Alex Poythress

#301
#301
Cal hates Tennessee about as much as I hate Kentucky so it's okay.

Poythress is a special player and I really look forward to seeing him play next year.
 
#302
#302
bleedingTNorange said:
Call me crazy I've been called worse but u disagree. I lived in ky for a year and one of my good friends father is a uk booster. Words from his mouth were if cal doesn't win in the next few years and continues getting knocked out early with the money were paying him the seat will start getting hot.,you don't have to believe me if you don't want but most uk fans will tell you it's all about championships there, the recruiting classes are nice but will get old if they don't win one. I know it's a little different but tubby was ran out because he couldn't win another one. They all claimed the only reason he won the one was it was pitinos players, and he couldn't do it himself. I promise you and you can choose to believe me or not, with what they pay cal if he doesn't win within the next 3-5 years IMO from what I've been told he will be let go. Now as you said he may split first but it isn't impossible for him to be fired.
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Yes, I disagree 100%. True, UK fans want to win championships, but the next best thing is making the Final Four, bragging about how they had the best talent, slobbering all over their five 1st round picks every year, and gloating about having the #1 recruiting class year in and year out.

If Cal can't win them all with the best talent, who is better-suited to come in and accomplish more? They have the most high-profile coach in college basketball. That matters to Kentucky fans. Who is going to come in and make a bigger splash? As long as they keep bringing in All-American after All-American, keep winning 28+ times a year, and keep putting every starter in the draft, then he is going to be fine. He is as revered in Lexington as Pearl was here by fans before the scandal. His philanthropy work in the community and abroad is adored by fans. Their fans love being the first highlight on ESPN. They love that pros that didn't even play for Cal come to UK to train in the offseason. Simply put, they LOVE the exposure someone like Cal brings to the program and spotlight he puts on Kentucky basketball.

You mention getting knocked out early, but they made it to the Elite Eight and Final Four in his only two seasons. If that is getting knocked out early, then people need to lower their expectations. As for the money that they pay him, they could afford to pay him double that amount if they wanted or needed. The Tubby Smith comparison doesn't hold water in my mind. He was fired for losing games, losing the fanbases' confidence, and not bringing in good enough talent. Certainly, all those factors led to not winning championships, but I can assure you that if he had Cal's resume at UK, he wouldn't have been urged to pursue other options. You are right, he did win with Pitino's talent and then failed to bring in similar talent. He also played a starkly different brand of basketball than the run-and-gun game Pitino played.

You will have to excuse me if I fail to accept that the opinion of one booster is iron-clad proof of anything. Like I said, money is no object to that university. We can agree to disagree and I will be happy to admit I was wrong if he is fired in the next 3-5 years. I just don't see it happening simply on the basis of not winning a championship. There are too many other things playing in his favor. It's probably a moot point, because I think he wins one in that time-frame anyhow.
 
#303
#303
cncchris33 said:
Yes, I disagree 100%. True, UK fans want to win championships, but the next best thing is making the Final Four, bragging about how they had the best talent, slobbering all over their five 1st round picks every year, and gloating about having the #1 recruiting class year in and year out.

If Cal can't win them all with the best talent, who is better-suited to come in and accomplish more? They have the most high-profile coach in college basketball. That matters to Kentucky fans. Who is going to come in and make a bigger splash? As long as they keep bringing in All-American after All-American, keep winning 28+ times a year, and keep putting every starter in the draft, then he is going to be fine. He is as revered in Lexington as Pearl was here by fans before the scandal. His philanthropy work in the community and abroad is adored by fans. Their fans love being the first highlight on ESPN. They love that pros that didn't even play for Cal come to UK to train in the offseason. Simply put, they LOVE the exposure someone like Cal brings to the program and spotlight he puts on Kentucky basketball.

You mention getting knocked out early, but they made it to the Elite Eight and Final Four in his only two seasons. If that is getting knocked out early, then people need to lower their expectations. As for the money that they pay him, they could afford to pay him double that amount if they wanted or needed. The Tubby Smith comparison doesn't hold water in my mind. He was fired for losing games, losing the fanbases' confidence, and not bringing in good enough talent. Certainly, all those factors led to not winning championships, but I can assure you that if he had Cal's resume at UK, he wouldn't have been urged to pursue other options. You are right, he did win with Pitino's talent and then failed to bring in similar talent. He also played a starkly different brand of basketball than the run-and-gun game Pitino played.

You will have to excuse me if I fail to accept that the opinion of one booster is iron-clad proof of anything. Like I said, money is no object to that university. We can agree to disagree and I will be happy to admit I was wrong if he is fired in the next 3-5 years. I just don't see it happening simply on the basis of not winning a championship. There are too many other things playing in his favor. It's probably a moot point, because I think he wins one in that time-frame anyhow.
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that is completely fine everyone has their own opinions. ask a uk fan this question, would you rather cal be your coach and you make 4 elite 8's in a row with 5 draft picks on each team or joe schmo be your coach and win a ncaa title with whoever it is he recruits. championships mean everything to them. its not like the only way that they can win is with cal they won before he was there and they will unfortunately win after he is gone as well, thats just the way they are. the dont give a crap who the coach is and yes i understand how loved he is believe me i had to deal with it living there but a bad season or 2 and that love turns to hate and questioning real quick.
 
#304
#304
bleedingTNorange said:
that is completely fine everyone has their own opinions. ask a uk fan this question, would you rather cal be your coach and you make 4 elite 8's in a row with 5 draft picks on each team or joe schmo be your coach and win a ncaa title with whoever it is he recruits. championships mean everything to them. its not like the only way that they can win is with cal they won before he was there and they will unfortunately win after he is gone as well, thats just the way they are. the dont give a crap who the coach is and yes i understand how loved he is believe me i had to deal with it living there but a bad season or 2 and that love turns to hate and questioning real quick.
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I guess that's where we differ in opinion. We have different definitions of a "bad season". To you, a bad season for Cal and his talent level is anything short of a title. With the parity that exists in the men's game today, I just think that is a ridiculous expectation.

As for your hypothetical question as to whether you would rather play in Final Four's and Elite Eight's, obviously, the goal is to win it all. My point is, Cal gives them the best chance to do that IMO, given his connections and his recruiting ability. The system of bringing in the best talent will win out eventually, perhaps this year with the way they defend.

Essentially, your question could be re-phrased using these names; "Would a UK fan rather have Tubby Smith (a man who won a title there mixed in many average seasons by UK standards) or John Calipari, who will have them in the hunt every year?". You know the answer. Reasonable UK fans know Cal gives them the best chance to win.
 
#305
#305
cncchris33 said:
I guess that's where we differ in opinion. We have different definitions of a "bad season". To you, a bad season for Cal and his talent level is anything short of a title. With the parity that exists in the men's game today, I just think that is a ridiculous expectation.

As for your hypothetical question as to whether you would rather play in Final Four's and Elite Eight's, obviously, the goal is to win it all. My point is, Cal gives them the best chance to do that IMO, given his connections and his recruiting ability. The system of bringing in the best talent will win out eventually, perhaps this year with the way they defend.

Essentially, your question could be re-phrased using these names; "Would a UK fan rather have Tubby Smith (a man who won a title there mixed in many average seasons by UK standards) or John Calipari, who will have them in the hunt every year?". You know the answer. Reasonable UK fans know Cal gives them the best chance to win.
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no i dont think a bad season is anything but i title i would say depending on the year anything less than an elite 8 would be. i know he has made it that far so far im just saying IF they were to have a few of those bad years, mixed in with no championships that thatd be bad news for him.

as far as cal being your best chance to win it i dont know that i agree with that. when is the last time he won a championship...........? he had talent pretty similar at memphis for most of his years and was unable to win a championship there either, so i dont know that you can say he gives you your best chance. now im also not saying that there is someone that gives you a better chance, but that is where the irrational thinking comes in from the fans. they dont care about what they can get to replace it if you arent performing to the level they expect year after year then they want a change. the system of bringing in the best talent has yet to work for cal what makes you say that it will? exactly they would want a change from tubby to cal because tubby wasnt providing the what have you done for me lately so they want a change. same can be said for cal if year after year they come up short and if they get knocked out in sweet 16 or 2nd round a few times uk fans will be restless.
 
#306
#306
bleedingTNorange said:
no i dont think a bad season is anything but i title i would say depending on the year anything less than an elite 8 would be. i know he has made it that far so far im just saying IF they were to have a few of those bad years, mixed in with no championships that thatd be bad news for him.

as far as cal being your best chance to win it i dont know that i agree with that. when is the last time he won a championship...........? he had talent pretty similar at memphis for most of his years and was unable to win a championship there either, so i dont know that you can say he gives you your best chance. now im also not saying that there is someone that gives you a better chance, but that is where the irrational thinking comes in from the fans. they dont care about what they can get to replace it if you arent performing to the level they expect year after year then they want a change. the system of bringing in the best talent has yet to work for cal what makes you say that it will? exactly they would want a change from tubby to cal because tubby wasnt providing the what have you done for me lately so they want a change. same can be said for cal if year after year they come up short and if they get knocked out in sweet 16 or 2nd round a few times uk fans will be restless.
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Cal's overall talent level at UK is 10x better than it ever was at Memphis. Come on, you know better than that.
 
#307
#307
bleedingTNorange said:
no i dont think a bad season is anything but i title i would say depending on the year anything less than an elite 8 would be. i know he has made it that far so far im just saying IF they were to have a few of those bad years, mixed in with no championships that thatd be bad news for him.

as far as cal being your best chance to win it i dont know that i agree with that. when is the last time he won a championship...........? he had talent pretty similar at memphis for most of his years and was unable to win a championship there either, so i dont know that you can say he gives you your best chance. now im also not saying that there is someone that gives you a better chance, but that is where the irrational thinking comes in from the fans. they dont care about what they can get to replace it if you arent performing to the level they expect year after year then they want a change. the system of bringing in the best talent has yet to work for cal what makes you say that it will? exactly they would want a change from tubby to cal because tubby wasnt providing the what have you done for me lately so they want a change. same can be said for cal if year after year they come up short and if they get knocked out in sweet 16 or 2nd round a few times uk fans will be restless.
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Also, you are changing the parameters by introducing the possibility of losing in the second round of the NCAA tourney a few times. We both know that is extremely unlikely with his talent level, especially given the fact that he only plans to coach seven more seasons at most. That would essentially be half of the remainder of his tenure.

The reason I believe his method of recruiting will be successful is based simply on odds. You say it hasn't happened yet, but he's only coached two full seasons and made the Elite Eight and Final Four, so he's in the neighborhood. With his team defense this year, I think they have an excellent chance to do it this year.
 
#308
#308
cncchris33 said:
Cal's overall talent level at UK is 10x better than it ever was at Memphis. Come on, you know better than that.
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It's better at uk yes but not 10x better. In his last 4 years at Memphis he brought in 3 top 5 classes, no other team did that in that span. He has been recruiting these types of classes awhile and it's yet to bring him a title.
 
#309
#309
bleedingTNorange said:
It's better at uk yes but not 10x better. In his last 4 years at Memphis he brought in 3 top 5 classes, no other team did that in that span. He has been recruiting these types of classes awhile and it's yet to bring him a title.
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No he didn't. His last 6 classes at Memphis consisted of 1 top-5 class, and that was his last year at Memphis, 2008. That class was ranked #4 based solely on Tyreke Evans and a bunch of guys who still don't start for Memphis as seniors. Of his last three classes, there are exactly two guys in the NBA.

The past three years, he has had the consensus #1
class, and #2 and everyone else wasn't close.

The clout and support system of a major program like UK has allowed him to create a recruiting monster that simply feeds on the class before them.

The talent is 10x better.
 
#310
#310
bleedingTNorange said:
no i dont think a bad season is anything but i title i would say depending on the year anything less than an elite 8 would be. i know he has made it that far so far im just saying IF they were to have a few of those bad years, mixed in with no championships that thatd be bad news for him.

as far as cal being your best chance to win it i dont know that i agree with that. when is the last time he won a championship...........? he had talent pretty similar at memphis for most of his years and was unable to win a championship there either, so i dont know that you can say he gives you your best chance. now im also not saying that there is someone that gives you a better chance, but that is where the irrational thinking comes in from the fans. they dont care about what they can get to replace it if you arent performing to the level they expect year after year then they want a change. the system of bringing in the best talent has yet to work for cal what makes you say that it will? exactly they would want a change from tubby to cal because tubby wasnt providing the what have you done for me lately so they want a change. same can be said for cal if year after year they come up short and if they get knocked out in sweet 16 or 2nd round a few times uk fans will be restless.
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With all the UK fans I know, while they love Cal, they love him because they believe he will get a title. Losses in the FF ring on the same drunken cuss filled tirades that a loss in the 1st or 2nd round would, and none of them are remotely satisfied. They believe that every year should be a title year. With their talent, I can't blame them.

I'm just saying that three or four more years with the best talent on the floor consistently, and no title will make Lexington a mighty upset town.

They don't celebrate almost, they recite championship seasons, and that won't change because they like Cal.
 
#311
#311
RhodesVol said:
With all the UK fans I know, while they love Cal, they love him because they believe he will get a title. Losses in the FF ring on the same drunken cuss filled tirades that a loss in the 1st or 2nd round would, and none of them are remotely satisfied. They believe that every year should be a title year. With their talent, I can't blame them.

I'm just saying that three or four more years with the best talent on the floor consistently, and no title will make Lexington a mighty upset town.

They don't celebrate almost, they recite championship seasons, and that won't change because they like Cal.
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Those don't sound like rational fans. Of course, you're always going to have the perpetually hopeless hillbillies with unreal expectations. The people who pay the money and make the decisions know what they have with him. Like I said, Cal will leave on his own before he is fired.
 
#312
#312
cncchris33 said:
Those don't sound like rational fans. Of course, you're always going to have the perpetually hopeless hillbillies with unreal expectations. The people who pay the money and make the decisions know what they have with him. Like I said, Cal will leave on his own before he is fired.
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Rational fans? Are we talking about the same Kentucky basketball program, because I'm pretty sure I have met few rational UK fans in all the years I've been following the sport.
 
#313
#313
RhodesVol said:
Rational fans? Are we talking about the same Kentucky basketball program, because I'm pretty sure I have met few rational UK fans in all the years I've been following the sport.
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Touche. The average UK fan is irrational as they come, but they don't make the decisions
 
#314
#314
cncchris33 said:
Touche. The average UK fan is irrational as they come, but they don't make the decisions
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While that's absolutely true, the boosters and AD do take the unrest of the fanbase into consideration when things are bad. He'll probably go out on his own terms, and he'll likely win one before he's done. It could be this year for all I know, but if he underperforms at all, they aren't extremely forgiving.
 
#315
#315
RhodesVol said:
While that's absolutely true, the boosters and AD do take the unrest of the fanbase into consideration when things are bad. He'll probably go out on his own terms, and he'll likely win one before he's done. It could be this year for all I know, but if he underperforms at all, they aren't extremely forgiving.
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Agreed. Depends on one's definition of under-performing. If he strings together a couple of second round losses, the fanbase should be upset. I just don't see that happening if he continues to attract the type talent he has thus far.
 
#316
#316
cncchris33 said:
No he didn't. His last 6 classes at Memphis consisted of 1 top-5 class, and that was his last year at Memphis, 2008. That class was ranked #4 based solely on Tyreke Evans and a bunch of guys who still don't start for Memphis as seniors. Of his last three classes, there are exactly two guys in the NBA.

The past three years, he has had the consensus #1
class, and #2 and everyone else wasn't close.

The clout and support system of a major program like UK has allowed him to create a recruiting monster that simply feeds on the class before them.

The talent is 10x better.
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Well the sight I looked at had him 4 or 5 for 3 of his last 4 years. As said there's arguing it was the level he'd bringing in at uk but still..

3 classes, 2 in NBA x10=20 for 10x better

Does he have 20 NBA guys in 3 years at uk
 
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#317
#317
He's put 8 guys in the NBA from Memphis in the NBA since 06. So in his last 3 years he put 8 guys in, they may not have been one and dones but to act as if he didn't have a lot of talent on those teams isn't true. So 8 guys divided by 3 is 2.6 nba players on each of his last 3 Memphis teams. At uk in 2 years has out 8 guys in the NBA that's 4 on each team. 4 players is not 10x more than 2.6, just saying. In his tenure at Memphis, 9 years, he put 11 guys in that's 1.2 nba players on each team, 10x better is 12 nba players on each team.

As I said I know he has a lot more talent on these uk teams that's clear but to act as if he hasn't had teams with talent before isn't true. Since 2000 this has been his style getting top tier talent to play for him. Unc has 14 guys to have been in the NBA since 2000. Duke has put 13 guys into the NBA since 2000. Connecticut has put 11 guys into the NBA since 2000. Kansas has had 13 players in the NBA since 2000. Meanwhile cal since 2000 has has 18 that I've come up with maybe a couple more. So point being since 2000 cal has had the most talent of any college coach in the country. The other 4 that trail him all have won atleast one if not multiple championships since 2000, cal is doing less with more talent than anyone.
 
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#320
#320
cncchris33 said:
Simply put, they LOVE the exposure someone like Cal brings to the program and spotlight he puts on Kentucky basketball.
.
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Yes, without Cal, kentucky basketball tradition would be nothing.

Tbh, if Cal ever wins a Championship with freshmen Ill be shocked. I dont see it with him. He needs to develop players.
 
#321
#321
BigPapaCat said:
Yes, without Cal, kentucky basketball tradition would be nothing.

Tbh, if Cal ever wins a Championship with freshmen Ill be shocked. I dont see it with him. He needs to develop players.
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So question to a uk fan. If in 3 more years cal has yet to win a championship, let's say 1 final four an elite 8 and a second round knock out. Is BBN starting to rumble a bit, assuming he brings in top 3 classes as well all those years.
 
#322
#322
bleedingTNorange said:
So question to a uk fan. If in 3 more years cal has yet to win a championship, let's say 1 final four an elite 8 and a second round knock out. Is BBN starting to rumble a bit, assuming he brings in top 3 classes as well all those years.
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A good portion of them will. Hell, some of them already are with the "Can't win with one and done and no good local Kentucky boy with heart to carry them through" argument. If in 3 seasons (not including this one) Cal has that exact stretch you mentioned, I'd say he takes a job up in the league and says adios, if it is a prime opportunity.
 
#323
#323
Hardwood_fanatic said:
A good portion of them will. Hell, some of them already are with the "Can't win with one and done and no good local Kentucky boy with heart to carry them through" argument. If in 3 seasons (not including this one) Cal has that exact stretch you mentioned, I'd say he takes a job up in the league and says adios, if it is a prime opportunity.
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Thanks for the input from my consensus of UK fans that seems to be the common thought. As you said he probably will leave on his own if he starts feeling the seat getting hotter. When does his contract go through?
 
#324
#324
Hardwood_fanatic said:
A good portion of them will. Hell, some of them already are with the "Can't win with one and done and no good local Kentucky boy with heart to carry them through" argument. If in 3 seasons (not including this one) Cal has that exact stretch you mentioned, I'd say he takes a job up in the league and says adios, if it is a prime opportunity.
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What is your opinion on him though. Should he be kept without championships being won? How do you feel about it? Thanks
 
#325
#325
bleedingTNorange said:
Well the sight I looked at had him 4 or 5 for 3 of his last 4 years. As said there's arguing it was the level he'd bringing in at uk but still..

3 classes, 2 in NBA x10=20 for 10x better

Does he have 20 NBA guys in 3 years at uk
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LOL that you actually tried to make a math equation out of my example. Obviously, I wasn't being literal by saying 10x better. I can't believe I even have to clarify that. If I had said 100x better, would you have seriously multiplied by 100 and tried to use that as an example of how I was wrong? You are just being argumentative.

Suffice to say, outside of Derrick Rose and Tyreke Evans, any objective person knows that the talent level he has recruited at UK is on a whole different level. Name one other player he signed in his last 4 seasons at Memphis that would have ever started at UK for him since he's been there.

Also, keep in mind, Cal has only had two draft classes. In two years, 9 players from UK (6 of which Cal signed) have been drafted. All 6 of his signees drafted were 1st rounders.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I just fail to see how the comparison between his talent at Memphis and UK is nearly as close as you make it out to be.
 
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