Bashing needs to stop

[Orangeslice13]

I think they both digressed at the end of the season. I know our Octobers are a gauntlet, but our defense has went absolutely incompetent at the end of this year. We can't even have someone be in position to look slow or get out athleted.

I think its possible we are just that bad. Again I could be wrong. The kids clearly respond to Coach Butch and they clearly quit on Coach Dooley.
Should we have beaten Vandy? This years team should have 7 out of 10 times.

Will we be in better shape next year?
It all depends on QB play imo.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Ah yes, get mad because I was correct.

Dooley was putrid and I was one of the first and most vocal on here about that.

Again, I'm very confident in my stance on Jones.

But you keep on with the criticism of him, you'll be in the same place you were on Dooley. Wrong.

I will give you that. You called Dooley early.
After year one with Dooley I was 55% negative but didn't really think he was done till the end of year 2. Right now I'm the on the other end of things with Coach Jones. Recuiting and the players attitude have me leaning positive.

 

[GoVols15]

Good coming out of the gate, but not much down the stretch that's for certain.

Here we go again ... Don't you think TALENT, DEPTH, and the STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE were the primary reasons for the "crap" you speak of? Come on man!

 

[volfan411]

Ah yes, get mad because I was correct.

Dooley was putrid and I was one of the first and most vocal on here about that.

Again, I'm very confident in my stance on Jones.

But you keep on with the criticism of him, you'll be in the same place you were on Dooley. Wrong.

I think Dooley was bad to but I am beginning to think I underestimated the shape of our roster. Dooley may have been incompetent but he did have quality assistance that were pursued by other schools at the end of every season he was here and I have to think they were not teaching the bad habits we have seen in these players the same way I do not think the current staff teaches bad habits.

 

[sjt18]

Ah yes, get mad because I was correct.

You weren't... and aren't... and never really have been.

Dooley was putrid and I was one of the first and most vocal on here about that.

Yet he and his first staff took a very similar situation and did more with it than Jones has.... but you have to deny that, don't you?

Again, I'm very confident in my stance on Jones.

But you keep on with the criticism of him, you'll be in the same place you were on Dooley. Wrong.

I wasn't wrong on Dooley. Go back to his hiring when everyone else was "giddy". I said he started behind the 8 ball, had less than a 50% chance of success, and would be fired if he didn't do somethng significant by year 3.

Just like now... I just didn't have some emotional or shallow reaction to a coach who had proven nothing. The only difference between me NOW and during Dooley's time is that I have learned that witholding criticism does no good.

I WISH I saw ANYTHING in the coaching of the '13 Vols that suggested these guys are an SEC caliber staff. If you do... please point it out. What players are better for having been coached by this staff? Show me how the record of this team is better than it would have been with one of the several coaches UT pursued before Jones.

What "REASON" do you have for that confidence other than his record against very weak competition at Cincy... which included a beat down from Dooley?

 

[Pig Skin]

I think its possible we are just that bad. Again I could be wrong. The kids clearly respond to Coach Butch and they clearly quit on Coach Dooley.
Should we have beaten Vandy? This years team should have 7 out of 10 times.

Will we be in better shape next year?
It all depends on QB play imo.

Oh, we are bad- really bad. Anyone denying that is delusional. But even bad players can be in the same area code of their responsibility. We aren't. They do respond, but we're not seeing an overabundance of that on the field right now. 3rd & 1 to ice the game? Dang fellas, grab your jock and make something happen instead of a 2 yard loss. Maybe there's too much quit in this bunch. These seniors have quit 3 years in a row now. It's frustrating for everyone.

 

[Pig Skin]

Here we go again ... Don't you think TALENT, DEPTH, and the STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE were the primary reasons for the "crap" you speak of? Come on man!

They didn't help- at all- but the coaching decisions haven't done any favors to mitigate those encumberances.

 

[sjt18]

Here we go again ... Don't you think TALENT, DEPTH, and the STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE were the primary reasons for the "crap" you speak of? Come on man!

No. Failure to compete at the highest level you can... develop talent and depth... get the most out of the roster. Failure to have good gameplans, strategies, playcalling and adjustments... Those are the primary reasons they lost by more than 4 TD's to four different teams for the first time in at least 50 years, lost to Auburn by the largest margin ever, and lost to Vandy for the 2nd straight year in a VERY winnable game for the first time since the 1920's.... not to mention possibly losing 8 games for the first time in the program's history.


Sorry but you cannot excuse a staff that "leads" a team to historic lows.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

You weren't... and aren't... and never really have been.

Yet he and his first staff took a very similar situation and did more with it than Jones has.... but you have to deny that, don't you?

Dooley also had an Nfl qb, 3 nfl receivers (dmo, hunter, da rick) an nfl tight end, more than one playmaker on defense, and a much easier schedule.

Butch has no qb. 1 receiver who was hurt against Vandy. 1 playmaker on defense.


But you have to deny that. Dont you?

 

[Pig Skin]

I WISH I saw ANYTHING in the coaching of the '13 Vols that suggested these guys are an SEC caliber staff. If you do... please point it out. What players are better for having been coached by this staff? Show me how the record of this team is better than it would have been with one of the several coaches UT pursued before Jones.

What "REASON" do you have for that confidence other than his record against very weak competition at Cincy... which included a beat down from Dooley?

Folksy catchphrases?


I'm with you. There has been very few positive as it relates to the on field part of running a program.

 

[sjt18]

UT is had talent deficiencies this year... and some blame those alone for the problems and failures we've seen. MOST of those same folks think next year will be better... after losing the entire OL, leading RB, Palardy, the entire D front 7 and backups, and the only credible back up DB on the team.

Go ahead and get your excuses ready.... It is going to get worse unless this staff does a complete 180 and actually looks like an SEC coaching staff next fall.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Folksy catchphrases?


I'm with you. There has been very few positive as it relates to the on field part of running a program.

Possible 1000yd rusher this year?
Beat a top 10 team?
A replay and 2 inches for beating #6
Worley devolopment till the injury?
Palrady?
Team attitude?
Recuiting?

Just off the top of my mind.
It was not a good year but there are positive signs.
Maybe not enough for some( me included ) but let's at least be honest about the situation.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley also had an Nfl qb, 3 nfl receivers (dmo, hunter, da rick) an nfl tight end, more than one playmaker on defense, and a much easier schedule.

Last year, sure. He collapsed completely and underachieved the talent on the roster by at least 4 games and maybe 6. He made the most incredibly stupid DC hire I have ever seen.

My argument isn't that Dooley '12 did better. He underperformed his roster too... and much worse.

My comparison is with Dooley's first staff before things went completely south. He still wasn't a great coach... but he still did better than Jones has this year.

Butch has no qb.

Yes he does. He has talent at the position. He's had at least two talented QB's on the roster since he arrived. Failure to develop QB's sufficiently does not mean he does not have one. UT isn't the only team this year forced into playing young players... he was FAR less dependent on underclassmen than DD was the first two years.

1 receiver who was hurt against Vandy. 1 playmaker on defense.


But you have to deny that. Dont you?

No. I have to ask "why?" and acknowledge that part of the answer is a lack of talent and part of it is an abject failure on the part of the staff to develop the available talent.

 

[allvol123]

I will give you that. You called Dooley early.
After year one with Dooley I was 55% negative but didn't really think he was done till the end of year 2. Right now I'm the on the other end of things with Coach Jones. Recuiting and the players attitude have me leaning positive.

Things are going to be fine.

People have a hard time understanding the complete mess he took over from Dooley.

These threads are going to be fun to bring up in 2 years.

 

[JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!]

Here we go again ... Don't you think TALENT, DEPTH, and the STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE were the primary reasons for the "crap" you speak of? Come on man!

You defending Dooley now ? or maybe it's that you read on a 2nd grade level.


As to this season, yes talent, depth and schedule contributed to decline but so did poor coaching and it's evident to anyone that was paying attention. Coaches aren't perfect and it's okay to admit that ours isn't either. Coaching and talent have to improve for TN to compete on a weekly basis in the SEC.

 

[BeecherVol]

Ah yes, get mad because I was correct.

Dooley was putrid and I was one of the first and most vocal on here about that.

Again, I'm very confident in my stance on Jones.

But you keep on with the criticism of him, you'll be in the same place you were on Dooley. Wrong.

Jones is a better coach than Dooley comparing the 2.

After a season I feel better about Jones than Dooley. Some of that is personality. That is in no way an endorsement of Jones winning championships here but rather just being better than the last guy and easier to like.

Hopefully I can grab on to something else next year because that will not hold up forever.

 

[Pig Skin]

Dooley also had an Nfl qb, 3 nfl receivers (dmo, hunter, da rick) an nfl tight end, more than one playmaker on defense, and a much easier schedule.

Butch has no qb. 1 receiver who was hurt against Vandy. 1 playmaker on defense.


But you have to deny that. Dont you?

Well, he could have adapted his offense a bit to mitigate those issues as much as possible rather than highlighting them by insisting on the offense being based on a concept where a QB must be a threat to run, the OL must be capable of holding blocks for 3 seconds to allow plays to develop, and running back that have quick bursts, no?

What was done was to run the QB read with a QB that would never read much less keep. And if he did, he looked like Fred Flinstone peddling in place trying to get his car started. We tried to use 320+ pound big uglies as pullers & expected them to hold blocks even longer even after it has been shown for 3 years that they're not the greatest at getting a push off the ball long enough for a quick hitter much less a play that you could time with a sun dial waiting to develop. When the backs did get the ball, they were too slow to make ip for all the negatives previously mention.

Some of our best runs were quick hitters when giving it to Lane. We rarely did that.

No?

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Last year, sure. He collapsed completely and underachieved the talent on the roster by at least 4 games and maybe 6. He made the most incredibly stupid DC hire I have ever seen.

My argument isn't that Dooley '12 did better. He underperformed his roster too... and much worse.

My comparison is with Dooley's first staff before things went completely south. He still wasn't a great coach... but he still did better than Jones has this year.

Yes he does. He has talent at the position. He's had at least two talented QB's on the roster since he arrived. Failure to develop QB's sufficiently does not mean he does not have one. UT isn't the only team this year forced into playing young players... he was FAR less dependent on underclassmen than DD was the first two years.



No. I have to ask "why?" and acknowledge that part of the answer is a lack of talent and part of it is an abject failure on the part of the staff to develop the available talent.

Dmo, Hunter, da rick, luke stocker, janzen jackson were in Dooleys first year.


The offer list on Dobbs says otherwise. How many Sec offers? Worley wasn't recruited by USC or Clemson.

This is the SEC. You have to have talent. You can't just coach up bad players and win. You can't out scheme people. This isn't high school.

 

[allvol123]

Breaking News:

Jones unable to turn around Dooley boondoggle in 10 months. Returning talented offensive skill players were sought for answers, but none could be found.

Dimwits everywhere shocked.

 

[BeecherVol]

Well, he could have adapted his offense a bit to mitigate those issues as much as possible rather than highlighting them by insisting on the offense being based on a concept where a QB must be a threat to run, the OL must be capable of holding blocks for 3 seconds to allow plays to develop, and running back that have quick bursts, no?

What was done was to run the QB read with a QB that would never read much less keep. And if he did, he looked like Fred Flinstone peddling in place trying to get his car started. We tried to use 320+ pound big uglies as pullers & expected them to hold blocks even longer even after it has been shown for 3 years that they're not the greatest at getting a push off the ball long enough for a quick hitter much less a play that you could time with a sun dial waiting to develop. When the backs did get the ball, they were too slow to make ip for all the negatives previously mention.

Some of our best runs were quick hitters when giving it to Lane. We rarely did that.

No?

Hard to argue with any of that.

I'm not a fan of the scheme.

 

[knoxvols11]

I think its possible we are just that bad. Again I could be wrong. The kids clearly respond to Coach Butch and they clearly quit on Coach Dooley.
Should we have beaten Vandy? This years team should have 7 out of 10 times.

Will we be in better shape next year?
It all depends on QB play imo.

How have they responded to Butch? They've laid down just as they did last year!

 

[InVOLuntary]

Possible 1000yd rusher this year?
Beat a top 10 team?
A replay and 2 inches for beating #6
Worley devolopment till the injury?
Palrady?
Team attitude?
Recuiting?

Just off the top of my mind.
It was not a good year but there are positive signs.
Maybe not enough for some( me included ) but let's at least be honest about the situation.

Remember, GA was not a sure win if Pig had scored. GA still had a shot to match. Our defense really wasn't doing much to stop them there towards the end.

 

[BeecherVol]

Breaking News:

Jones unable to turn around Dooley boondoggle in 10 months. Returning talented offensive skill players were sought for answers, but none could be found.

Dimwits everywhere shocked.

True.

I remember a lot of the same stuff surfacing after we lost to UNC a few years ago.

 

[allvol123]

True.

I remember a lot of the same stuff surfacing after we lost to UNC a few years ago.

Just look at all the players UF and UGA lost this year.

Their injuries basically brought them down to our level, talent wise. Well closer at least, we had nothing close to a Murray or Gurley to fall back on.

What happened next? They lose games. I guess, amazingly, coaches forget how to coach when the top players are not around. Strange how that happens.

 

[Pig Skin]

Possible 1000yd rusher this year?
Beat a top 10 team?
A replay and 2 inches for beating #6
Worley devolopment till the injury?
Palrady?
Team attitude?
Recuiting?

Just off the top of my mind.
It was not a good year but there are positive signs.
Maybe not enough for some( me included ) but let's at least be honest about the situation.

I said on field so I wasn't talking about recruiting.

Neal would have already been over 1,000 if our plays didn't take 3 seconds to develop. I'm all about being honest. Almost half of our rushing yards came against OVC, MAC, & Sunbelt teams or in garbage time in a blowout against 2nd & 3rd string defenses. It's there in black and white if anyone wants to look.

Beating USCe was one of the few (or "little" as I think I put it) positive things from this year.

Worley didn't develop much, imo, but he didn't necessarily regress.

The GA game looks better than it is. We were playing their 3rd string and still couldn't stop a a freshman and poor man's Mike Alstott at RB after their studs went down. Even Murray looked like RGIII pre knee surgery running the ball.

Palardy's turn around has been amazing. He'll not kick FGs unless in an emergency situation, but he's played himself into having a shot at being an NFL punter this year. However, he's gone & it's hard for me to think that his mental state wouldn't improve dramatically by simply not telling him "don't **** this up" every time he went out to kick a FG like Dooley did.

Team attitude: like Tiny guaranteeing that we would let Vandy win? Like not being nasty enough to get 1 yard to ice the game? Like ripping a helmet off an opposing player that cost us the GA game as much as anything? I get what you are trying to say. I do. But I think the team attitude has been as much about lip service instead of proof of a culture change.

Not trying to be a smart alec with any of that, but that's as honest as I can be.