Bashing needs to stop

[KBVol]

Trying to hold a staff accountable?
Who on Volnation has that authority?

No, it's sad mindless *****ing and name calling at this point with very little discussion of football.

VolNation = fan base. Fan base = tickets sold / butts in Neyland Stadium. Sold tickets= Athletic Department revenue.

I obviously know that no one from VolNation is walking into Hart's or Jones' office demanding accountability, but I guarantee you someone(s) is keeping tabs on the pulse of the fan base. Ever notice how Jones and other coaches are constantly calling their fans " the best, most passionate fans in the country"? Its not by accident... they're trying to placate and stay in good graces with the guys who ultimately give the money that winds up feeding his family and funding his 401k. It's the way it works.

Yes, there is plenty of irrational *****ing and moaning in here. There's also plenty legitimate discussions and arguments about the state of the program, the performance of the staff, the team, and yes.... football. And a lot of it is necessary on some level in an effort to demand excellence within the program. This isn't Duke where nobody gives two Shiites about the program and the coach can have as many losing seasons as he wants and nobody's gonna say a word.

 

[MedicT]

You seem to have an incredibly inflated sense of how much influence the majority of the fan base has in coaching changes. If the amount of credit given to the UT fan base for their understanding of the state of the program has anything to do with a head coach setting his goals for the season, then maybe we are farther in the hole than I realized.

If stating the simple fact that the head coach failed to meet the very average standard of six wins means you are delusional and living in the nineties, then maybe we should redefine the term delusional.

I have now paid for the privilege of watching four different head coaches lead the Volunteers through the T, and through the ups and downs, I can tell you that the most heartbreaking moments as a fan for me have been watching Phil Fulmer's press conference, and watching him carried off the field after his last game. Butch Jones may very well lead this program back to where we all hope, but year one will conclude with unmet goals. Here's to hoping our top line goals of incremental growth will lead to meeting our bottom line goals of winning more football games in years to come.

I have now paid for the priviledge of watching 7 head coaches and personally met all but the last 3. As if that mattered because this thread isn't about you or I. Also as a side note, I could tell you which one of those 4 coaches expressed the best outlook and sense of pride in UT but that has been covered in countless other posts and threads. You seem to want to reduce the game into a business model "bottom line" and perhaps that is the only way many can view it. Having played the game, I will tell you that so many intangibles go into a winning team that nothing in the business world compares. I wish it were as simple as a mathmatical model of business growth. There is no linear growth for this endeavor. The fans, although unlikely to happen, would be much better off if they could only realize that ups and many downs are still to come until anyone is satisfied. It doesn't matter who we hire or fire, we will go through the process or the alternative is to remain stagnant in last place.

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

I have now paid for the priviledge of watching 7 head coaches and personally met all but the last 3. As if that mattered because this thread isn't about you or I. Also as a side note, I could tell you which one of those 5 coaches expressed the best outlook and sense of pride in UT but that has been covered in countless other posts and threads. You seem to want to reduce the game into a business model "bottom line" and perhaps that is the only way many can view it. Having played the game, I will tell you that so many intangibles go into a winning team that nothing in the business world compares. I wish it were as simple as a mathmatical model of business growth. There is no linear growth for this endeavor. The fans, although unlikely to happen, would be much better off if they could only realize that ups and many downs are still to come until anyone is satisfied. It doesn't matter who we hire or fire, we will go through the process or the alternative is to remain stagnant in last place.

You win. I'm converted. You have made me see the err of my ways. If only I had played the game. How could I question someone who has actually PLAYED THE GAME. I mean, one time during the Madden Challenge I hit the circle button right when this ...... well, nevermind. My accolades pale in comparison to someone who could probably throw it over those mountains back when his team went to state. The sample size is too small. Everyone should get year zero. This has me rethinking everything. I thought Obamacare was a terrible scheme, but since this is the first open enrollment season in which it has been available, clearly the sample size is too small.Maybe this whole thing will work out after all Medic. Oh, and on a side note, there is one small analagous scenario between football and the business realm. If you subtract the little number from the big number, you know who is winning. I'm sure you knew that though, because after all, you shook Sinatra's hand.

 

[MedicT]

You win. I'm converted. You have made me see the err of my ways. If only I had played the game. How could I question someone who has actually PLAYED THE GAME. I mean, one time during the Madden Challenge I hit the circle button right when this ...... well, nevermind. My accolades pale in comparison to someone who could probably throw it over those mountains back when his team went to state. The sample size is too small. Everyone should get year zero. This has me rethinking everything. I thought Obamacare was a terrible scheme, but since this is the first open enrollment season in which it has been available, clearly the sample size is too small.Maybe this whole thing will work out after all Medic. Oh, and on a side note, there is one small analagous scenario between football and the business realm. If you subtract the little number from the big number, you know who is winning. I'm sure you knew that though, because after all, you shook Sinatra's hand.

Throw the ball over the mountain? No....Knocked the living Hades out of the one trying to many times though.

Sinatra? Nope....not a fan.

 

[G0V0LS33]

People want to look at the past and where we are now but fail to look at last years game. We had way more talent and got whipped in that game and this year with lesser talent in all honesty should have won. I am as down about not making a bowl once again and losing to Vandy but we have a great class coming in and I feel like the best qb was redshirted. Only time will tell but Feburary looks more positive that it has in YEARS. We're gonna turn this around. Climb down from the ledge and pull for them one more game. BLEED IT! VFL

 

[Pig Skin]

My God if I read about Alabama losing to Louisiana Monroe one more time I will freaking explode. Do you think Alabama fans were happy with that? So we should accept losing to Vanderbilt? CBJ and staff needs to know this really is unacceptable and not a post game catch phrase.

Amen!

Can we be bros?

 

[Pig Skin]

and will continue to do so until this university gets serious about winning football games. Until then we are stuck with 7-5 at the very best

This is the Hart of the matter. Tongue in Cheek not intended. Martin these words.

 

[Pig Skin]

I wish Butch would move on to a fan base that would appreciate him and his staffs efforts.

Ok with me. I'm sure there's many fans that would love to have 4 wins at this point.

 

[Pig Skin]

My view of the season.

We looked as expected early on with a new system. We won when we should have, looked rough in a couple of games UF/USA.

Middle of the season we made some steps with UGA and USCe which you would hope to see.

While we were outmatched against some of the later teams I thought we would compete better with Mizzou and AU. The special teams play (or lack thereof) against AU is inexcusable. Bama is on another level.

Then to Vandy. UT fielded plenty of talent to win the game. Given a week off, the motivation that should have existed (last years beating and this years bowl game), and playing at home UT had no reason to look ill prepared and sloppy. For perception sake, the Vandy and UK games only matter when you lose. Nobody makes a huge deal about beating either.

You would hope to see them finish strong against the teams they can beat at the end of the schedule.

What little talk that is circulating about firing Jones (which is very little) is silly.

I think Jones is gonna have to make some staff changes to remain here long term. The longer that is put off the chances of a long term tenure here diminishes.

You just don't appreciate this staff's efforts. Hater.

 

[Pig Skin]

Yes. Based on talent, UT should have beaten VU by 3 TD's. Excuses have been used ad nauseum for how UT should not have competed with Bama, Auburn, Oregon,... because of "speed and talent". Well, UT has more speed and talent than VU and it ain't real close.

What's the excuse now?

Properly coached, this was a 7 win roster. Six would have been "mediocre". Five wins is underutilization of the talent the roster had anyway you want to slice, dice, or spin it.

Dooley under similar or worse circumstances and facing a very similar schedule won six games, went to a bowl and should have won if not for a fluke call, and almost beat a much BETTER LSU team. He ended up being a terrible coach who didn't know how to coach his talent.



We can't forget. That red herring is thrown out every time someone needs to excuse failure on the part of the staff.

Tell you what. He has one game left against the worst, least talented team in the SEC. This is a team that lost to WKU. If Jones doesn't come up with another "play not to lose" gameplan and blows UK out as he should... then I'll just let it go at "this staff's performance in '13 suggests it isn't the answer but let's wait and see". How's that?

He lays another egg like he has for the last 4 games straight.... deal is off.

I like this guy's moxy.

 

[sjt18]

I agree with you man. The way some the fans are acting I wish Butch would move on to a fan base that would appreciate him and his staffs efforts. Neither him, player , or other coaches deserve this bashing.

You're right. We just don't deserve a winner. How dare we be dissatisfied with a staff that loses 7 or 8 games including 1-3 to teams with less talent? We're awful.

Honestly if we can't be patient we don't deserve a bowl game.

Honestly, if you think losing to Vandy and being blown out 4 times in a single season is "good coaching"... then you don't deserve a bowl game.

 

[Pig Skin]

Replacing this underachieving offensive line won't be a big deal to this offense. Almost any lineman can miss blocks, get beat on a pass rush, or get pushed into the bsckfield.:ermm:

Did a little editing for you.

 

[Pig Skin]

Hmmmmm........

Franklin's first year at Vandy? 6-7

with wins against the likes of mighty Elon and Connecticut but losing to the likes of the Cincinnati Bearcats in the Liberty Bowl.

Dooley's only decent win was against a Butch Jones coached Cincinnati Bearcats team. It was a curb-stomping too. And that's who we hired: Dooley's signature win.

 

[Pig Skin]

Now that's a positive attitude! "Until the LOI's are signed." I wonder what this negavol would thinK if we had no commitments ... IT'S NOT FEBRUARY YET ... UNDERSTAND!

One more time, take a look at the top ten teams we played and match that against the depth we have and I am really amazed we did as well as we did. Right now we simply are not good but that does not mean we are not on the right road back. I think a top 2 COMMITMENT class is a good start in correcting our problems.

37 coaches in four years is not good for any program not to mention the attrition we have suffered because of it. Right now the one thing this program needs is stability which is a hudge factor in recruiting. All you negavols who are calling for firing people really show your ignorance.

As bUTch said to the kickers "poise, relax, poise, relax" and for negavols get a grip on reality.

Now wait, let's see how many people will flame on about the facts above. If you don't like the direction of the program and are miserable then go find another program to support. Bammer is doing well right now!

Jones got killed by Dooley. Flame that fact.

Jones has recruited well. He has had a n amazing influence in the classroom. He has few positives on Saturdays at this point in his UT tenure.

 

[sjt18]

I think Worley getting hurt killed the springboard forward.
Not throwing after 2 ints on what should have been easy throws makes since to me. Burning the other red shirt was the only way to play a different QB, and I think should have happened. The fake FG call was a bad call imo

You don't lose your stomach because the kid throws a couple of picks. You play to win... PERIOD.

Amazing how many people now appreciate Worley (not a shot at you since I don't remember where you stood). Some of us tried to defend the kid when he was playing... and so many others were just sure he "sucked" and either one of the Fr should have been starting instead.

For the "Ferguson is better folk"... the coaches named them co-back ups and has refused to say one was ahead of the other. They are that close. He's not the answer and it is quite apparent now that Worley WAS that much better than the other options.

But for my money... when your Jr QB with a nice arm and SEC experience is so-so... your RS Fr is bad and looks unprepared... your true Fr is bad and is not coached up... When do you say "Wait a minute... all of these guys can't stink... what is the OC/QB coach doing?"

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Dooley's only decent win was against a Butch Jones coached Cincinnati Bearcats team. It was a curb-stomping too. And that's who we hired: Dooley's signature win.

Butch beat the #11 ranked team in the country. So if we were to hire Spurrier, would you say all we did was hire Butchs signature win? Stupid post on your part. How about we give Butch the offensive talent Dooley did last year and then make some comparisons?

My ignore list is growing by the day.

 

[Pig Skin]

This is exactly how I feel.

I am not ready to run CBJ out of town. I believe it is possible for him to do well. I have repeatedly posted in his defense, and I cannot turn on him now. He has already done a number of things that I wholeheartedly approve of. He has - or at least had - restored a great deal of the energy and swagger of the Vol fan base.

Plus, It wouldn't matter if I was against him. He's going to be the coach for the next 4-5 years as along as he doesn't get caught cheating or some grand scandal happens.

But, Saturday's game SERIOUSLY damaged my confidence in the staff. If you look at the circumstances and are willing to simply dismiss that loss to whatever inability you see in the players, you aren't being fair to them or yourself as a fan.

Vandy showed up as a well-coached but marginally talented team - in our house -and then proceeded to make every mistake a team needs to make to lose a football game. For the other loses this year, the other team took the victory from us (except maybe Fla to some degree) but in this game, it was willingly given to them by us.

Without regard to what the coaches stated afterward, the team was flat, tentative and displayed a general sense of unpreparedness. It is absolutely reasonable to attribute that to the coaching staff. Remember that the season is three months in, a lot of the "newness" of things ought to have sunk in by now.

There's a fine line between "bashing" and criticism, and it's not the same for everyone. So, whatever you call it, it is much deserved, IMO.

The most disheartening thing of all for me is that after yet another season, I have no more confidence that the program is returning to some level of excellence. I am optimistic by nature, but confidence comes from evidence. This season, the evidence has fallen on both sides of the scale fairly equally. CBJ has done some great things, and he has done many other things poorly. So, I find myself another year passed with them same skeptical "wait and see" attitude I had the day they walked Dooley out the door.

I may not totally agree with all of your post, but there much truth in it.

 

[Pig Skin]

Telling others what to do, what not to do and how not to do it needs to stop, too. People are entitled to their opinions and are free to express them on a public forum designated for that very purpose.

Lots of moms up in here for sure.

 

[Pig Skin]

We "stole" the coach Colorado wanted. Let that sink in.

We used to compete with USC for coaches. Now we pillow fight Colorado for the one they want.

This has been self inflicted dumpster fire after dumpster fire.

.

 

[Pig Skin]

Get over yourself reverend. Nobody is listening to the sermon. "We as ... a fanbase let the team down for their entire collegiate careers with substandard coaching..." Listen to the garbage. How exactly is it possible for a fanbase to let a team down with substandard coaching? Please account for this statement before posting more senseless rubbish. As members of the fanbase, my wife and I have travelled to game after game, leaving our voices in the stadium for days afterward. That's about all we as fans are responsible for. So no Sparky, the fanbase did not let anyone down with substandard coaching. The substandard coaches did that. Simply put, Butch Jones evaluated the talent, depth, coaching staff, speed, and discipline of this team. He knew how many underclassmen were on the two deep, and how many ranked opponents were on the schedule. Yes Auburn and Mizzou were better than expexted, but UF and UGA were decimated with injury. After all of this careful evaluation, Butch Jones, not the fan base, set the goal at six wins. He failed to achieve his goal. That doesn't make him a bad coach, but it also doesn't make me a negative fan. It makes him a coach who failed to meet the criteria he set before and during the season, and it makes me a fan who still supports the team while hoping the head coach meets his goals starting this offseason and next year.

Fans win/lose ballgames. No doubt about it.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Did some of us really think that we were going to blow out Vandy? Did all of the neganerds that like to "keep it real" actually have higher expectations for a team with our current talent level when they have been saying we were a 5-7 team this entire time? How about we don't jump ship on our first year coach who already beat a #11 team this year, almost upset a #6 ranked team, and has coached through pretty much the hardest schedule I have ever seen. I am not saying that Butch is definitely the answer, but I am saying that some of the back seat athletic directors need to give the man some time to build our program. How easy it is for people to forget that Saban once lost to UL Monroe

Heck if we had Worley we probably would have blown out Vandy. Vandy sucks and did everything they could to give the game to Tennessee.

 

[Pig Skin]

The people that bash can't stop bashing. That is because it is their character. The only way that the bashing will stop is when everything is perfect. Then the basher's instincts will not be triggered to bash.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Dr. Phil.

 

[Pig Skin]

This seems to be a "personal thing" with our fans, they seem to be missing the so called bragging rights...sure its been gone but its a time to be humble, its all a cycle and soon to return.

Support your coaches and players because they picked TENNESSEE

Hitler picked Germany. He was Austrian ya know.

See, I can make ridiculous statements too.

 

[Pig Skin]

I have now paid for the priviledge of watching 7 head coaches and personally met all but the last 3. As if that mattered because this thread isn't about you or I. Also as a side note, I could tell you which one of those 4 coaches expressed the best outlook and sense of pride in UT but that has been covered in countless other posts and threads. You seem to want to reduce the game into a business model "bottom line" and perhaps that is the only way many can view it. Having played the game, I will tell you that so many intangibles go into a winning team that nothing in the business world compares. I wish it were as simple as a mathmatical model of business growth. There is no linear growth for this endeavor. The fans, although unlikely to happen, would be much better off if they could only realize that ups and many downs are still to come until anyone is satisfied. It doesn't matter who we hire or fire, we will go through the process or the alternative is to remain stagnant in last place.

Subtle "I'm somebody" post if you ask me.

 

[sjt18]

One more time, take a look at the top ten teams we played and match that against the depth we have and I am really amazed we did as well as we did.

Wait a minute. You are amazed that Jones did not perform better than Dooley did in similar circumstances? You amazed that Jones did "as well" as losing by 28+ pts 4 times in a single season for the first time in at least 50 years? You are amazed at the great job of coaching it took to lose to Auburn by the greatest margin...ever in the series? You are really and truly impressed by a staff that gave up the most points any UT team has in 100 years?

Right now we simply are not good but that does not mean we are not on the right road back.

Right now this is a team that should have beaten Vandy and should NOT have been blown out by Auburn or Mizzou in the fashion they were. NOTHING about the last 4 games suggests this program is on the right road back. What tangible improvements in the team can you cite that indicate that the program is on the right road back?

I think a top 2 COMMITMENT class is a good start in correcting our problems.

Only if they are coached and coached up better than this first team was.

All you negavols who are calling for firing people really show your ignorance.

Who is calling for his firing... so who is ignorant?

Now wait, let's see how many people will flame on about the facts above. If you don't like the direction of the program and are miserable then go find another program to support. Bammer is doing well right now!

I see opinions and blind optimism that have little to do with facts. We support this team more than you do. We are demanding that it gets good coaching. You're accepting poor coaching that will not make the team betteer and turning a blind eye.