Active Shooter at High School in Parkland, FL

[1972 Grad]

yes, children are being shot in schools in this country or are you not paying attention?

National defense is mandated. This is a national defense issue.

Applying labels makes it so easy doesn't it? No need to actually discuss anything if you just assign the other person to the opposing team and decide they're wrong. Go back to the PF if you think that passes for a debate

It didn't kill me to go through drills. It won't damage your preschooler for life. How do you stand on border security? Part of national defense?

 

[utvolpj]

It didn't kill me to go through drills. It won't damage your preschooler for life. How do you stand on border security? Part of national defense?

My kids go through it because there is a real threat. It is happening. You're a perfect example of why nothing will get done from this. You simply don't have a basic understanding of the issues. Have a good day

Go talk about your stupid wall somewhere else

 

[1972 Grad]

My kids go through it because there is a real threat. It is happening. You're a perfect example of why nothing will get done from this. You simply don't have a basic understanding of the issues. Have a good day

Go talk about your stupid wall somewhere else.

It was certainly thought that nuclear war was a real threat to our entire country when I was in school. Just because you are too young to understand that isn't my fault.

I have a perfect understanding of the issues. There are crazy people, and they have access to all kinds of ways to create chaos and kill people. You can't stop every bad thing that happens. People break laws.

Nice last remark. I find it telling.

 

[Coug]

I saw these groups of teens on the news talking about protesting in Washington in the hopes of banning "assault rifles". I thought to myself, "do you even know what you are talking about?" An ACTUAL assault rifle is equipped with a fully automatic mode, EX: U.S. Military M4. A Mossberg MMR is an AR-15 style rifle but it's not an "assault rifle" because it's only available in semiautomatic. The AR in AR-15 does not stand for assault rifle it stands for ArmaLite rifle, a brand. No assault rifle has ever been used in any school shooting going as far back as Columbine.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

at this point everyone should



We're not talking about taking the guns away at this point. Keeping new ones out of the hands of unstable people should be the immediate goal. Law enforcement should do their job and follow up on these reports. This would also require some level of communication that doesn't exist yet but could if anyone really cared. Then they need to solidify the schools. This is national defense and should be treated as such. Doors with strong locks, metal detectors, guards, etc. There's enough pork in the defense budget to get that constitutionally mandated action done many times over

I agree with you completely. There's more than one "issue" here with regards to shootings, as the Roadhouse shooting in Texas last night (probably not random) and the daily news out of Jacksonville (near me) regarding people getting shot. But let's start with the schools, because a child should never have to live in fear of someone coming into their school (or anywhere, for that matter) and shooting them.

Designated Defender program. Operated by whomever has LE authority over the school(s): Governor, Sheriff, Chief of Police, BOE, etc. Two trained, armed, uniformed officers per every building that students are in. Both with sidearms. At least one with a semi-auto carbine that works in hallways (e.g. short-barreled carbine with a red dot optic). They are there for school hours, and every school function (athletics, meetings, etc.). They are not SRO's. If there is an unruly student, somebody smoking weed under the bleachers, etc., that's the SRO's job. The DD's are there for one reason, and one reason only. Reduce the access points to each building to as few as possible, preferably one, and at least one of the DD's is always at or near those access points.

That's the Cliff Notes version. A few of us worked it up about a year ago after a school shooting, including estimated costs, candidate pool, how to set salary, etc. For me, in the largely rural county I live in, to provide DD's at every school in this county would raise my property taxes by roughly one mil (millage rate). Might be a little more, but I'm close. My kids are grown and gone, but I would gladly pay the tax increase to know that we had done all we could (short-term) to ensure or kids are safe in school.

Long-term, it's past time to revisit how we address mental health issues in this nation; enact extremely harsh mandatory sentencing laws for anyone who uses a firearm in the commission of a crime; truth in sentencing; and look for ways to get and keep firearms out of the hands of those who use them to do evil.

Broad brush strokes, I know, but these words come from an LEO, A Constitutional Conservative, and a former member of the NRA. Right-wingers, at least this one, are not the enemy here. Nor are guns. But we have a serious problem on our hands, and it's time to acknowledge it, and address it. On a united front.

Much like the generation(s) that are being wiped out one-by-one in low income neighborhoods, we have a war on our hands. Time to fight it with the right mindset, and the right measures.

JMO.

 

[Grand Vol]

Here is the first problem: "Under federal law, you also must be 21 to buy a handgun from a firearms dealer. But 18-year-olds can buy semiautomatic rifles."

What idiot determined hand guns required more responsibility?

Second problem: NICS the system that checks to see if someone is eligible to buy a firearm is extremely flawed. It pretty much only looks for criminal history when it should be looking for criminal history and mental health issues. It doesn't look for people who have attempted suicide, are a potential danger to themselves or others, have serious underlying mental disorders. Unfortunately now because of HIPAA laws that information may likely never be shared with the NICS.

Couldn't tell you what the history is behind the handgun age requirement.

However, with the mental health history, I think most reasonable pro-2A proponents would agree mental health should be a requirement on the forms. Having said that to say this, the current HIPAA laws prevent it, but also what criteria can and should be used? That's the questions we would like answered prior to something like this going into effect. Some things, depression for instance, are treatable and correctable and would/could cause a temporary withdrawal of a person's ability to own firearms. But what conditions are set to remove them from that revocation list?

LG had a decent idea about it, but it comes down to not only the criteria for getting on the list, but also being able to come off the list. And what gets you on that list to begin with.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Couldn't tell you what the history is behind the handgun age requirement.

However, with the mental health history, I think most reasonable pro-2A proponents would agree mental health should be a requirement on the forms. Having said that to say this, the current HIPAA laws prevent it, but also what criteria can and should be used? That's the questions we would like answered prior to something like this going into effect. Some things, depression for instance, are treatable and correctable and would/could cause a temporary withdrawal of a person's ability to own firearms. But what conditions are set to remove them from that revocation list?

LG had a decent idea about it, but it comes down to not only the criteria for getting on the list, but also being able to come off the list. And what gets you on that list to begin with.

The short-term solution to that, and it's a stop-gap measure, is to get a workable-sized group of legal minds, healthcare professionals, and law enforcement reps in a room, and tell them to stay there until they figure it out. Forget state and local laws and restrictions: this is a national issue.

I know...pipe dream. But we all agree it's time to act, and like I said before: teddy bears, balloons, and protests aren't getting it done.

How you been, GV?

 

[hog88]

.. and when I went to grade school, we had drills to get under the desk in event of a Russian bombing attack, and we lived under fear of a nuclear weapon hitting us.

When I was in HS most of the vehicles in the parking lot had a gun in them especially during hunting season.

 

[hog88]

My kids go through it because there is a real threat. It is happening. You're a perfect example of why nothing will get done from this. You simply don't have a basic understanding of the issues. Have a good day

Go talk about your stupid wall somewhere else

It's not really a big threat when you look at the numbers. There are over 130,000 schools in the US (elementary through HS) and using even the most stringent standards for definition there has only been about 239 school shootings since 2012.

The odds are extremely low that you will ever be affected by one.

 

[Grand Vol]

The short-term solution to that, and it's a stop-gap measure, is to get a workable-sized group of legal minds, healthcare professionals, and law enforcement reps in a room, and tell them to stay there until they figure it out. Forget state and local laws and restrictions: this is a national issue.

I know...pipe dream. But we all agree it's time to act, and like I said before: teddy bears, balloons, and protests aren't getting it done.

How you been, GV?

It's not a pipe dream. It comes down to both sides standing firm and being unwilling to compromise.

 

[BenGrimm]

It's not really a big threat when you look at the numbers. There are over 130,000 schools in the US (elementary through HS) and using even the most stringent standards for definition there has only been about 239 school shootings since 2012.

The odds are extremely low that you will ever be affected by one.

Y’know when Columbine happened I was in shock. I couldn’t understand how anyone could do that. I read every daily report as the story unfolded.

So many have happened since then I see a headline about a school shooting and barely follow up on it. It’s not that I don’t care or my heart doesn’t go out to the victims and their families. It’s just become too normal.every story is the same. Every debate following one is the same.

 

[crusse10]

I don't disagree that criminals will find ways to get guns. My issue is that a lot of these huge homicides aren't done by criminals. Many people in these debates across the internet like to use the term "law-abiding citizen" when talking about themselves. It seems like most of these mass murderers were law-abiding citizens until they weren't. If, at the moment they became law-disobeying citizens, they didn't have easy immediate access to guns, I believe fewer people in America would die.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Guns were just as easy to get when I was a kid, easier actually. Lack of shared culture and commonly accepted sense of morality coupled with desensitization from the entertainment industry is what's changed.

 

[hog88]

I don't disagree that criminals will find ways to get guns. My issue is that a lot of these huge homicides aren't done by criminals. Many people in these debates across the internet like to use the term "law-abiding citizen" when talking about themselves. It seems like most of these mass murderers were law-abiding citizens until they weren't. If, at the moment they became law-disobeying citizens, they didn't have easy immediate access to guns, I believe fewer people in America would die.

Most all of them have 1 thing in common, they were on or had been on anti-depressants or similar drugs.

 

[crusse10]

Lack of shared culture

what do you mean by this?

 

[crusse10]

Most all of them have 1 thing in common, they were on or had been on anti-depressants or similar drugs.

How come many people want no standardized healthcare, then? Wouldn't that make mental health care the most readily available it could be?

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

what do you mean by this?

Everyone's a hyphenated something. We are not one. 911 sort of drew us toget her for a bit, but it didn't last. There are people in this country who get uncomfortable over words like 'red blooded American patriot'. I've heard it described as us being a stew pot instead of a melting pot.

 

[crusse10]

There are people in this country who get uncomfortable over words like 'red blooded American patriot'.

I'd guess that's not at the top of the list of ways in which law-abiding American citizens classify themselves that makes people in this country uncomfortable

 

[hog88]

How come many people want no standardized healthcare, then? Wouldn't that make mental health care the most readily available it could be?

My contention is that we excuse bad behavior and laziness as a mental illness. We have doctors all to willing to prescribe these drugs to people that don’t need them.

 

[Coug]

Couldn't tell you what the history is behind the handgun age requirement.

However, with the mental health history, I think most reasonable pro-2A proponents would agree mental health should be a requirement on the forms. Having said that to say this, the current HIPAA laws prevent it, but also what criteria can and should be used? That's the questions we would like answered prior to something like this going into effect. Some things, depression for instance, are treatable and correctable and would/could cause a temporary withdrawal of a person's ability to own firearms. But what conditions are set to remove them from that revocation list?

LG had a decent idea about it, but it comes down to not only the criteria for getting on the list, but also being able to come off the list. And what gets you on that list to begin with.

Here is a start:

-If you have ever attempted suicide
-If you are bipolar with a history of violence or violent tendencies.
-If you are Schizophrenic, suffer from Schizoaffective disorder, or any other type of Schizophrenia
-Sufferers of PTSD should probably have a temporary hold and be evaluated.
-Antisocial Personality Disorder(serial killers)
-Borderline personality disorder

With regard to adolescents:
-Causing harm to small animals at ANY point in time
-General and ongoing history of violence towards other kids, parents, teachers, etc.
-Diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Should everyone on the list be automatically banned from getting a gun? Not necessarily, but a flag should be raised and if that person is under treatment then their doctor should be contacted. If they're off their meds and/or not currently under a doctor's supervision then, sorry. There are people with disorders who live their lives just fine without hurting anyone and I think a look at their non violent history should be enough to prove they can control themselves around firearms.

A little more digging than just the typical background checks would really make a huge difference in who can own a firearm and who probably shouldn't own a firearm.

 

[ACvol3]

Somebody can get a gun from somewhere if they want one.. same with a knife or a rock.. if somebody is hell bent on killing, it's probably gonna happen some way.

 

[BenGrimm]

Somebody can get a gun from somewhere if they want one.. same with a knife or a rock.. if somebody is hell bent on killing, it's probably gonna happen some way.

If someone is hell bent on doing drugs they are going to get them.

If someone is hell bent on stealing property they are going to do it.

If someone is hell bent on sexuality assualting a child they are going to do it.

If someone is hell bent on crossing the boarder they are going to do it.

I mean... why have laws for anything?

 

[Grand Vol]

Here is a start:

-If you have ever attempted suicide

Disagree with this one because the cause isn't specified.

I'd say most of the time, the situation that causes suicide is temporary like depression. Things that can be overcome and treated. There is no reason to permanently revoke someone's Constitutional Right because of a single incident. Temporary revocation, sure, but not permanent.

If someone shows a history of suicidal tendencies, I agree it would be a reason. But not just based on a single incident.

 

[ACvol3]

If someone is hell bent on doing drugs they are going to get them.

If someone is hell bent on stealing property they are going to do it.

If someone is hell bent on sexuality assualting a child they are going to do it.

If someone is hell bent on crossing the boarder they are going to do it.

I mean... why have laws for anything?

You're right

 

[Hoosier_Vol]

EXCLUSIVE: Indiana school unveils ‘revolutionary’ security system to thwart shootings | FOX59