one. If it came up for a vote in TN I would vote against completely banning the practice I would vote against it. I would vote for a state law banning the practice after say 8 weeks but I am open to discussion on maybe a shorter or longer term by a week or 2.

 

[McDad]

Then you don't truly know just how gut wrenching and PERSONAL it is.

The corollary to that is:
If you aren't a father and have never had to terminate financial support for a child you didn't want, then you don't know how gut wrenching and personal that decision is.

Of course, that's a hypothetical because a father isn't allowed to terminate financial support.

 

[hog88]

The corollary to that is:
If you aren't a father and have never had to terminate financial support for a child you didn't want, then you don't know how gut wrenching and personal that decision is.

Of course, that's a hypothetical because a father isn't allowed to terminate financial support.

I got one that's in her late 20s and I still haven't been able to terminate financial support....

 

[Boston Vol]

Bush gore was the first time I remember the polls being way off. And they’ve not been correct since.
They even called the state for Gore in Florida based on the polls before they eventually had to admit Bush won

Were they that off? Bush had a 2-3 point lead headed into Election Day, but a lead that small is statistically irrelevant. Florida was called early mostly because of the exit poll numbers. Honestly, 2016 is the only Presidential election that I can remember where the polls were dramatically different than the outcome.

 

[McDad]

I can't find any state that outlaws "medically necessary" (I'm assuming you mean life of the mother) abortions. Yes, there are including here in TN states that require justification but I didn't see any of them that outright ban medically necessary abortions.

Interactive Map: US Abortion Policies and Access After Roe

Women, nor men currently have complete authority or autonomy over their own bodies and haven't for decades so that argument is not valid. Also the fear that a woman would be prosecuted for going out of state for an abortion is unjustified, there is no possible way for any such law to stand a court challenge.

Now, with all of that said I 100% oppose a federal ban on abortions so much so that I will not vote for a candidate who supports one. If it came up for a vote in TN I would vote against completely banning the practice I would vote against it. I would vote for a state law banning the practice after say 8 weeks but I am open to discussion on maybe a shorter or longer term by a week or 2.

Here's a paragraph from NYT about the case:
Texas, like most states with bans, allows exceptions when a physician determines there is risk of “substantial” harm to a pregnant woman. Yet the potential for prison sentences of up to 99 years, $100,000 fines and the loss of medical licenses has scared doctors into not providing abortions even in cases where the law would seem to allow them.

If the article is accurate, then it shows how the procedure can be technically legal but practically illegal due to bad policy from bad politicians. Same could be happening in other states with a "medically necessary" clause.

 

[hog88]

Here's a paragraph from NYT about the case:
Texas, like most states with bans, allows exceptions when a physician determines there is risk of “substantial” harm to a pregnant woman. Yet the potential for prison sentences of up to 99 years, $100,000 fines and the loss of medical licenses has scared doctors into not providing abortions even in cases where the law would seem to allow them.

If the article is accurate, then it shows how the procedure can be technically legal but practically illegal due to bad policy from bad politicians. Same could be happening in other states with a "medically necessary" clause.

Bad policy from poorly written laws do not surprise me one bit.

 

[McDad]

Bad policy from poorly written laws do not surprise me one bit.

This issue is finally at the level of government it should be at. I would have hoped state legislators were ready to move forward with well-considered, clearly detailed laws. Maybe that is unreasonable considering it has been at the federal level for almost 50 years. Regardless, bad politicians are not unique to DC. Fortunately, they are easier to replace at the state level.

 

[whodeycin85]

Here's a paragraph from NYT about the case:
Texas, like most states with bans, allows exceptions when a physician determines there is risk of “substantial” harm to a pregnant woman. Yet the potential for prison sentences of up to 99 years, $100,000 fines and the loss of medical licenses has scared doctors into not providing abortions even in cases where the law would seem to allow them.

If the article is accurate, then it shows how the procedure can be technically legal but practically illegal due to bad policy from bad politicians. Same could be happening in other states with a "medically necessary" clause.

Medically necessary should be a pretty easy choice...seems like there might be a issues on whether it was truly necessary

 

[Noni]

Medically necessary should be a pretty easy choice...seems like there might be a issues on whether it was truly necessary

In which case it is a medical decision best left to a doctor, not a lawmaker.

 

[Noni]

The corollary to that is:
If you aren't a father and have never had to terminate financial support for a child you didn't want, then you don't know how gut wrenching and personal that decision is.

Of course, that's a hypothetical because a father isn't allowed to terminate financial support.

Happens all the time. They just don't pay it.

 

[McDad]

Medically necessary should be a pretty easy choice...seems like there might be a issues on whether it was truly necessary

Agreed. Those details do not make it into news media "reports". Those will only come out in trial. The five women are back by a pro abortion group...which could mean there is an agenda. Hopefully, the case will foment better, clearly defined law.

I wonder if the women, either individually or as a group, sued any of the MDs for malpractice as well as Texas.

 

[Orangeburst]

This issue is finally at the level of government it should be at. I would have hoped state legislators were ready to move forward with well-considered, clearly detailed laws. Maybe that is unreasonable considering it has been at the federal level for almost 50 years. Regardless, bad politicians are not unique to DC. Fortunately, they are easier to replace at the state level.

You come back and want to step into this topic?

 

[hog88]

This issue is finally at the level of government it should be at. I would have hoped state legislators were ready to move forward with well-considered, clearly detailed laws. Maybe that is unreasonable considering it has been at the federal level for almost 50 years. Regardless, bad politicians are not unique to DC. Fortunately, they are easier to replace at the state level.

This is why important issues need to be addressed by the lowest level of government possible.