Alex Poythress

[cncchris33]

He's put 8 guys in the NBA from Memphis in the NBA since 06. So in his last 3 years he put 8 guys in, they may not have been one and dones but to act as if he didn't have a lot of talent on those teams isn't true.

Wrong. Cal put 7 players in the NBA in his last four years, not three. Conversely, he has put 9 guys in the NBA in 2 years at UK. He may not have recruited them all, but you can rest assure that there is no way Josh Harrellson and DeAndre Liggins were getting drafted if Gillispie were still coaching them. He turned those guys into draftable players.

You are putting words in my mouth if you claim I said he didn't have a lot of talent in Memphis. I never said that. I only said that he has recruited a whole different level of talent at Kentucky. Rather than having one marquee name along with a lot of other solid players. He is signing 4-5 marquee names and one solid player.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

LOL that you actually tried to make a math equation out of my example. Obviously, I wasn't being literal by saying 10x better. I can't believe I even have to clarify that. If I had said 100x better, would you have seriously multiplied by 100 and tried to use that as an example of how I was wrong? You are just being argumentative.

Suffice to say, outside of Derrick Rose and Tyreke Evans, any objective person knows that the talent level he has recruited at UK is on a whole different level. Name one other player he signed in his last 4 seasons at Memphis that would have ever started at UK for him since he's been there.

Also, keep in mind, Cal has only had two draft classes. In two years, 9 players from UK (6 of which Cal signed) have been drafted. All 6 of his signees drafted were 1st rounders.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I just fail to see how the comparison between his talent at Memphis and UK is nearly as close as you make it out to be.

i was more or less being a smart A, i just was pointing out that the talent level wasnt the disparity you were making it out to be at 10x better. but no it's really not all that close what he is doing at UK is honestly nothing short of amazing, i was just making a point that while at memphis he brought in great classes as well. at memphis he brought in consistent top 10 classes in the last 5 years or so except for 1 year i believe it was a 25 class, how dare he. to any other program even the nc's or duke's, cal's recruiting at memphis was better. no matter what though you cant compare it to what he is bringing in at UK, it honestly is a freaking NBA team every year. look at his team this year, ridiculous, teague lottery, lamb lottery, gilchrist lottery, jones lottery, davis lottery miller 2nd round. that is freaking insane, but that also goes back to my point with this talent he brings in he is going to be judged at a much higher standard. most people are going to look at this and say how is it possible that you have 5 nba starters in your starting 5 and cant win a championhsip.

as said the talent level doesnt compare between the schools, quite honestly i dont know that there has ever been a program that has recruited like cal has now for 3 years. with that said, that is my point no coach in college basketball has done less than cal with lesser talent as well. cal has been the least succesful out of all the coaches who has put a high amount of players into the NBA in the last decade.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Wrong. Cal put 7 players in the NBA in his last four years, not three. Conversely, he has put 9 guys in the NBA in 2 years at UK. He may not have recruited them all, but you can rest assure that there is no way Josh Harrellson and DeAndre Liggins were getting drafted if Gillispie were still coaching them. He turned those guys into draftable players.

You are putting words in my mouth if you claim I said he didn't have a lot of talent in Memphis. I never said that. I only said that he has recruited a whole different level of talent at Kentucky. Rather than having one marquee name along with a lot of other solid players. He is signing 4-5 marquee names and one solid player.

i agree with this, but the point is he has done far less with more talent than any of the other coaches who had comparible talent on their teams. thats all my point was, was that this style that he is using has not been proven to win a championship as you stated he would be able to with it. im not saying he wont, but you said that this was the best way to do it was with his style and that isnt true as proved by cal's track record.

 

[RhodesVol]

i was more or less being a smart A, i just was pointing out that the talent level wasnt the disparity you were making it out to be at 10x better. but no it's really not all that close what he is doing at UK is honestly nothing short of amazing, i was just making a point that while at memphis he brought in great classes as well. at memphis he brought in consistent top 10 classes in the last 5 years or so except for 1 year i believe it was a 25 class, how dare he. to any other program even the nc's or duke's, cal's recruiting at memphis was better. no matter what though you cant compare it to what he is bringing in at UK, it honestly is a freaking NBA team every year. look at his team this year, ridiculous, teague lottery, lamb lottery, gilchrist lottery, jones lottery, davis lottery miller 2nd round. that is freaking insane, but that also goes back to my point with this talent he brings in he is going to be judged at a much higher standard. most people are going to look at this and say how is it possible that you have 5 nba starters in your starting 5 and cant win a championhsip.

as said the talent level doesnt compare between the schools, quite honestly i dont know that there has ever been a program that has recruited like cal has now for 3 years. with that said, that is my point no coach in college basketball has done less than cal with lesser talent as well. cal has been the least succesful out of all the coaches who has put a high amount of players into the NBA in the last decade.

I definitely agree with this, and the expectations at Kentucky are as high as anywhere in the nation. His NBA players will need to translate into wins in the tourney, or people will become unsettling in Lexington eventually.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I definitely agree with this, and the expectations at Kentucky are as high as anywhere in the nation. His NBA players will need to translate into wins in the tourney, or people will become unsettling in Lexington eventually.

exactly. as unrational as it may sound UK fans and even boosters and alum have the mindset that if they dont win a championship its a dissapointing season. honestly 1 or 2 years of ff or elite 8 is way too early to make a decision like that, but if the next 3 years bring an elite 8 a final 4 and a sweet 16 or 2nd round lose i fully expect the seat to start getting warm.

 

[cncchris33]

A good portion of them will. Hell, some of them already are with the "Can't win with one and done and no good local Kentucky boy with heart to carry them through" argument. If in 3 seasons (not including this one) Cal has that exact stretch you mentioned, I'd say he takes a job up in the league and says adios, if it is a prime opportunity.

I agree. Like I said earlier, and you share the sentiment, there are some goofballs that already want him gone because he isn't recruiting the hollars of Elliot County and signing the good ole white boys that give 110%. Those are not rational fans. They don't make the decisions.

Again, if you start talking about 2nd round losses in the tourney, I can see the unrest in the bluegrass rising, but this scenario is vastly different from the one introduced originally. bleeding08orange claimed UK fans would want him fired for "only" making Elite Eights and Final Fours. Let's keep in mind, Kentucky had not been to a Final Four since 1998 until last year. I think realistically, the best you can hope for, REALISTICALLY, is to be in the hunt. He has done that in his two years and is trending upwards.

 

[kwhite40]

A good portion of them will. Hell, some of them already are with the "Can't win with one and done and no good local Kentucky boy with heart to carry them through" argument. If in 3 seasons (not including this one) Cal has that exact stretch you mentioned, I'd say he takes a job up in the league and says adios, if it is a prime opportunity.

what's your take? Are you happy with getting 1 and dones, do you think he will win one?

 

[RhodesVol]

I agree. Like I said earlier, and you share the sentiment, there are some goofballs that already want him gone because he isn't recruiting the hollars of Elliot County and signing the good ole white boys that give 110%. Those are not rational fans. They don't make the decisions.

Again, if you start talking about 2nd round losses in the tourney, I can see the unrest in the bluegrass rising, but this scenario is vastly different from the one introduced originally. bleeding08orange claimed UK fans would want him fired for "only" making Elite Eights and Final Fours. Let's keep in mind, Kentucky had not been to a Final Four since 1998 until last year. I think realistically, the best you can hope for, REALISTICALLY, is to be in the hunt. He has done that in his two years and is trending upwards.

Hell, I would love to have their tourney record the past two years, and realistically being in the hunt is a great expectation. UK fans just don't typically operate on that wavelength, however. They love reciting their (7?) championships, and that's never gonna change when you've got the history they do.

That said, they're normally really irrational, and should be happy to field a team with the best talent every year. However, I can imagine that if Vol fans had that talent three years in a row, with no championship to show for it, effigy's would be burnt.

 

[DaDuRkEr]

Don't forget that the only reason the number is 9 and not 10 for players Cal got into the league in 2 years is because Terrence Jones decided to stay another year. Honestly, Lamb was probably a 2nd rounder last season as well.

As for naming another marquee player Cal recruited to UM... I am really frustrated that I cannot remember the wing he had there that was all everything... Terrence Jennings keeps coming up in my mind, but I know he was a Loserville guy... ARGH!!! What is his freaking name?!? light skinned, great length, could take it to the rim, get his own shot at will, and was a pretty good 3 pt shooter as well! ... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[DaDuRkEr]

Douglas-Roberts!!! Ha!

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Wrong. Cal put 7 players in the NBA in his last four years, not three. Conversely, he has put 9 guys in the NBA in 2 years at UK. He may not have recruited them all, but you can rest assure that there is no way Josh Harrellson and DeAndre Liggins were getting drafted if Gillispie were still coaching them. He turned those guys into draftable players.

You are putting words in my mouth if you claim I said he didn't have a lot of talent in Memphis. I never said that. I only said that he has recruited a whole different level of talent at Kentucky. Rather than having one marquee name along with a lot of other solid players. He is signing 4-5 marquee names and one solid player.

Tyreke Evans (4th, 2009 NBA Draft)
Robert Dozier (60th, 2009 NBA Draft)
Derrick Rose (1st, 2008 NBA Draft)
Joey Dorsey (33rd, 2008 NBA Draft)
Chris Douglas-Roberts (40th, 2008 NBA Draft)
Darius Washington, Jr. (Undrafted, 2006)
Rodney Carney (16th, 2006 NBA Draft)
Shawne Williams (17th, 2006 NBA Draft)

to the best of my counting, and i do have a tennessee education so ya know, that is 8 in his final 4 years that made it to the nba. once again not trying to say these are nearly the talent that UK has just saying he has made hit his style to have multiple nba guys on his teams no matter where he is. this would be an average of 2 nba players on his memphis teams each year, that obviously doesnt compare to the 5 lottery picks he's been putting out there at UK though.

 

[cncchris33]

Don't forget that the only reason the number is 9 and not 10 for players Cal got into the league in 2 years is because Terrence Jones decided to stay another year. Honestly, Lamb was probably a 2nd rounder last season as well.

As for naming another marquee player Cal recruited to UM... I am really frustrated that I cannot remember the wing he had there that was all everything... Terrence Jennings keeps coming up in my mind, but I know he was a Loserville guy... ARGH!!! What is his freaking name?!? light skinned, great length, could take it to the rim, get his own shot at will, and was a pretty good 3 pt shooter as well! ... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

Shawne Williams? He doesn't fit in the timeframe I used. Think he was drafted in 2005.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Shawne Williams? He doesn't fit in the timeframe I used. Think he was drafted in 2005.

he was thinking of roberts im pretty sure

 

[cncchris33]

Tyreke Evans (4th, 2009 NBA Draft)
Robert Dozier (60th, 2009 NBA Draft)
Derrick Rose (1st, 2008 NBA Draft)
Joey Dorsey (33rd, 2008 NBA Draft)
Chris Douglas-Roberts (40th, 2008 NBA Draft)
Darius Washington, Jr. (Undrafted, 2006)
Rodney Carney (16th, 2006 NBA Draft)
Shawne Williams (17th, 2006 NBA Draft)

to the best of my counting, and i do have a tennessee education so ya know, that is 8 in his final 4 years that made it to the nba. once again not trying to say these are nearly the talent that UK has just saying he has made hit his style to have multiple nba guys on his teams no matter where he is. this would be an average of 2 nba players on his memphis teams each year, that obviously doesnt compare to the 5 lottery picks he's been putting out there at UK though.

Sorry, I wasn't counting the 18 whole games of Darius Washington's illustrious NBA career played for the Spurs in 07. That's a bit of a stretch on your part, but I'll give it to ya.

And in the interest of full disclosure re: your math skills, you originally said last three years. I assumed you meant last four.

 

[RhodesVol]

Sorry, I wasn't counting the 18 whole games of Darius Washington's illustrious NBA career played for the Spurs in 07. That's a bit of a stretch on your part, but I'll give it to ya.

And in the interest of full disclosure re: your math skills, you originally said last three years. I assumed you meant last four.

Man, it was rough watching Washington collapse...especially after those three free throws he missed to get them into the tourney. Ouch.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I agree. Like I said earlier, and you share the sentiment, there are some goofballs that already want him gone because he isn't recruiting the hollars of Elliot County and signing the good ole white boys that give 110%. Those are not rational fans. They don't make the decisions.

Again, if you start talking about 2nd round losses in the tourney, I can see the unrest in the bluegrass rising, but this scenario is vastly different from the one introduced originally. bleeding08orange claimed UK fans would want him fired for "only" making Elite Eights and Final Fours. Let's keep in mind, Kentucky had not been to a Final Four since 1998 until last year. I think realistically, the best you can hope for, REALISTICALLY, is to be in the hunt. He has done that in his two years and is trending upwards.

you are now putting words in my mouth, this is my original explanation to a dissapointing season...Oh I agree 110% I'm not saying the should get rid of him it's just the way that they are, if they don win a championship it's a disappointing season to them. As you said if he is consistently getting to final fours 3/4 years and an elite 8 to go with it, or something close to that it'll e harder. A you touched on though if they get a few early knockouts, or if he has a real bad year thrown in and they miss the dance for some reason that could be cause. Once again, I'm not saying they should because they probably won't find anyone better, especially at bringing in talent, but that school is crazy like that. As you said, they keep losing early and people have already started with the all the one and done guys don't work.


that was what i originially said. later in respoinse to you saying that IMO anything less than a title is a dissapointing season, i said DEPENDING on the year i think less than an elite 8 is unacceptable, which means atleast a sweet 16. such as this year, if this team does not make atleast the elite 8 it will be viewed as a dissapointing season. ask the UK posters on this board what their opinion on this season is if they get knocked out in the sweet 16. they will say a dissapointment.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Don't forget that the only reason the number is 9 and not 10 for players Cal got into the league in 2 years is because Terrence Jones decided to stay another year. Honestly, Lamb was probably a 2nd rounder last season as well.

As for naming another marquee player Cal recruited to UM... I am really frustrated that I cannot remember the wing he had there that was all everything... Terrence Jennings keeps coming up in my mind, but I know he was a Loserville guy... ARGH!!! What is his freaking name?!? light skinned, great length, could take it to the rim, get his own shot at will, and was a pretty good 3 pt shooter as well! ... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

good chance that number is 15 next year, unbelievable, 15 players into the nba in 3 freaking years? are you kidding me.

 

[cncchris33]

i agree with this, but the point is he has done far less with more talent than any of the other coaches who had comparible talent on their teams. thats all my point was, was that this style that he is using has not been proven to win a championship as you stated he would be able to with it. im not saying he wont, but you said that this was the best way to do it was with his style and that isnt true as proved by cal's track record.

I disagree. To say he has done "far less" than anyone is crazy. Has he won a championship yet? No, but he's only had two shots at it and has been close both times.

I never said his style was the "best way" to do anything. If there was some sort of mathematical formula to winning, all coaches would do it the same way. I simply said that I believe having the most talent will eventually win out. That's not some sort of finite statement either. It's simply opinion based on the odds of being physically better than everyone. Each year, Vegas puts odds on who they think will win the NCAA championship, and those odds are largely based on talent. It's the only tangible evidence to make predictions on. Unfortunately, there are so many intangible factors that cannot be measured, and sometimes those outweigh the talent factor.

Cal may never get it done, but it won't be because he didn't have the best available talent to do it with.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Sorry, I wasn't counting the 18 whole games of Darius Washington's illustrious NBA career played for the Spurs in 07. That's a bit of a stretch on your part, but I'll give it to ya.

And in the interest of full disclosure re: your math skills, you originally said last three years. I assumed you meant last four.

i actually didnt realize he only played 18 games or i honestly wouldnt have included him, i dont know why but i was thinking he played a season and then got hurt, wrong guy i guess. i suppose in any regard he did technically get to the league.

yea i saw that on the re-post that was a mistake on my part it was suppose to be four my fault. as ive said now it doesnt compare at all to uk, nothing compares to what cal is doing at uk it is truly insane.

 

[cncchris33]

that is completely fine everyone has their own opinions. ask a uk fan this question, would you rather cal be your coach and you make 4 elite 8's in a row with 5 draft picks on each team or joe schmo be your coach and win a ncaa title with whoever it is he recruits. championships mean everything to them. its not like the only way that they can win is with cal they won before he was there and they will unfortunately win after he is gone as well, thats just the way they are. the dont give a crap who the coach is and yes i understand how loved he is believe me i had to deal with it living there but a bad season or 2 and that love turns to hate and questioning real quick.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but this was your reply earlier, and the parameter I was operating under.

 

[cncchris33]

i actually didnt realize he only played 18 games or i honestly wouldnt have included him, i dont know why but i was thinking he played a season and then got hurt, wrong guy i guess. i suppose in any regard he did technically get to the league.

yea i saw that on the re-post that was a mistake on my part it was suppose to be four my fault. as ive said now it doesnt compare at all to uk, nothing compares to what cal is doing at uk it is truly insane.

Yeah, he has mostly been a career European. He was called up by the Spurs in 07 when Tony Parker was injured. Like I said, I'll give him to ya though. :thumbsup:

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but this was your reply earlier, and the parameter I was operating under.

that was just a hypothetical scenario just like the question i asked hardwood of a final four an elite 8 and a 2nd round loss in the next 3 years. just a hypothetical scenario for the discussion that we were having not what id consider a dissapointing year. for clarification IMO a dissapointing season for kentucky is less than an elite 8 IMO with the talent they have they should absolutely make an elite 8 or more every year.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I disagree. To say he has done "far less" than anyone is crazy. Has he won a championship yet? No, but he's only had two shots at it and has been close both times.
I never said his style was the "best way" to do anything. If there was some sort of mathematical formula to winning, all coaches would do it the same way. I simply said that I believe having the most talent will eventually win out. That's not some sort of finite statement either. It's simply opinion based on the odds of being physically better than everyone. Each year, Vegas puts odds on who they think will win the NCAA championship, and those odds are largely based on talent. It's the only tangible evidence to make predictions on. Unfortunately, there are so many intangible factors that cannot be measured, and sometimes those outweigh the talent factor.

Cal may never get it done, but it won't be because he didn't have the best available talent to do it with.

besides the memphis kansas national championship what other championship game did he play in? im drawing a blank if he did i thought that was it?

 

[cncchris33]

that was just a hypothetical scenario just like the question i asked hardwood of a final four an elite 8 and a 2nd round loss in the next 3 years. just a hypothetical scenario for the discussion that we were having not what id consider a dissapointing year. for clarification IMO a dissapointing season for kentucky is less than an elite 8 IMO with the talent they have they should absolutely make an elite 8 or more every year.

In that case, I agree. They have enough coaching ability and talent year in and year out to make it to the Elite Eight. Fans will be disappointed with anything less than a championship just UT football fans were disappointed finishing 11-2 in the 90's. Should that get the coach fired is the question. I don't think it should, nor do I think it will. Like I said, in the crazy event that it did, Cal's ego is too big to get fired. He will leave on his own.

 

[cncchris33]

besides the memphis kansas national championship what other championship game did he play in? im drawing a blank if he did i thought that was it?

No, meant that he has been in the running the past two seasons with UK. Elite Eight and Final Four respectively. It's not like he has all this talent and struggles to get in the tourney, or can't break out of the Sweet Sixteen.

Edit: Looking back, I can see how that was confusing. He has only made it to the championship game once. He did make the Final Four with UMASS in 96, though you won't find it in the record books.