Are Asian Americans “White Adjacent”?

[n_huffhines]

You asked if they faced IR. I said yes, they do.
And in spite of that - they are thriving.

But the article and thread is about Identity Politics and if Asian Americans are too successful to be considered “minority” - it is not a discussion on whether they face IR.

Do you believe Asian Americans are unfairly labeled/treated/viewed by other minorities due to their success? That is really the point of this.

OP uses the term white adjacency and CRT as the foundation of the conversation, with the explicit indication that the success of Asian Americans pokes holes in CRT.

You are telling me that defining WA and explaining that it doesn't have to do with "success" nor does this poke holes in CRT is out of bounds?

This is all time moving the goal posts.

 

[McDad]

No, I do not. I don't know all that much about CRT or passing* or any of this, but I am able to defend it OK because people attacking it don't know that much about it either.

Strangely, the only reference on Wikipedia to white adjacency was by somebody named Rhea Rahman who wrote about the adjacency of Muslims vs. radical black Muslims which actually makes a lot of sense to me as a concept, and creates a picture that is less confusing (it's not based on the success of the group or this concept of being "too white"). Nothing about Asian Americans and WA in all of wiki land.

*The term that is most commonly used relating to this idea of white adjacency.

This is my first exposure to passing so I appreciate you sharing and expanding the term. I don't know enough about CRT to form an opinion. It may be brilliant. It may be bunk. I do know how I feel about further parsing Americans inot separate groups.

To be candid, my bandwidth is very minimal on "issues" like this.

 

[landscapingvol]

OP uses the term white adjacency and CRT as the foundation of the conversation, with the explicit indication that the success of Asian Americans pokes holes in CRT.

You are telling me that defining WA and explaining that it doesn't have to do with "success" nor does this poke holes in CRT is out of bounds?

This is all time moving the goal posts.

Virtually every subgroup pokes holes in CRT except for one and it has nothing to do with systemic racism and everything to do with culture. Until African Americans address their cultural issues when it comes to family dynamics and education, nothing will change. To even have this conversation with many people on the Left today would be considered racist because I am white.

 

[n_huffhines]

This is my first exposure to passing so I appreciate you sharing and expanding the term. I don't know enough about CRT to form an opinion. It may be brilliant. It may be bunk. I do know how I feel about further parsing Americans inot separate groups.

To be candid, my bandwidth is very minimal on "issues" like this.

CRT is just a branch of critical theory. As with all soft sciences, there is good and bad. People on the right find (or assume) certain problematic things about it and then dismiss the whole discipline, but that is incredibly flawed. You could do the same thing with any branch of economics, sociology, psychology, etc. and you would be wrong to do that in every case. Even Marx had some things right and made very compelling cases for them (like free trade).

From what I can tell, CRT is right quite often about the sources of some of our issues. What I think they get less right is their conclusions and solutions, but opposing them at every turn is also a bad solution.

 

[SamRebel35]

What does this mean? Are you saying because Asian Americans succeed that there is no institutional racism?

Asian Americans are basically all self-selected immigrants or the children/grandchildren of immigrants. You are comparing them to people who were slaves for generations then also conditioned by generations of the Jim Crow era (many of the laws are still on the books) and then generations in the era of the war on drugs...it's not a valid comparison for discussing institutional racism and CRT.

All this proves is that you don't have to be white to succeed in America, which all of us know, and in no way refutes CRT.

The bold is not at all the point of the article. It is the opposite. I read this as Asians are not succeeding as much as they could because of the Institutional racism that exists in the college admissions process. Race conscious admissions is the ultimate racism. It is literally a way of trying to slow down one race from becoming more successful. That it is happening in the name of CRT by labeling the Asians as "white adjacent" (whatever the f*** that means), is irrelevant. Like other forms of institutional racism, it doesn't matter if it is intentional or not, the end result is that one race is being hindered for the benefit of others.

 

[LadyVolette]

Asians have out-whited white people.

As a demographic, their test scores surpass everyone’s, as well as their their earning power lol.. we should all want to be lumped in with them now .. but I find myself agreeing with K town (I actually occasionally do lol) that it really shouldn’t matter, but those are the things people like to track and trend

 

[McDad]

CRT is just a branch of critical theory. As with all soft sciences, there is good and bad. People on the right find (or assume) certain problematic things about it and then dismiss the whole discipline, but that is incredibly flawed. You could do the same thing with any branch of economics, sociology, psychology, etc. and you would be wrong to do that in every case. Even Marx had some things right and made very compelling cases for them (like free trade).

From what I can tell, CRT is right quite often about the sources of some of our issues. What I think they get less right is their conclusions and solutions, but opposing them at every turn is also a bad solution.

Generally agree. I find it to be a big problem when the "bad" from soft sciences is adopted at the level of power (government, etc). Ironically, we have a national structure which provides for perfect experimental labs to test out novel theories and ideas for decades (if needed) before adoption on the national level. But we don't approach it that way.

 

[happy-go_vol]

When will they come with group that is "white congruent"

 

[n_huffhines]

Asians value family and hard work

Legal immigrants and their children are very good at conforming to the system (which is what seems to be meant by white adjacency) and being productive. I've seen data that shows they outperform native-born Americans, at large. This is not unique at all to Asian Americans.

 

[McDad]

Legal immigrants and their children are very good at conforming to the system (which is what seems to be meant by white adjacency) and being productive. I've seen data that shows they outperform native-born Americans, at large. This is not unique at all to Asian Americans.

Nigerians are a group who outperform Asians in advanced degrees. Maybe income per capita, too but I would have to verify that.

 

[LadyVolette]

Virtually every subgroup pokes holes in CRT except for one and it has nothing to do with systemic racism and everything to do with culture. Until African Americans address their cultural issues when it comes to family dynamics and education, nothing will change. To even have this conversation with many people on the Left today would be considered racist because I am white.

One of my parents best friends couple when I was growing up are African American, and professional, they have an intact family and prioritize pretty much the same things mine did, similar values.. they have successful kids (more so than me and my siblings). it’s not a secret, that’s pretty much the recipe.. but, you can’t say that (I’m only saying it now because anonymity) .. intact family or in the least a supportive one with good values (let’s not get into what good values are) , but it is the secret sauce

 

[n_huffhines]

Nigerians are a group who outperform Asians in advanced degrees. Maybe income per capita, too but I would have to verify that.

TBH, Nigerians kind of rule. I don't know what Nigeria is like, but what they send to the world is pretty astounding. One of my best friends is son of a Nigerian immigrant, and he's an engineer for Honda and his Dad is a very successful businessman. 2 of the 5 best MMA fighters in the world are Nigerian and they have 3x as many NBA players as any other African country. I think I saw something that said they perform as well as Scandinavians in the US, which is just nuts considering the difference in socioeconomic background.

 

[happy-go_vol]

Legal immigrants and their children are very good at conforming to the system (which is what seems to be meant by white adjacency) and being productive. I've seen data that shows they outperform native-born Americans, at large. This is not unique at all to Asian Americans.

I'd say look at the Asian divorce rate and how their family structure is. I'd say that would explain why they do well and do not follow under a minority status

 

[McDad]

TBH, Nigerians kind of rule. I don't know what Nigeria is like, but what they send to the world is pretty astounding. One of my best friends is son of a Nigerian immigrant, and he's an engineer for Honda and his Dad is a very successful businessman. 2 of the 5 best MMA fighters in the world are Nigerian and they have 3x as many NBA players as any other African country. I think I saw something that said they perform as well as Scandinavians in the US, which is just nuts considering the difference in socioeconomic background.

How would you feel about an immigration policy which prioritizes people from countries who historically do very well in America? I would be in favor of such policy. I know it would never see the light of day because of politics, but I think it is a good idea.

 

[n_huffhines]

How would you feel about an immigration policy which prioritizes people from countries who historically do very well in America? I would be in favor of such policy. I know it would never see the light of day because of politics, but I think it is a good idea.

IDK. I don't know what the right balance is. Just because Nigerians do better as individuals than country X doesn't mean we want relatively more of them. The economy might have more of a need for people from country X. We have this idea that we want to prioritize skilled labor with immigration policy, but I'm also thinking we* want those jobs for Americans, right? There is a perfect balance, and IDK what that balance is.

*I say may the best man win, but I mean the collective "we" and how most of us look at it.

 

[85SugarVol]

Legal immigrants and their children are very good at conforming to the system (which is what seems to be meant by white adjacency) and being productive. I've seen data that shows they outperform native-born Americans, at large. This is not unique at all to Asian Americans.

And are our Hispanic brethren penalized for that success?

Are they othered, and moved out from under POC?
Are Asian Americans othered for the very same thing, and moved out from under POC?

 

[85SugarVol]

TBH, Nigerians kind of rule. I don't know what Nigeria is like, but what they send to the world is pretty astounding. One of my best friends is son of a Nigerian immigrant, and he's an engineer for Honda and his Dad is a very successful businessman. 2 of the 5 best MMA fighters in the world are Nigerian and they have 3x as many NBA players as any other African country. I think I saw something that said they perform as well as Scandinavians in the US, which is just nuts considering the difference in socioeconomic background.

Would this indicate that Nigerians are not adversely impacted (to the degree) by their “Identity” here?

 

[McDad]

IDK. I don't know what the right balance is. Just because Nigerians do better as individuals than country X doesn't mean we want relatively more of them. The economy might have more of a need for people from country X. We have this idea that we want to prioritize skilled labor with immigration policy, but I'm also thinking we* want those jobs for Americans, right? There is a perfect balance, and IDK what that balance is.

*I say may the best man win, but I mean the collective "we" and how most of us look at it.

That's a free market approach. Let the market place figure out the balance. Under that system, America would have to "fail" immigrants who didn't make the cut by sending them back to their country of origin. Which of course, is another non-starter.

 

[Godfatha]

Yeah, it's all on the left.

I don't see a lot of identity politics, categorizing and lumping together groups of people coming from the right, unless you consider the focus of illegal immigration to be that.

 

[n_huffhines]

And are our Hispanic brethren penalized for that success?

Are they othered, and moved out from under POC?
Are Asian Americans othered for the very same thing, and moved out from under POC?

If Harvard wants their student body to reflect what America looks like, I do not view that as a penalty for success. I just view it as a quota.

Who is actually saying Asians are not POC's?

 

[n_huffhines]

I don't see a lot of identity politics, categorizing and lumping together groups of people coming from the right, unless you consider the focus of illegal immigration to be that.

Why wouldn't I?

You ever heard of the transgender controversy in America?

 

[Godfatha]

TBH, Nigerians kind of rule. I don't know what Nigeria is like, but what they send to the world is pretty astounding. One of my best friends is son of a Nigerian immigrant, and he's an engineer for Honda and his Dad is a very successful businessman. 2 of the 5 best MMA fighters in the world are Nigerian and they have 3x as many NBA players as any other African country. I think I saw something that said they perform as well as Scandinavians in the US, which is just nuts considering the difference in socioeconomic background.

I think it is just a matter of family structure and society there. We are probably also seeing the best educated and more wealthy coming from there. I was curious what Nigeria's education rankings were, so I looked it up and it's not very good.

 

[n_huffhines]

Would this indicate that Nigerians are not adversely impacted (to the degree) by their “Identity” here?

I don't know what you're asking

 

[Godfatha]

Why wouldn't I?

You ever heard of the transgender controversy in America?

I have, but I don't consider it much of a controversy. People have the right to be what they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

 

[McDad]

If Harvard wants their student body to reflect what America looks like, I do not view that as a penalty for success. I just view it as a quota.

Who is actually saying Asians are not POC's?

Harvard is a private school. I think they can do what they want. However, Harvard should self finance those students they choose because they shouldn't have access to federal student loan/grant money.